41 replies to this topic

[Bigbacon]

i think they should at least get machine gun range or swap them. make SL 120 and MG 100

[Screech]

I would rather we simply went back to the TT values for small and medium lasers.

[Karl Streiger]

Screech, on 15 October 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

I would rather we simply went back to the TT values for small and medium lasers.

including the increased damage drop off - those weapons should have? With max range 6 times the effective range?

For example:
Small Laser 30m - 180m
Medium Laser 90-540m
Gauss 210m-1260m

[Greenjulius]

I'm Greenjulius, and I endorse this buff.

Seriously though, small lasers for both IS and Clan are under ranged, and in the case of Clan, too hot. Small lasers are unlikely to displace mediums for efficiency, but they are necessary for sub 30 ton lights in many cases. Locusts especially need them, but the ranges are so low, they are nearly worthless. I'm sure the Mist Lynx will have builds as well that will benefit from the Clan smalls.

Edited by Greenjulius, 15 October 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

ER SL were useful when they came out. For some reason they had to get nerfed back down to equally as useless as the other small lasers.

[FupDup]

IS SL:
Reduce heat to 1
Reduce cooldown by 0.25 seconds (new cooldown of 2.00s ["effective cooldown" of 2.75s due to beam duration], aka 1.09 DPS and 0.36 heat per second)

Outcome: Drastically cooler than the ML while having similar DPS, making it more economical as a self-defense weapon in close range. Its weakness would still be a very short range.


Clan ERSL:
Rollback all three nerfs (heat, range, damage)

Outcome: Much more economical in close quarters than the CERML, making it the better dedicated brawling weapon. The ERML would still be more widely used due to its range of course, but the ERSL would now have a distinctive niche compared to it.

Edited by FupDup, 15 October 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 October 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

That's almost Medium Laser range!?!

How? MLas max range is 540 meters--over twice as long as what I am proposing to the SLas.

At 200 range that SLas is going to deal 1 damage.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 October 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Mavairo]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 October 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

To my salty old man way of thinking, Its terribad.

Why not just make all lasers almost large lasers so they would all be useful.

No A small laser MG, SRM2, LRM5 are meant to be paper cut weapons. Dangerous in groups insignificant when solo.

Does anyone actually fear ANY amount of small lasers now? I sure don't.

SL sucking like a woman of ill repute in a donkey show is one of the many reasons mechs like the Locust are so terrible.

SL need the heat penalty completely removed from them. With as pitiful as the range and damage is they should be damn near Zero Heat weapons.

Edited by Mavairo, 15 October 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 October 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

Flamers, sl, spl are intended to be accessory weapons, not main.

Unless you'd want to build free-hardpoint boats. Anyone remember strider or shadowcat from mw3?

I think they are fine as we have now.

Mwo weaponry reflects quite well BT.... except the weird ppc speed.

2 SLs should match, or be better than a ML at 90M.

That is not the case. Same heat, less range, 1 extra damage.

The ERSL at launch at least had 3 extra damage, shorter burn and less heat. Now it is also worthless in comparison.

Joseph Mallan, on 15 October 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

That's almost Medium Laser range!?!

By the logic of 2x range, MLs have 540M range, so there's still a fairly large difference. 120 optimal range, a 20/30M extension.

Karl Streiger, on 15 October 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

including the increased damage drop off - those weapons should have? With max range 6 times the effective range?

For example:
Small Laser 30m - 180m
Medium Laser 90-540m
Gauss 210m-1260m

TT SL stats would be 1 heat (half of MWOs) 90M. Damage could use a buff.

At 1 heat, 4 damage, 90/100M range you might consider taking a pair over MLs, since you then get a 3 damage advantage for nearly no heat; at less than half the range.

A true risk/reward, rather than much risk no reward.

[STEF_]

Mcgral18, on 15 October 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

2 SLs should match, or be better than a ML at 90M.

That is not the case. Same heat, less range, 1 extra damage.

The ERSL at launch at least had 3 extra damage, shorter burn and less heat. Now it is also worthless in comparison.



By the logic of 2x range, MLs have 540M range, so there's still a fairly large difference. 120 optimal range, a 20/30M extension.



TT SL stats would be 1 heat (half of MWOs) 90M. Damage could use a buff.

At 1 heat, 4 damage, 90/100M range you might consider taking a pair over MLs, since you then get a 3 damage advantage for nearly no heat; at less than half the range.

A true risk/reward, rather than much risk no reward.

Yes, in theory, but, here in mwo, there is the so-called "convergence/pinpoint affairs".
So it makes sense to nerf sl.
If you try a 12sl Nova in TT, it doesn't wreck like here in MWO.
PGI doesn't like boats in general for that reason, but that said, I don't understand why they don't try to solve this "old" problem.

Anyway, if sl and spl will be buffed, I'm happy to ride my nova again

[Bront]

IS Smalls getting a range buff to 120/240 and Clan Smalls range buff to 180/360 wouldn't bother me at all.

Roll back IS and Clan small heat by .5 I think would also make a huge difference.

[Karl Streiger]

I have 6 Small Laser on my Battlemaster 1G also have multiple Small lasers on one of my Thunderbolts.

They work great - as back up - heat/damage/range is acceptable - if i need them. Until i need them i have decent long range weapons.
So if you think the 12 Small laser nova is crap - what about a 2 ER-Large Laser and 8 Small Laser Nova.

The small laser was never supposed to be a primary weapon, nor was the medium laser....

IMHO both weapon types Small as well as the Medium are even currently better as they are supposed to be for the given weight (OK the Clan ER-Lasers were always off the chart - thx to FASA for inventing crap)

[Y E O N N E]

Oogalook, on 14 October 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

I've always liked the slightly higher DPS per ton of the Small versions of each laser type, but indeed the lack of reach is crippling. 150 meters sounds indeed like a reasonable range to have, because the average range of a brawl seems to be around 150 meters anyway. At that distance, current smalls only deal half damage- it's severely frustrating!

Higher DPS per ton, but not per gun. In any case where you can boat Smalls, you can also boat Mediums. Mediums have a greater DPS than Smalls. Having two racks, one with Smalls and one with Mediums, the one with Mediums will out-damage the one with Smalls, with one exception:

The Mediums might overheat.

So you might be able to get more total damage in before heat soak with Smalls than you would with Mediums. That, and the faster re-fire being more forgiving against fast targets, are the only strengths of Small Lasers.

[Mcgral18]

Have you tried Twitter?

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

SL currently goes well with machinegun range. I really wouldn't worry about it being underpowered. Perhaps extend the max range to 240 to make it even with the MG.

point of the SLaser is not so much to be "useful" as to be that gun that you fit when you got no room for anything else.

When they get "too useful" you end up with annoying crap like SLaser boating.

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

point of the SLaser is not so much to be "useful" as to be that gun that you fit when you got no room for anything else.

When they get "too useful" you end up with annoying crap like SLaser boating.

Partyback?

[101011]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

point of the SLaser is not so much to be "useful" as to be that gun that you fit when you got no room for anything else.

When they get "too useful" you end up with annoying crap like SLaser boating.

There is absolutely no purpose in mounting a single small laser in a 'Mech, though. This kind of thinking baffles me. Why is the weapon even in the game if it is not meant to be useful?

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 25 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

There is absolutely no purpose in mounting a single small laser in a 'Mech, though. This kind of thinking baffles me. Why is the weapon even in the game if it is not meant to be useful?

Because the game translates badly to FPS.

It barely made sense with 3025 tech. But seriously in what world where a mech with a max range of 250m is considered a "good viable build"?

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 25 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

There is absolutely no purpose in mounting a single small laser in a 'Mech, though. This kind of thinking baffles me. Why is the weapon even in the game if it is not meant to be useful?

It should be used in mech like the Locust and stuff. The problem to me, is like back in CB, when Awesome were running around with 7 MLasers. Boating small crap was better than using big guns. Thats just dumb. Small guns should be ideal for...small mechs. But bigger mechs should want room and use of bigger guns....not boating huge amounts of tiny guns.

6 Small laser Locust makes sense....though one should want 1 M or L Laser if possible, for range. Mechs weighing 50 + tons boating them? It's just ridiculous. They should only be "attractive" to mechs that can't mount bigger stuff, but move fast enough to use them. Which is why I am not a fan of range boost. Would rather see shorter beam duration, higher RoF, etc.

[terrycloth]

Yeah, keeping them at ridiculously short range but giving them lower heat puts them in the same category as machine guns -- weapons you can keep firing when you're trapped close to someone and at high heat.