41 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

so i was playing around with my builds an i noticed something,
Small Lasers(all types(normal, ER, Pulse)) don't get too much love,

so i came up with a viable way to enhance their Use,
my plan is very simple and in general easy to execute,
what i think it needs is a slight Range Buff to increase its use,

as it sits right now,........Damage,...Heat,...Burn,...recharge,...Range,...Max Range,...
(InterSphere)
Small Pulse Laser,...........3.4..........2.4.....0.50........2.25..........100............200..
Small Laser,......................3.............2.......0.75........2.25..........100............200...
Medium Pulse Laser,.........6...........4.6.......0.6..........3.............220............440...
Medium Laser,...................5............4..........1............3.............270............540...
Large Pulse Laser,.........10.6..........8.........0.6........3.25..........350............700..
Large Laser,......................9............7..........1..........3.25..........450............900..
ER Large Laser,................9.............8.......1.25.......3.25..........675............1350..
(Clan)
Small Pulse Laser,...........4.4..........3.4......0.75.......2.25..........150.............300..
ER Small Laser,................4.............3..........1..........2.25..........150.............300...
Medium Pulse Laser,.......7.4............6.......0.85..........3.............330............660...
ER Medium Laser,............7..............6.......1.25..........3.............400............800...
Large Pulse Laser,.........11.6...........9........1.2.........3.25..........525...........1050..
ER Large Laser,..............11............10.......1.6.........3.25..........740...........1480..


as you can see Medium lasers and Large Pulse sync very well, for IS and Clan,
in burn time, recharge time and even in the case of range it seems very balanced,

but when you look at Small lasers and Medium Pulse they kinda sync very well,
in burn time, recharge time, but when if comes to range it seems very imbalanced,

Balanced Range Overlap and good sweet spot,(InterShpere)
Medium Laser.................270------------------------------540
Large Pulse Laser..........................350------------------------------700
Balanced Range Overlap and good sweet spot,(Clan)
ER Medium Laser................400----------------------------------------800
Large Pulse Laser..............................525--------------------------------------------------1050

Imbalanced Range Overlap and no sweet spot,(InterShpere)
Small Laser...............100--------------------200
Medium Pulse Laser.....................................220--------------------440
Imbalanced Range Overlap and no sweet spot,(Clan)
ER Small Laser..............150-------------------------300
Medium Pulse Laser...............................................330-------------------------660

as it sits the when the Medium Pulse is at optimum range,
the small laser are out of range, there is no weapon overlap,


what i propose it to increase the range for all small lasers by 50m, 100m Max,
i feel this will allow for a more balanced and worth wail Small laser experience,

New balanced Range Overlap and good sweet spot,(InterShpere)
Small Laser...............150-----------------------------------300
Medium Pulse Laser.....................................220--------------------440
New balanced Range Overlap and good sweet spot,(Clan)
ER Small Laser................200---------------------------------------400
Medium Pulse Laser...............................................330-------------------------660


this change will allow for small lasers(all types) to have greater use,
and should also enhance light play, as they will benefit the most from this change,
as it stands with the light Que usually holds at 10-15%, most days,
i feel this will help raise lights and perhaps medium usage,


Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Spelling
Edit2- Light comments,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 14 October 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[Oogalook]

I've always liked the slightly higher DPS per ton of the Small versions of each laser type, but indeed the lack of reach is crippling. 150 meters sounds indeed like a reasonable range to have, because the average range of a brawl seems to be around 150 meters anyway. At that distance, current smalls only deal half damage- it's severely frustrating!

[El Bandito]

SL currently goes well with machinegun range. I really wouldn't worry about it being underpowered. Perhaps extend the max range to 240 to make it even with the MG.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 October 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Clan smalls are inefficient when it comes to heat management "per ton", but with fairly decent DPS boost.

T_____D_H_R___DUR__DPS_HPS__MxR__CD
ERML--7--6--400--1.25----1.65---1.41----800----3.0
ERSL_-4--3--150--1.00----1.29---0.92----300----2.25

Ton for Ton CMLx1 vs CSLx2 has
+1 base Damage
= base heat
Not even half the range
20% shorter duration
2.58 DPS (roughly 52% gain?)
1.84 HPS ( roughly 26% hotter?)

So CERSL offers reasonably higher damage per second, but will make you overheat quicker than 1 CERML, so no real advantage here considering how close you have to be to use that advantage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clan pulses

T_______D___H__R___DUR__DPS_HPS__MxR__CD
ERMPL---7.4---6----330--0.85----1.92---1.56----660----3.0
ERSPL_--4.4--3.4--150--0.75----1.47---1.13----300----2.25

Ton for Ton CMPLx1 vs CSPLx2
+1.4 base damage
+0.8 base heat
a little less than half range
10% shorter duration
2.94 DPS (roughly 51% gain?)
2.26 HPS (roughly 32% hotter?)

CSPL offers 50% more dps than 1 CMPL, but will make you overheat quicker, also since range is the same for CSPL&CSL there isn't much advantage considering how close you need to get.

Both IS and Clan smalls could do with small range buffs and less heat IMO.

Considering that you have to be very very close to utilize that DPS advantage, SRMs/standard ML/CML/MPL/CMPL and AC's will do it better on range alone.

Range almost always wins battles, and while DPS might look good, you're going to be overheating quicker too and probably get beat up pretty good trying to get in that close.

My math on the % gains might be off a little, I'm terrible with percentages

[Kilo 40]

clan small lasers were great until they got nerfed into the ground.

[Mcgral18]

You know, we could turn back the nerfs that made it 200% heat.

We don't need to fear the Slunchback. Or the Lunchback. Or the WubBack.

Every small and medium laser in the game has a heat nerf, ranging from 115% (isMPL) to 200% heat (isSL). Rolling those back would be a nice thing to help them.

[Pjwned]

I pretty much never use small lasers because their range is so bad, I know that 0.5 ton lasers are not supposed to have much reach but it is seriously pitiful.

Mcgral18, on 15 October 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

You know, we could turn back the nerfs that made it 200% heat.

We don't need to fear the Slunchback. Or the Lunchback. Or the WubBack.

Every small and medium laser in the game has a heat nerf, ranging from 115% (isMPL) to 200% heat (isSL). Rolling those back would be a nice thing to help them.

This also needs to happen as well.

[Curccu]

+ Ridiculous small laser ghost heat... which is linked to medium lasers (Clans)
no point having small weight, small damage weapons if you cannot boat them well (alpha)... unless you want to face tank with the mech.

[SaltBeef]

Clan small lasers were the 1st thing to get the NERFAGE!
The NOVA was effective with 12 of them that was why they got nerf-hammered.

Edited by SaltBeef, 15 October 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Kilo 40]

actually what bothers me about the clan small/med laser nerfs, is they they also effectively nerfed clan heatsinks as well.

Cat C1 with double heat sinks(10 internal), 2 lrm15s, and 4 ML has a heat efficiency of 31%.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...187e95947ec5912

adding 2 double heat sinks raises the efficiency to 36%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...de4d70f61ed6b49


Now a timber wolf with the same load out 2 lrm15s, 4 med lasers...but...15 internal heat sinks has 32% efficiency

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1f731d660647c02

add on two more heat sinks and it only increases to 35%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8398c939c2c0679

AND THAT'S WITH 17 OF THE "SUPERIOR" CLAN HEAT SINKS!


I'm fine with clan weapons getting nerfed to make them more balanced with IS, But this makes using extra heat sinks almost worthless unless you only use one or two laser and completely tank up on heat sinks.

If clan lasers are going to stay this hot, I think they should buff heat sinks some.

[PACoFist]

There are lots of weapons that could really need some love. There is a reason almost everybody uses the same weapons.

Flamers, Small Lasers and SPL are useless, the way they are right now.

AC2 and ErPPC are not completely useless, but I rarely see them on the battlefield. Because there are alternatives that are just better.

[STEF_]

Flamers, sl, spl are intended to be accessory weapons, not main.

Unless you'd want to build free-hardpoint boats. Anyone remember strider or shadowcat from mw3?

I think they are fine as we have now.

Mwo weaponry reflects quite well BT.... except the weird ppc speed.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

SL currently goes well with machinegun range. I really would worry about it being underpowered. Perhaps extend the max range to 240 to make it even with the MG.

That's almost Medium Laser range!?!

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 October 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

That's almost Medium Laser range!?!

is it good or bad? that SL max range gets close to ML range?

[Joseph Mallan]

To my salty old man way of thinking, Its terribad.

Why not just make all lasers almost large lasers so they would all be useful.

No A small laser MG, SRM2, LRM5 are meant to be paper cut weapons. Dangerous in groups insignificant when solo.

[Tahribator]

I think the main problem is range. 100m is such an insufficient range that most of the time you just can't apply damage, so your tiny damage is reduced even more. I really loved what they did with the C-ERSL with its initial range of 220m, it was actually a very useful alternative to the C-ERML. Then it got nerfed two times and became pretty much irrelevant again.

What they should have done was to buff ERSL closer to C-ERSL. Bump ERSL range to 180m and C-ERSL back to 220m and they will be used again.

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 October 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

Flamers, sl, spl are intended to be accessory weapons, not main.

Maybe, if you ignore lights completely(looking at your signature, that's likely). Pretty much the only viable weapons for lights are MLs, MGs and smaller SRMs at the moment. They lack build variety and coincidentally we have these three useless weapons sitting around, unused. Why not make them viable and greatly enhance the arsenal of lights?

Edited by Tahribator, 15 October 2014 - 04:48 AM.

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 October 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

To my salty old man way of thinking, Its terribad.

Why not just make all lasers almost large lasers so they would all be useful.

No A small laser MG, SRM2, LRM5 are meant to be paper cut weapons. Dangerous in groups insignificant when solo.

but ML would still have over 2x range compared to that proposed SL range upgrade
ML has 60% of range of LL
SL has only 37% of range of ML
with that upgrade it would go up to insanely huge 44%
even with 160m range SL would have little less than 60% of ML range

[STEF_]

Tahribator, on 15 October 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

I think the main problem is range. 100m is such an insufficient range that most of the time you just can't apply damage, so your tiny damage is reduced even more. I really loved what they did with the C-ERSL with **** initial range of 220m, it was actually a very useful alternative to the C-ERML. Then it got nerfed two times and became pretty much irrelevant again.

What they should have done was to buff ERSL closer to C-ERSL. Bump ERSL range to 180m and C-ERSL back to 220m and they will be used again.



Maybe, if you ignore lights completely(looking at your signature, that's likely). Pretty much the only viable weapons for lights are MLs, MGs and smaller SRMs at the moment. They lack build variety and coincidentally we have these three useless weapons sitting around, unused. Why not make them viable and greatly enhance the arsenal of lights?

I suck as light pilot, indeed.
Anyway, I think Ml and mpl are more effective than small version even if small version ones would be enhanced. And this in light mechs too.
So if a light mech has energy hardpoint, a medium or LL it would be a fav weapon anyway, leaving sl and spl as secondary.
Unless you could use them for thier better dps, but, if so, you must be able to boat them.
But, this is the reason why sl and spl have been nerfed to death.

[Glythe]

Mcgral18, on 15 October 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

You know, we could turn back the nerfs that made it 200% heat.

We don't need to fear the Slunchback. Or the Lunchback. Or the WubBack.

Every small and medium laser in the game has a heat nerf, ranging from 115% (isMPL) to 200% heat (isSL). Rolling those back would be a nice thing to help them.

I'll add to this and say that ML also got unfairly nerfed with too much heat.

/thread

[That Dawg]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 October 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

so i was playing around with my builds an i noticed something,
Small Lasers(all types(normal, ER, Pulse)) don't get too much love,

I suppose we could buff them, but then wouldn't they called "medium" lasers?