333 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

So go play your heart out during this event.... you can buy 3x clan mechs after for at least 45% off!

[Chemie]

Glythe, on 19 October 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

So go play your heart out during this event.... you can buy 3x clan mechs after for at least 45% off!

All they have to do is make them always 45% off....Still time for the timberwolf sale. Then everyone can have a timberwolf and we can all drop 12 timberwolfs. But they won;t be OP because everyone will have one!

[Ozric]

MarsAtlas, on 19 October 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Given how frequently mechs come out, how many already exist, and how much it costs, I would say that its nigh impossible for msot people to play Pokemech, even disregarding mech bay costs,

I gave up the pokemech challenge at around 28 mechs I think. I had already altered the rules so that I only needed to collect one of every chassis, not every single variant, but I did (and still do) have to master every mech in the mechbay which requires buying three variants and selling two. The change came about due to a combination of cbill grind and finding out that there were some mechs that I just couldn't pilot for ****.

The next collecting phase became buying a variant of every new chassis when it was released, getting it through basic to see if I liked it, and then mastering or selling as I saw fit. It was furring this time that the cbill grind really began to bite, and gradually unused mechs were sent off to the scrap heap so that new ones could be tested (we do just scrap our stuff right? We are certainly not selling it to anyone sensible...) Mechbays also stopped being an issue at this point, but honestly they never were.

Then the Clans rolled in, and I could not afford a package. Although annoying this should, in theory, have given me plenty of time to save up the cbills to master a few Clan mechs as they were released, and it did, but not nearly as much as I had hoped. I have only mastered three Clan mechs so far (keeping one of each + a full set of omnipods), but I have had to sell of all but nine of my IS mechs and several modules to achieve just that.

What should be done? Increase the re-sell value to 50% to reduce the counter-grind for people who are already invested. Increase match rewards in general (may be incoming?) Greatly increase cbill rewards for achievements. CW cbill rewards (potential incoming?). There are enough mechs in game now that allowing people to collect them faster will not have a negative impact on PGI's F2P business model, in fact it would open the game up faster too which would have quite the opposite effect.


TL/DR:

- The grind is real
- Dealing with it will not ruin PGI

Edited by Ozric, 19 October 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Julian Tifflor]

I still dont get why new players only get like 1 mech at the end. Then if they find out it isnt the mech they like...or spend money wrong to see its doesnt work out as planned. especially with the hidden ghost heat issue that they sure arent aware of starting out fresh.

it wouldnt hurt PGI at all if fresh players can get like 2-3 mechs for free and use the cadet bonus for equipping them how they like and test things. like give them one light, medium and heavy...assault only for buying.

should give them a nice general feeling what might be a good choice for them to continue with or even aim for aussault mechs.
with the little gamemodes we have...that are near all a bit similar...with capping kinda boring (oh yeah i sure like to sit in my atlas capping for 3min and do nothing...since the fast mechs dont feel like capping at all) i liked conquest before this stupid cap tweak which made this a no fun mode...and its also the reson its now more assault mode since no one wants to wait to cap things or recapping in slow bore mode.

3 gamemodes...and even several maps wont keep new players for long...only the die hard fans of battletech/mechwarrior will remain...till even they get bored like me. i havent played for months and somehow cant bring myself to even try even with clan mechs here...since there is nothing to achieve besides earning more credits to buy a new mech...to play the same gamemodes and maps over and over.

one map in like 1 year isnt going to do anything...and 3 gamemmodes that are all kinda similar dont help either.

who knows when...or if...we ever get community warefare at all. not many are that patient to wait for that...and all the news you see is sale...sale....sale.

sure the last few gifts were a nice gesture but doesnt change the fact that we are still behind shedule by a wide margin...since we were supposed to have all this before the game even went life. now...after such a long time we still lisrten to their promise they will deliver and hope they might keep this promise.

i myself had high hopes for this game...but after this long time....all i do is read news...browse the forum and i never read anything exciting anymore

then going for another game...with a similar setting to 2 other games...when they had the MW license...i dont get it. maybe its...cause they got the rights from igp...but not from microsoft...so the future is still unknown...

its also the reason in my opinion they are kinda...delaying everything like last time...wanting to make sure they get the license renewed before progressing with content. will it be the same again...when exactly will the license run out from microsoft. 1 or 2 years? will check again then...to see if they actually made any progress...i lost hope sadly...looking at MW Tactics has shown me something i didnt want to see...and i sure dont hope MWO travels down the same road.

Edited by Julian Tifflor, 19 October 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[Bront]

Julian Tifflor, on 19 October 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

its also the reason in my opinion they are kinda...delaying everything like last time...wanting to make sure they get the license renewed before progressing with content. will it be the same again...when exactly will the license run out from microsoft. 1 or 2 years? will check again then...to see if they actually made any progress...i lost hope sadly...looking at MW Tactics has shown me something i didnt want to see...and i sure dont hope MWO travels down the same road.

They own the license till at least 2018.

[Brody319]

I ran into the trap of the new player. Decided I wanted to spend my cadet bonus on the Catapults. (before clans were announced) and unfortunately I decided to buy the A1. I hated that thing, Couldn't seem to help anyone, would run out of ammo and be just a useless rock. I still wanted the Catapults but I hated the A1. I didn't have fun after that, had my own mech but still was using the trials because I could at least use them well enough.

I think new players should be able to pick any 2 non-champion/hero mechs and get them for free, and then they can use their cadet bonus for the last mech or to equip their current mechs. I don't get why people are against raising the c-bill bonus. I mean even at double, you are cutting the matches needed to get a new mech from like 200 down to 100. That is still a lot and that doesnt account for the cost of retrofitting mechs. You are just making it so players can try more mechs and get to make their mechs better. These people will be fighting with you in regular play and in CW so why would you want them to come under prepared?

[oldradagast]

Brody319, on 19 October 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

I ran into the trap of the new player. Decided I wanted to spend my cadet bonus on the Catapults. (before clans were announced) and unfortunately I decided to buy the A1. I hated that thing, Couldn't seem to help anyone, would run out of ammo and be just a useless rock. I still wanted the Catapults but I hated the A1. I didn't have fun after that, had my own mech but still was using the trials because I could at least use them well enough.

I think new players should be able to pick any 2 non-champion/hero mechs and get them for free, and then they can use their cadet bonus for the last mech or to equip their current mechs. I don't get why people are against raising the c-bill bonus. I mean even at double, you are cutting the matches needed to get a new mech from like 200 down to 100. That is still a lot and that doesnt account for the cost of retrofitting mechs. You are just making it so players can try more mechs and get to make their mechs better. These people will be fighting with you in regular play and in CW so why would you want them to come under prepared?

Agreed. A pair of free mechs at the start - so they can alternate between matches - makes sense. There's no drawback to this since it makes it so much easier for players to get into the game, enjoy, and then spend real money.

[Bront]

Brody319, on 19 October 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

I think new players should be able to pick any 2 non-champion/hero mechs and get them for free, and then they can use their cadet bonus for the last mech or to equip their current mechs. I don't get why people are against raising the c-bill bonus. I mean even at double, you are cutting the matches needed to get a new mech from like 200 down to 100. That is still a lot and that doesnt account for the cost of retrofitting mechs. You are just making it so players can try more mechs and get to make their mechs better. These people will be fighting with you in regular play and in CW so why would you want them to come under prepared?

I get why people worry about it. They don't want PGI to fold, and are used to how the game is, and understand that some grind is part of an F2P game. The problem is that the game is not new player friendly with the grind as it is now. new players don't get customizable mechs till they've completed a grind (25 matches isn't much of a grind, but it is a grind), but after that they're stuck, and can be screwed if they don't make the most of their mechs. I started on Quickdraws, and I hated mine (It's the only chasis I've owned one of and never mastered, I may go back one of these days), I instead went for Jenners because they were cheap, and learned to love them, but many new players may not make that transition. Heck, when you have to question customizing mechs, or finding builds that don't need crucial upgrades in order to save CBills (which variants can I play without DHS?), something's wrong with the system.

Ultimately, I see players getting to the end of their 4 free Mechbays fast a good thing for retaining non-paying players and paying players alike. A non-paying player can feel free to sell a mech knowing he can earn it back in a reasonable amount of time, and he just has to live with 4 mech bays, while it encourages a player to invest in at least a few mech bays to fit all their mechs and not deal with such an issue. Meanwhile you're retaining players you may not have otherwise retained, and converting more players to paying players, while hooking your hard core players even more (The Poke'mech masters if you will).

The end result?
1) More players stay due to having stuff to do without extremely arduous grind.
2) More players lead to better matches (larger pool of players to make matches from).
3) Better matches lead to keeping more players (which feeds #2 again)
4) More players feeds to more paying players, particularly when low cost items such as colors, mech bays, and camo are more in demand with more mechs in the players hands.
5) More paying players helps retain players long term, as well as assists in the health of PGI.

Now, there's deminishing returns at some point by removing grind, but I think we're far from that number at the moment. Before the 30% rewards nerf, players were still questioning the grind, but not nearly this bad. That would at least be a place to start.

Now, I'll also admit that PGI could surprise us with some of the role payment balancing that may end up increasing the CBill earnings. If they do, then bravo. It's one more step into making the game both better, and more interesting for new and old players alike.

[KraftySOT]

Several people here have hit the nail on the head.

It has nothing to do with the grind or rewards, and everything to do with the fact that you can buy bad mechs.

Quirks probably helps...but maybe something else is needed. Some sort of visible indication youre being a subpar mech. You can get 10 million cbills pretty quick, and even faster now that theres all these events. What you cant do, is figure out ahead of time that 10 million cbills of Wolverine...is still a pile of absolute feces.

[Xetelian]

As someone who is grinding towards a second diashi with dreams of 3 and Stormcrows and Timberwolves sometime down the road I would like an increase in cbills.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Xetelian, on 19 October 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

As someone who is grinding towards a second diashi with dreams of 3 and Stormcrows and Timberwolves sometime down the road I would like an increase in cbills.

Yep. I bought the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf ala carte but buying my way through 3 Kit Foxes, 3 Novas and finally 3 Dire Wolves totally wiped me out in the C-bill department. I mean I literally spent over 110 million C-bills on just these 3 mechs and the variants needed to master than and even selling of 1 of the Kits and 2 of the Novas didn't do a whole lot to replenish the coffers.

Now I face another uphill battle as I try to save around 50 million for 3 Warhawks plus out fitting cost and then another roughly 45 million for 3 Mad Dogs and outfitting only a few weeks later. Oh and I want to pick up an extra Atlas and Centurion, plus I will need 2 more King Crabs to go with my free gift plus outfitting costs. Oh and I guess I will have to outfit my Ice Ferret by then and maybe my Mist Lynx too....oh I think the Loki and Gargoyle are out by Dec too. So lets see, that is only about what......200 milllion I will need to save up in only about 2 months time and considering I usually average earning about 10-12 million a week.....well guess I am going end up about 100 million short of the goal.

The grind sucks.

[Dazzer]

all those that are saying it too easy to get C-bills now need to remember that most people work and have wife/GF and possible children and as such cannot play hours loong meaga session day after day. I am lucky if I can get a hour in 4 times a week.

[Vassago Rain]

Dazzer, on 19 October 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

all those that are saying it too easy to get C-bills now need to remember that most people work and have wife/GF and possible children and as such cannot play hours loong meaga session day after day. I am lucky if I can get a hour in 4 times a week.

People who say it's too easy to get c-bills all have huge collections of robots and parts already. They've forgotten that when someone puts 30 million into 3 variants of the mech of the month, they also have to pay for upgrades, weapons, and different engines.

These same players are so loaded that they can actually drop 30 million in one go without needing to even consider the possibility that the mech will be a dud, as they have about 20 other good robots sitting in the hangar already.

[Scratx]

Vassago Rain, on 19 October 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

People who say it's too easy to get c-bills all have huge collections of robots and parts already. They've forgotten that when someone puts 30 million into 3 variants of the mech of the month, they also have to pay for upgrades, weapons, and different engines.

These same players are so loaded that they can actually drop 30 million in one go without needing to even consider the possibility that the mech will be a dud, as they have about 20 other good robots sitting in the hangar already.

Quite true. Though my position is more along the lines of "We don't need more, or at least not much more cbill income IF skills are revamped such that basics are the largest chunk of performance increase from skill-up, and no double basics upon eliting, please".

We won't truly need 3 variants of the same mech to be competitive in that case.

[siLve00]

Dazzer, on 19 October 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

all those that are saying it too easy to get C-bills now need to remember that most people work and have wife/GF and possible children and as such cannot play hours loong meaga session day after day. I am lucky if I can get a hour in 4 times a week.

Maybe you should remember this is a game. A game is meant to be played...to earn stuff. Just saying.
But i know times where single player campaings last 50+ hrs... and i did play mmo´s where you needed 2+ years to gain the highest level ( if you did play everyday )

@Vassago Rain maybe ppl like me who have a family and who do sports... just think a bit different and ppl like me want to see the effort ingame when i do put time into it ? Maybe were all different.. ? No ? You guys are correct we all should understand you but you don´t see the other side.. every coin got 2 medals.. it´s called double standards.

[Ultimax]

Vassago Rain, on 19 October 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

People who say it's too easy to get c-bills all have huge collections of robots and parts already. They've forgotten that when someone puts 30 million into 3 variants of the mech of the month, they also have to pay for upgrades, weapons, and different engines.

Unless a player is completely bad at this game or has really very little time to play, earning 1 million cbills a day/7 million per week (average) is really not any kind of a stretch.

So there is your 30 million for your "mech of the month" +upgrades.


With premium time and a hero bonus, you could be generating 2 to 3 million per day with minimal grinding.



Or you can spend real money.




The reality is that online gaming is both a hobby, and a luxury.

This game takes that a step further, it is more like a "boutique" (niche) hobby & luxury - due to the very specific customer it appeals to.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 19 October 2014 - 08:03 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Ultimatum X, on 19 October 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Unless a player is completely bad at this game or has really very little time to play, earning 1 million cbills a day/7 million per week (average) is really not any kind of a stretch.

So there is your 30 million for your "mech of the month" +upgrades.


With premium time and a hero bonus, you could be generating 2 to 3 million per day with minimal grinding.



Or you can spend real money.




The reality is that online gaming is both a hobby, and a luxury.

This game takes that a step further, it is more like a "boutique" (niche) hobby & luxury - due to the very specific customer it appeals to.

You need a good mech to earn good money in the first place...

I also note that you dropped 240 dollars on clan gundams.

[Ultimax]

Vassago Rain, on 19 October 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

You need a good mech to earn good money in the first place...

You can earn with the Cadet bonus. I know, I've done it myself.

Then you can spend your cbills or buy with MC

Vassago Rain, on 19 October 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

I also note that you dropped 240 dollars on clan gundams.

Yes, I have this thing called "a job".

It grants me a salary, that allows me to take my kids to the zoo, pays for gasoline, cars, mortage and lets me spend money on entertainment, restaurants & alcohol.

Fun Fact: For the 5 months I've spent playing the Clan mechs I purchased for $240 - in that time frame I spent no other money on MWO but I did spend significantly more than that on just alcohol.


Again, maybe this is a hard concept for you? Gaming = Luxury Hobby.

Expect to spend money, or expect to invest a lot of time.

[Mothykins]

Ultimatum X, on 19 October 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

The reality is that online gaming is both a hobby, and a luxury.

This game takes that a step further, it is more like a "boutique" (niche) hobby & luxury - due to the very specific customer it appeals to.

People who have no time or money should play with rocks.

No, those have value. Sticks? No, still have value...

Uuuhhhh, stop breathing and hope that the lack of oxygen makes you see 'Mechs? I guess?

No, turns out if you have little time or money you're not allowed fun, and you are required to live a listless life, with nothing but work and sleep. You must either wear rags or designer suits with gold watches, there is no middle ground.

So says X.

Turn in your computers, phones, mechs, game consoles, tvs and other luxury items and return to your deepfry vats.

[Budor]

The grind is awfull, if you don't own a hero & run premium it will take you weeks to properly unlock, fit and module up a single chassi.

Better make sure you invest that cadet money in a good robot because you will be stuck with it for what seems forever. Trial mechs are not an option anymore now that you know how much off an impact double basics have...