333 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Bront, on 21 October 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

The issue is not just the grind for 1 mech, but that you need to grind 3 mechs at least to unlock their potential (even if you only want one), and that you're hiding some of the better gameplay (playing in your custom kitted out mech), behind an amazing amount of grind, as well as many of the easy monetization features are based on folks wanting to play Pokemech, where as the game is setup to be more monetized by grind reduction, at prices that are large enough to give pause to new players.

Bront... we're talking up a tree.

Folks refuse to appreciate the fact that the entire MW:O game minus premium content (which is not necessary to play) is open and available to everyone give they invest the requisite time into the game...

As players we have four paths: a.) Grind and grind some more and eventually we obtain the necessary c-bills to finance what we want. b.) Invest in premium time and lessen that grind. c.) Invest in a hero and lessen that grind. d.) Invest in premium and a hero and substantially lessen that grind.... or e.) Flat out buy the content one wants and bypass the whole grind.

Problem is a disproportionate number of players think the path from "a" to "e" is too large and to big an imposition to, as most would qualify "properly enjoy the game"...

Personally I think folks are struggling with instant gratification issues... Well, that and the fact that the economy being what it is, money has greater value than time now days.

[Almond Brown]

Rushin Roulette, on 16 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

stuff

Making blanket assumptions about players and their C-Bill generating and spending habits is make-no (sense) at best and not very intelligent at worse. So take your own advice. Just leave it alone and let PGI worry about it. They seem to be doing OK with it as is. Unless you can provide some hard numbers showing different?

[Ozric]

I didn't want to re-post this again, but several people need to watch it apparently to get their ideas about F2P business models straightened out.

[SpeedingBus]

Almond Brown, on 21 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Making blanket assumptions about players and their C-Bill generating and spending habits is make-no (sense) at best and not very intelligent at worse. So take your own advice. Just leave it alone and let PGI worry about it. They seem to be doing OK with it as is. Unless you can provide some hard numbers showing different?

They only reason PGI hasn't gone belly up is love of mechwarrior franchise by players and fact there isn't really any mech competition to have other people leave for and no hawken doesn't count in my books. So just because there alive now with there current scandalous prices doesn't mean it will last for long.

[Mothykins]

New earning model bears investigation.

Looks good. Lets see how it plays out.

[Bront]

Almond Brown, on 21 October 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

For someone who said they would not make stuff up, that is a lot of made up stuff. You cannot BUY a MB with c-bills. Thus, if you BUY a Mech for C-Bills you need a MB. Thus you have to spend MC.

How many Mechs a players buys with c-bills is determined strictly one a player by player basis, despite how much c-bills they have to earn to fulfill that need.

If earning were static, then the number of 30% may be accurate, but given each game generates it own separate payout, that 30% number was pulled for a ******, and fit the need of the whiners at that time. There was no real hard PGI based #'s.

They simply stated that they thought "we" were generating to much... that was all.

1) I never said you could by a mechbay for CBills I said you have to buy mechbays for CBill mechs.

2) CBill income was nerfed around 30% shortly after 12v12 matches started in the middle of 2013. It's not a hard number, but a soft number compiled by numerous sources. The flat numbers were nerfed I think almost 50% on the theory you could earn them back with 4 more mechs on the field.

Edited by Bront, 21 October 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Almond Brown, on 21 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Stuff

Right.. so your only contribution to a fan made thread titled "Cbill earnings are out of line: The cost of a Mech" is to moan around over what fans of the game are and saying everything is perfect and to leave it to PGI when all we are doing is brainstorming and making suggestions...

White knights are pretty common around here (I know because I could be considered one between my trolling posts)... but the brown nosed knight seems to be a new one.

[Pygar]

Especially nowdays with how many consumable modules I tend to use, and with how many other modules (including weapon modules) I am trying to save up for... I would vote for a raise in income in a heartbeat- The OP's previously mentioned "average income" of 80k-120k Cbills per match (which is pretty much my average lately) is really slow money even trying to save up for modules that cost 3-6 million a pop, let alone trying to save up for 3 mechs and the spare parts it takes to try and master a chassis.

Edited by Pygar, 21 October 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Bront]

DaZur, on 21 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Bront... we're talking up a tree.

Folks refuse to appreciate the fact that the entire MW:O game minus premium content (which is not necessary to play) is open and available to everyone give they invest the requisite time into the game...

As players we have four paths: a.) Grind and grind some more and eventually we obtain the necessary c-bills to finance what we want. b.) Invest in premium time and lessen that grind. c.) Invest in a hero and lessen that grind. d.) Invest in premium and a hero and substantially lessen that grind.... or e.) Flat out buy the content one wants and bypass the whole grind.

Problem is a disproportionate number of players think the path from "a" to "e" is too large and to big an imposition to, as most would qualify "properly enjoy the game"...

Personally I think folks are struggling with instant gratification issues... Well, that and the fact that the economy being what it is, money has greater value than time now days.

That 5 options

Your description is true if all you talk about is the 4 stock mech bays and no one ever buys colors or cammo. But folks buy mech bays, cammo, and other things, to customize their mechs as well. The more mechs they have, the more likely they are to buy these sorts of things as well. In many ways, the huge grind punishes players who spend on the little things like mech bays, making then want to play less and spend less.

As I've said several times, my contention is that if you reduce the grind, you'll promote folks who want to buy more things for real money as they'll now have the time to grind for them as well as enjoy them, rather than possibly burning them out in the grind and having them leave. The only "free stuff" I advocate is possibly a better way to help a new player own a mech and maybe offering Mechbays as a possible expensive CBill item (different thread for that).

[DaZur]

Bront, on 21 October 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

That 5 options

I used Polish math...

[Kitty Bacon]

I am not trying to be a white knight or anything, but they just updated the rewards system. Should see how much we make per match now over the old system. Who knows, PGI could see that the rewards were not enough as they were and we could be earning more!

[Hades Trooper]

This is why u need money making mechs.

I have a summoner build that on a winning team pulls between 280-380k a match.

I use to get the 120-140k a match, but now with PT and Invasion chassis, i've finally gotten the most i've ever had at once.

35 mill and now that storm crow sale, omg, i'll have money left over to start saving for my Tw's

[Bront]

Kitty Bacon, on 21 October 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

I am not trying to be a white knight or anything, but they just updated the rewards system. Should see how much we make per match now over the old system. Who knows, PGI could see that the rewards were not enough as they were and we could be earning more!

Agreed. I'll monitor my earnings for the next week or so (I'll be leveling up some new mechs, so we'll see). I'm optimistically skeptical, but it looks like it might.

[Almond Brown]

SpeedingBus, on 21 October 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

They only reason PGI hasn't gone belly up is love of mechwarrior franchise by players and fact there isn't really any mech competition to have other people leave for and no hawken doesn't count in my books. So just because there alive now with there current scandalous prices doesn't mean it will last for long.

LOL! "Scandalous". How long did it take you to look that big word up.

[Kitty Bacon]

Bront, on 21 October 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Agreed. I'll monitor my earnings for the next week or so (I'll be leveling up some new mechs, so we'll see). I'm optimistically skeptical, but it looks like it might.

I did my math and I used my narcing Raven 3L for an example. Least, I hope I did. I usually run with 2 LRM boats and keep them covered by ECM and narc targets when I can, but mostly I am spotting with my narc and tag. If I did that and deal no damage to the enemy and managed to take out 2-4 mechs, I can come out with 250-300k on the low side. I want to try it in game and see if I can get rich with my Raven and deal 0 damage to the enemy, just narc and tag XD

[BARBAR0SSA]

SpeedingBus, on 21 October 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

They only reason PGI hasn't gone belly up is love of mechwarrior franchise by players and fact there isn't really any mech competition to have other people leave for and no hawken doesn't count in my books. So just because there alive now with there current scandalous prices doesn't mean it will last for long.

Scandalous prices what? Shadowhawk is 3M Cbills right now, that's around 15 matches to play.
Not to mention if you buy one of the mech packs it saves you a lot of time plus all the extras you get.

10,000 MC prizes on recent tourney, various other tournaments happening for MCs as well.

ArcheAge I leveled via Potions, was great.

However I don't work at McDonald's so that might be why I don't care about prices. But if you're 16, enjoy the f2p + Free mech challenges and just win tournies.

[Almond Brown]

Rushin Roulette, on 21 October 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Right.. so your only contribution to a fan made thread titled "Cbill earnings are out of line: The cost of a Mech" is to moan around over what fans of the game are and saying everything is perfect and to leave it to PGI when all we are doing is brainstorming and making suggestions...

White knights are pretty common around here (I know because I could be considered one between my trolling posts)... but the brown nosed knight seems to be a new one.

And so are the Dark Knights who just won't have it any other way, than their own. Seems a wash. Don't like the pay out, play another. You make it sound as if PGI is forcing you to play MWO and screwing you over for doing so. Being self entitled is much much worse an affliction than any colored nose could ever be.

Sorry to the DK's, that just ain't the way things work. Either Play or Pay. Complaining on here doesn't resolve either.

Patch has some new ways to get more C-Bills. Let's see how long before the DK's don't think that is enough for their "need a FREE fat wallet" metality.

[Shismar]

Dead horse. PGI is locked into their pricing scheme and would not even reconsider if the company failed. They have been throwing away money since the beginning and seriously hampering player base expansion. Since clan mechs arrived this has become obvious with the hilarious MC and CB prices.

Half the price tags and time expenditure + much faster development and EU servers could be the solution. But hey, I am just an economist with specialization on internet economics and game industry experience. No numbers means that's just a guestimate and this is the internets. No more money though from me but I'll keep playing, thanks.

Edit: I do appreciate the two new mechs I get today. At least loyalty seems to be rewarded somewhat better now. Patch almost done, see you on the battle field!

Edited by Shismar, 21 October 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Quxudica]

DaZur, on 21 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Personally I think folks are struggling with instant gratification issues... Well, that and the fact that the economy being what it is, money has greater value than time now days.

Instant gratification? Funny, I remember playing competitive games 10+ years ago that had no bullshit progression treadmill whatsoever and gave everyone access to everything in multiplayer the second they fired up the game. I put far more time into those games than I have in MWO and never got bored.

I wish a mechwarrior game could be financially successful in today's market without having to be free to play. Grind treadmills are completely unnecessary in a buy to play title if you make the game itself fun to play. Devs spend far to much time making systems to draw out the life span of content and to little time making that content enjoyable enough to sustain itself the way many classic games did.

Even in a free to play game, where grind systems are arguably a necessary evil, relying on them to the extent MWO does is a sign of unimaginative and lazy game design (and in MWOs case, likely partly the result of it's glacial development pace).

[Bront]

shad0w4life, on 21 October 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Scandalous prices what? Shadowhawk is 3M Cbills right now, that's around 15 matches to play.
Not to mention if you buy one of the mech packs it saves you a lot of time plus all the extras you get.

10,000 MC prizes on recent tourney, various other tournaments happening for MCs as well.

ArcheAge I leveled via Potions, was great.

However I don't work at McDonald's so that might be why I don't care about prices. But if you're 16, enjoy the f2p + Free mech challenges and just win tournies.

You average over 200,000 CBills a match? Without consumables?

And tourny rewards are hardly indicitive of the average experience, which is what we're discussing here.