333 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Sorbic, on 15 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

I just wish they would up the cbill rewards for damage done. I can do 700 damage on a team that gets rolled and my effort only earns 14,700 cbills from damage and squat over all. I'd love to see damage rewards bumped from 21 to at least 38. At least then you would feel like you got something for your effort, especially when getting rolled.

As it stands right now you are rewarded more for scratching (kill assist) another player than for doing 300dmg. It just doesn't encourage good play.

It doesn't always reward good play, but I'd rather have 11 other guys focused on putting damage where it's needed and when it's needed than trying to deal as much damage as possible or get as many personal kills as possible.


So it's a good thing IMO that assist are weighted higher than kills.


It also allows for lights and mediums to earn solid rewards through their contribution on assists, don't underestimate it.

[Greenjulius]

SovietArmada, on 15 October 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Without premium, over a period of three days I can grind 30mil assuming I spend at least 10 hours a day playing. That's quite a lot. That would also be 45mil with premium mind you. That can buy you more than 3 mechs fully customized depending on your tonnage.

Compare that with say WOT, it can take a whole week with premium to grind the experience and silver needed to unlock and purchase your tank. That's A LOT longer.

MWO actually has the fairest earnings I have seen compared to all other MMO's i have played. Even after they cut the Cbill earning when switching to 12 players the earnings were more than fair.
You have to remember there is absolutely NO MANDATORY REPAIR AND REARM COSTS. That is huge when it comes to grinding.

Stop pestering PGI about this, it's ridiculous and has no merit.

If I can recall, you were in the top couple medium IS players, right? That obviously means you can grind c-bills way faster than the average player.

You also say you play 30 hours over 3 days... how is that possible? That's a full time job! I rarely have more than 5 hours after I get home from work. I consider myself lucky in that regard, living 10 minutes from the locations I work. And weekends... do you seriously just play games with ALL your free time? And what if you have children?

You have to remember that most players average UNDER 100k a match. The official figure from PGI is 80k. Now, you and I may average much higher, but the vast majority of the community sits closer to that 80k a match.

I have found that with my fairly free, ~40 hour work week, without wife or children life, I can generate around 30-40 million cbills with a month of premium time. That's with me playing MWO as my sole game for the month, the game played a few hours a day with the occasional day missed for life issues. And I consider myself a good player. 6th in IS mediums, not nearly as impressive as your 1st or 2nd place, but I can't see our c-bills per game be that far off.

What it comes down to is this: I could convince many more people to play this game if they weren't overwhelmed by the grind after the initial novice bonuses. Most people will resort to premium time and Hero mechs to generate c-bills at a decent pace, but that grows old when you only have a couple game modes and small number of maps.

I want my time in this game to be exciting and fun. Increased c-bill income and more mechs will make this game more interesting and drive mech bay and premium time purchases all the same. Player retention will likely be higher because it will keep the game fresher and more interesting, less of a daunting hill for new players to climb.

[kf envy]

with the way the cbill system is atm even with premium time I feel like im wasting my time. part of the reasons I stopped playing soon after 3ed per view was added was the cbill nerf. I can play 4hr an maybe get 1.5mil an that's not counting all the Cbill I have to spend on UAV's to counter all the ECM that's only on the other team. but it does not help I spend more time having the game search for an match then play. even fell asleep because of that last night the sound of LRM warring got me up. but id buy more mech bays if i id be able to have the cbill to get more mechs to fill them up.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 15 October 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

I rarely have more than 5 hours after I get home from work.

5 hours a night is a lot.

That means if you spend like 8 days you can buy all of those Shadowhawks in the OP.

On top of that, you don't need to buy all 3 of them at once.

Greenjulius, on 15 October 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

I want my time in this game to be exciting and fun. Increased c-bill income and more mechs will make this game more interesting and drive mech bay and premium time purchases all the same.

Why would increased c-bill income increase premium time purchases?


Every free to play game has this same exact conversation and every forum has some segment saying if you give us more then we might spend.

It never really works that way.


Ultimately if people don't like the grind they can skip it by spending money.

It would cost like $30 to buy those Shadowhawks in the OP. It certainly doesn't take 40 hours for the vast majority of people to earn that. That's $0.75/hour.

[MoonUnitBeta]

For playing a good fun game for free, I can't say there's much to people can complain about when it comes to the economy. It's at a good balance right now.

Do you see that "If you had premium time you could have earned 40-60k more c-bills" in the center of the end of round screen? If you want to talk numbers OP, then you should count how many times you see that message in your screen and mark down the amount you see that you could have earned. Then, in a month, tally it up. I want to see you come in here and complain about c-bills after that. You could be earning a heck of a lot more if you had premium time. And it's not unreasonably priced either.

When c-bills were reduced by 30% in August last year, we complained, but in all honesty they were actually pretty high. I didn't have any incentive to spending any money at all except for mech bays. For a F2P dev, that kind of sucks. Nowadays, having premium time puts the earnings roughly back to what they were like normally before the c-bill nerf last year (which is still quite a lot), and buying premium time isn't asking a whole lot. Just this month before I knew it I was at 22mill c-bills in a matter of weeks up from 127k. And I normally play on weekends. I now have a nice set of vindicators with all the upgrades.

So really, if you find the grind is hard, then that's why there's options like premium time. If you aren't comfortable with the grind, and aren't comfortable spending money, then you might want to go to some share-ware, or free-ware websites, or addictinggames.com where you can play fast paced games for free. Premium Time lessens the grind and supports the continuation of the game. It's really not that expensive either. It's basically $15/mo if you buy it in 1 month chunks. If you play a lot, you can really start reaping the benefits of premium time, and earn more for same price. If you only play strictly on weekends, only pick up 1 or 3 days.

Here's a quick guide:
- Ten 1-day premium time thingies is the same as buying 1 month of premium time.
- Four 3-day premium time thingies is more expensive than the 1 month of premium time by 100
- Two 7-day premium time thingies is the same as buying 1 month of premium time.

There's plenty of payment options available now. I've received 240k c-bills in one go with my hunchback 4G. Anything's possible, and you're only missing out if all you want to do is play a free game.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 15 October 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Ultimatum X, on 15 October 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

5 hours a night is a lot.

Did you interpret that as 5 hours of time to devote to a video game? 1 hour to cook, eat dinner, the occasional trip to the grocery store, friends, appointments, etc.

Do some of you get home from work (or are unemployed) or school and just play MWO? That's what people seem to be indicating!

How do people still have fun in this game when they devote so much of their life to it?

We all die eventually. Some sooner than others. Do you want years of your life to be devoted to grinding c-bills begrudgingly? I want to have fun playing this game, not just feel the need to grind huge numbers of c-bills. I am no drag on the game either... I have bought $100 worth of MC and the Man-O-War pack for $120. I want to see this game succeed.

I consider the amount of content in this game to be quite low for $220, but I do it because I love Mechwarrior. Compare the amount of content to a good MMO for $15 a month, and it seems quite bare.

Edited by Greenjulius, 15 October 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Mothykins]

Ultimatum X, on 15 October 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

5 hours a night is a lot.

That means if you spend like 8 days you can buy all of those Shadowhawks in the OP.

On top of that, you don't need to buy all 3 of them at once.






Why would increased c-bill income increase premium time purchases?


Every free to play game has this same exact conversation and every forum has some segment saying if you give us more then we might spend.

It never really works that way.


Ultimately if people don't like the grind they can skip it by spending money.

It would cost like $30 to buy those Shadowhawks in the OP. It certainly doesn't take 40 hours for the vast majority of people to earn that. That's $0.75/hour.

Except two things. For $30 I could buy Transistor. A well polished, beautiful game with a compelling story that immerses you in the games world for ~8 hours, with varied game-play and stunning visuals. Ooor buy a mastery pack and grind EXP so I can play the decently.

And with expenses, to get $30 free money takes the average person at least a week. If not more. So yes, yes it does take 40 hours to earn that money. Weird.



If you up Cbill earnings, you increase the value of Heros and Premium accordingly. This is really simple math.

As for alleviating the grind with money? You really can't. You can't buy GXP or EXP. So you can buy away HALF the grind.

[El Bandito]

I just finished grinding for three Direwhales + Clan weapons. It was such a chore, not to mention I have to elite all of them just so the DW-B can get a mastery point.

On the bright side, I can definitely sell DW-A for a bit of cash refund. More importantly, I have triumphed over PGI and did not fork over any cash to them, keeping my oath.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 October 2014 - 08:06 PM.

[Axeman1]

This topic is right. **** costs too much and takes too long to get. It doesn't help that you don't know what you are buying with a mech either since it doesn't tell you anymore. I'm an avid player who saved up for 1 dire wolf and bought the mad cat ala carte. Even with the 30 percent increase in cbills from the prime timber wolf it still takes forever to grind. Do I have more than 1 dire wolf now? Nope. Do you think I (As a fan and avid player) have the patience to grind another 17 mill for another dire wolf? No. I could be playing something else and get rewarded for it much more than wasting time grinding these c bills.

[Sorbic]

Asmudius Heng, on 15 October 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

High damage does not always mean good play.

If you spend all your weapons heat and ammo and reduce enemies to scrap you are not killing efficiently. The less efficient your killing the less of an asset you are for your team.

Sheer damage is not a goo measurement of success

You're right that damage alone isn't everything but it a definite indicator of success. There are plenty of games where I get many kills (highest has been 10) with my damage and others where other people land/farm that final blow. Especially on games where you're getting rolled and you're having to spread damage across most of the other team as they pop in and out.

It doesn't negate the fact that I exposed the core of mech X before he retreated into his friends or my mate landed his first and last blow on it.
Saw an exposed arm/torso and negated all/much of mech Y's firepower/ECM/AMS and SMARTLY moved onto another more dangerous mech knowing some git would be focused on farming those kills.
Only had a side view of a mech and took the shot.
Took an exposed leg and left the mech to be killed by others frantically trying to land the killing blow.
Dropped an arty that stopped a large advance in it's tracks and removed some components...

The list goes on and damage rewards are pathetic. I understand a lot of people don't want to rock the rewards boat because they've become accustomed to exploiting it's quirks and easy way of making cbills. I'm fine with that. Keep everything else in place and bump damage rewards.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Cavale, on 15 October 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

If you up Cbill earnings, you increase the value of . . . Premium accordingly. This is really simple math.

The math is simple, yes. I indeed would earn more with premium time if it looked like this...
100k cbills + PT 30% = 130k, Earnings: 30k
200k cbills + PT 30% = 260k, Earnings: 60k

Yes, I'm now getting more c-bills for my dollar... But, if I was comfortably earning enough c-bills to happily carry my casual bum along while I got 130k, then I would actually let my premium time run out if I suddenly started getting 200k c-bills without having to pay for premium time.

You see, there comes a limit where you just get more c-bills than you really need. And spending money for MORE c-bills than you really need becomes a waste of money. So really, the value of premium is REDUCED as an effect.

What they could do to increase the value for premium time? Simply increase the bonus that premium time offers. Too high though, and people who don't pay feel as though they are forced into getting premium time. Too low, people feel ripped off and the $ value would need to be adjusted accordingly.

C-bills are currently in a good place. If there was a to be a buff though, at most I would say a 10% increase. Either to normal c-bill earnings, or strictly to premium time earnings, wouldn't matter to me either way.

PGI knows all the numbers. So I'm leaving it up to them. They feel that we did earn too much money last year and I can agree with them. I was making 250k without premium time (average would be about 180-200k). Our normal c-bills got roughly a 30% nerf. However, now that we're making 30% less, adding 30% more (the premium time) actually comes out to a little bit less money.

200k - 30% nerf = 140k + 30% = 182k

So even with premium time, we are making less money that we were last year earnings without premium time. But. Premium time has a little more relevancy as it serves a purpose to lessen a grind, rather than just give you more c-bills.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 15 October 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[Sorbic]

Ultimatum X, on 15 October 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

So it's a good thing IMO that assist are weighted higher than kills.


It also allows for lights and mediums to earn solid rewards through their contribution on assists, don't underestimate it.

I agree with this point. I really disliked challenges where kills had too much weight. It meant my team was very likely to shoot me. I just want damage rewards to be more reflective of the effort put in.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 15 October 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Do some of you get home from work (or are unemployed) or school and just play MWO? That's what people seem to be indicating!

No, I have a wife, two kids, full time job and two hours of commuting everyday.

I don't even get online until 8:30 or 9pm when the kids have gone to sleep.

I just buy some of the things that I want, like a clan pack, because it's part of my entertainment budget.


Everything else like modules I just play the game and work towards. I'll get it when I get it.

Greenjulius, on 15 October 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

I consider the amount of content in this game to be quite low for $220, but I do it because I love Mechwarrior. Compare the amount of content to a good MMO for $15 a month, and it seems quite bare.

Those $15 a month MMOs are becoming extinct.

They are becoming extinct because free to play games lure players who can't even afford $15 dollars a month.

Those games are sustained by large time investment required by players, which can be skipped or sped up by spending $$$.

[Asmudius Heng]

Sorbic, on 15 October 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I agree with this point. I really disliked challenges where kills had too much weight. It meant my team was very likely to shoot me. I just want damage rewards to be more reflective of the effort put in.

Overall its not an easy task to put rewards on things without them being exploited mercilessly.

Damage is really hard because a high damage person who didnt get many kills OR assists probably was not a very good shot, but when i see someone with very high damage they usually get lots of assists and end up with a big match score too and higher rewards so i am not sure if it is that much in need of change but quite frankly i havent looked into the specifics.

More important is to find ways to reward good teamwork and the only thing we have is spotting/narc/tag etc which is usually more about LRM usage than any other sort of teamwork.

Part of the original design was going to be getting points by following orders etc .... except that stuff can be farmed.

Though getting a bonus to your cbills/xp by doing any other types of rewards in the vicinity of a certain command marker might be ok, though as soon as a brawl breaks out some people might lose the poot trying to set a marker while having thier face shot off lol

Commo-rose stuff might give more commandery type options though for rewards as long as they are not too farmable, and perhaps not too much, just something additionally small.

[Spheroid]

The grind is nothing. I somehow amassed 60 million since buying Vindicators.

PGI gave 10 million away in cash away, multiple days of premium, etc., etc.

In my opinion cash still accumulates faster than new mechs are released for C-bills. Also by time you complete mastery one should have enough for a new STD engine chassis of heavy or below.

Any intelligent player will engine and weapon swap. Your estimated cash requirements are vastly overstated.

Edited by Spheroid, 15 October 2014 - 09:47 PM.

[Glythe]

I saved up about 100 million Cbills from the economy the way it was before (and will never be again). Thinking about buying a set of 12 clan mechs is just ridiculous. The old rewards were too high (thats why they were nerfed) but they actually make sense when you consider what you need to buy to be competitive.

It's just stupid that the clan mechs are that much better than IS counterparts (heavy/assault). Right now you're pretty much cannon fodder if you aren't rocking the better clan mechs.

Oh and by the way those 3x Dire wolfs you need to buy will cost 60m Cbills. And you think ok that might not be such a big deal until you try to play outgunned and outdated mechs against clan models that will violate you.

It's not fun.

Spheroid, on 15 October 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

The grind is nothing. I somehow amassed 60 million since buying Vindicators.

Do me a favor.... with no premium play only IS mechs (and only ones rated 3-4-5 in balanced numbers) and see how you do. Keep a clock of your play time and post how long it takes to grind out 60M.

Edited by Glythe, 15 October 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Alex Warden]

Glythe, on 15 October 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

Do me a favor.... with no premium play only IS mechs (and only ones rated 3-4-5 in balanced numbers) and see how you do. Keep a clock of your play time and post how long it takes to grind out 60M.

about 2 weeks if it runs bad and i dont play much... 2 weeks? that´s much one might say... but i´m playing this game for 2 years now, and i´m not planning to quit any time soon, so 2 weeks is just a bit playing really... and if i really need those 60 mil, i´ll get 1 week prem and take a hero, and the problem is solved rather quickly... around 200k a match, so it takes 300 matches for 60mil... and 300 matches in a game that i like to play? they pass quicker than you might think...

do yourselves a favour and just play the game, don´t watch on your cbill count every 2 seconds...the more eager you wish for something, the longer it takes to get there...

[Combat Loss Grouping]

MoonUnitBeta, on 15 October 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

So really, if you find the grind is hard, then that's why there's options like premium time.

If premium time only counted down while I was logged in (or, even better, on a drop) then I might consider it. But the current implementation? Counting down from the moment you pay for it whether you're on or not? I'm not paying cash money for my 'premium time' to tic down overnight while I'm sleeping.

For every day of premium time I theoretically purchase, I am losing out on easily 16-18 of the 24 hours I paid for. That is not something worth spending money on.

[Utilyan]

I think a good point was made. Back when we had rewards that was "too high" I needed to buy more mechbays. Game was fresh and fun you bought your load out you want to try, bam go fight........


So if they notice a drop in mechbay sales.....notice folks with 5 empty mech bays.......they better scratch their head.


But hey they got the numbers. They're logic might be well server load too many players......cut the players
Farm the whales. They might not want it to be "big".



Cut the reward so they'll have to grind and "extend" playtime. I got like 40 mech bays. I looked at my billing history....... It looked like I planned to get all mechs. ALL OF THEM. Somewhere around December 2013 that died.



The peak of this game for me was like Feb 2013 I think they had release trebuchet, and machine guns had a ninja buff, and the patch before with pretty baby introduced.......I was playing like 60-80 frames per second. The notes say performance was tweaked with the pretty baby introduced.........but I remember the performance rocket was with trebuchet......and the game rocked. most fun... im pretty sure the ghosting motion blur was gone....... went to sht like very next "hotfix".

I think it pist off some whale. performance went back to crap and the machine gun got nerfed worst then it ever was.



Last night I got 10 frames per second......they got this weird motionblur/ghosting mech prob for months I hope that's the prob. Bad enough we can't can fun making the mechs we want unless you grind your butt off. but grinding through a sht game is worst. And then the pay2win, if you got maddog you already won.

A patch comes a play a few games. Summoner I wanted like 6 months/year ago or whatever I sold engines of my mechs to get the money to play it.. Cause I didn't want to HAVE TO play this game for days. Which would have been absolute joy back around feb 2013. uh-uh not this sht.

[Vassago Rain]

We were supposed to have increased earnings back in august 2013. I gave up on the topic by december last year.