83 replies to this topic

[Mr Beefy]

After playing many games today, and on into the night.... I find it odd how so few are trying to take advantage of the challenge PGI has put forth this weekend for us to save on the Storm crow and the Shadow hawk and Mech bays.

I get that for some this seems like a pointless rewards weekend. If you have the Storm crow already, or have plenty of bays, this challenge doesn't give much incentive to try and get the most points per match we can.

What I find odd is, that so many complainers on the forums regarding how this game is nothing more than a first person shoot death match. So PGI, puts forth a challenge that rewards us better for not just shooting all the enemy mechs till they are all dead. One that if you are at a advantage in the game, you could in fact leave one or two zombie enemy mechs instead of getting that last kill... You and team could take advantage of getting 20 points by capping or taking the enemy teams base.

Out of around 50 games played today, only in three of them did our team try to get the extra points of capping or base taking. With team work, and players not worried about their almighty K/D ratio, we got the player base 20 points instead of 10 those games.

The rest of the games, well, either we wasn't able to choose, or they were not conquest or assault, or we lost, or in many of the games.... Players just didn't care and took the kills instead. Why???

I have tried to inform and ask teammates if they want to try for the extra points at the start of every match. Last match I played, one player responded back, "Why, this game is just a death match." Well, the irony of this to me is that, he is one of them that are making this game just a death match.

While I like the challenges that PGI is having most of the time, they seem to be getting harder and harder to complete. I am not one to believe that hitting 450000 points is gonna be easy in three days of play, unless all of us players try to max out every match we play, if we can. So far, in the games I have played, we have missed out on a total of 100 points we could of had towards the total. Why? Simply because some just want that kill, and don't care about the goals put forth by PGI to make us want to do something other than a death match.

I really am hoping CW will be a different story, but some how with some players attitudes, I seriously doubt it will be.

Pretty sad IMO....

Thank you for the few players who really play as a team, and try to win the most for their team if able to do so. I look forward to playing CW with you, and this game even in PUG drops. The ones that are open to team play, are the ones that make this game more fun and much more interesting than all the lets just kill'em guys. I hope all your guys K/D ratio's are worth the lack of real tactics and team play. We are the only ones that can change the way this game is played.... simple!

Edited by Mr Beefy, 17 October 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[Chagatay]

Playing the most effective way to win (killing the other team) is the correct action. While I certainly would like varied play the game mechanics, the small arena deathbowl maps, ever increasing firepower and short ttk, the inability to cap at a reasonable rate, etc etc etc, do not favor the "primary objective".

[Mr Beefy]

Chagatay, on 17 October 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Playing the most effective way to win (killing the other team) is the correct action. While I certainly would like varied play the game mechanics, the small arena deathbowl maps, ever increasing firepower and short ttk, the inability to cap at a reasonable rate, etc etc etc, do not favor the "primary objective".

I understand your points, really I do, and I agree with you that there are several short comings on the maps, modes of play, rewards etc. etc. However, many matches I have played tonight, we have had a clear choice of taking the caps, or the base, for 20 points instead of 10, with out risking the win and many players seemed to only care about their K/D ratio. That is my point, we are given a option to not make it a death match per say, and have the chance to use the tactics PGI put forth to gain more than what we would if we just kill em all....Yet many players don't care. How can PGI's design flaws be the problem in these games if we the players don't take advantage of what they put forth for us to get by winning a certain way?

[CheeseyPeas]

The lack of real objectives in conquest and assault are the problem imo, conquest should be about controlling the map not just a few squares and assault would be better if it was one team defending a base while the other tries to take it. Just my thoughts on the matter no doubt there are more ideas out there.

[divinedisclaimer]

I would like to see this game include multiplayer "playlists" like that of a console game. Hold with me here, it actually benefits small player-bases.

You have one mode with the existing three modes, randomly chosen.

Then you have one more mode with wacky objective type games where you just get silly and do weird stuff like moving king of the hill, one-side attack/defend, cap the flag, respawning mechs, just anything less competitive.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 17 October 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its been like that since the Clan mechs came.
Seriously.

With all that firepower came alot of bravado, and rambo tactics seemed to win out over playing smart, popping out and doing snap shots, 1 or 2 mechs completely dead stopping an enemy flank with a couple LL's and AC2's.

Rambo rushing into the entire enemy force by yourself was typically frowned upon, and often did not reward you but rather punish you harsly.

Theses clan mechs with their XL survivability + maximum firepower just lets people get away with it, the pilots know they can now survive a fast assault and do some serious damage with often much less risk than the old IS XL highspeed builds allowed for.

Since the clans, the game has transitioned into "HIT THE GAS, AND KICK SOME ASS!"

Previously the only games that stupid rambo rushing tactic allowed success was when the LORDS all sync dropped into their Poptart CTF-3d's and Vtr-9B/DS and bunnyhopped their way as fast as they could with the PPCx2/AC5x2 meta.

Back in the day, XL didn't allow for such high speed and firepower without cost, aiming well meant it was easy to knock out a single side torso for a kill, keeping the balance and forcing players to play smart to protect their weak spots.

IMO, clanmechs are dumbing down players, and allowing for just full out rambo rushing just mashing the W key and the firebutton, because they can get away with it, often with much more success than trying to play smart.

This has trickled down into every game mode, because its much easier now to just kill and wipe out the enemy than even bother playing for the objectives.

On a daily basis, objectives mostly get ignored in favor of just circle jerking around the middle of the map in a fast murderfest.

2 things to blame for this.
1. Map layouts are almost entirely king of the hill, or circular in nature, reinforcing the "racecar" tactics that is popular.
2. Clan Xl survivability + maximum firepower + much higher average speeeds for much less risk than the IS-XL balance mechanic.

People complain that this game has become just a "fps death match"?
Its absolutely right, because since the clans, that is exactly what it has become.

Edited by Mister D, 17 October 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I know its alot better in group play usually.

But for Pub play..
Almost a complete lack of any team coordination in favor of Lemming wars.

[Primetimex]

Basic problem remains since day dot and will continue to plague this game until it is fixed ... if ever - Sidestrafe or something discusses it at length in his video on Youtube - them CRAP maps.

ALL the maps do not encourage tactical gameplay - they are non-interactive, there are no objectives and rewards for going/holding to a specific part of the map that is advantageous to the group and all the map encourages deathball maneuvers - often resulting in "running rings around tree" type of gameplay - that's all you're ever gonna get in MW:0 and not much else.

No amount of challenge is ever gonna fix that.

"Capping an imaginary mining drill / resource point" is not Mechwarrior.
"Standing in a ring to gain some silly points/aka Assault" is not Mechwarrior

so what's left? Skirmish - why bother "capping" when you can kill all 12 mechs on opposing team in less than 4 minutes?

Edited by GetterRobo, 17 October 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[Belorion]

TLDR: Nobody cares...

[LordKnightFandragon]

GetterRobo, on 17 October 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Basic problem remains since day dot and will continue to plague this game until it is fixed ... if ever - Sidestrafe or something discusses it at length in his video on Youtube - them CRAP maps.

ALL the maps do not encourage tactical gameplay - they are non-interactive, there are no objectives and rewards for going/holding to a specific part of the map that is advantageous to the group and all the map encourages deathball maneuvers - often resulting in "running rings around tree" type of gameplay - that's all you're ever gonna get in MW:0 and not much else.

No amount of challenge is ever gonna fix that.

"Capping an imaginary mining drill / resource point" is not Mechwarrior.
"Standing in a ring to gain some silly points/aka Assault" is not Mechwarrior

so what's left? Skirmish - why bother "capping" when you can kill all 12 mechs on opposing team in less than 4 minutes?

Yeah, Mechwarrior objectives is escorting a supply train across a mountain range to a field barracks in need of medical equipment. All the while the enemy launches ambushes along the way to wreck you and the convoy.

Mechwarrior is Defending a starport as you try to evacuate from a lost planet, or attack the starport so your advance guard and main forces can land and continue on the big strategic picture of hte invasion.....

Mechwarrior is Mechcommander, Mechcommander 2, MW2, 3, 4, mektek, MW2 GBL, MW2 Mercs....all those were Mechwarrior games...they may have been PVE based, but really, that just works better for Mechwarrior then a 15 minute TDM game.....some things just work better PVE then PVP, Mechwarrior is one of those things. Just as Everquest and EQ2 are better left as PVE then trying to add PVP as well...

MWO is World of Tanks with mech avatars....Call of Duty with mechs.......

[Farix]

GetterRobo, on 17 October 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Basic problem remains since day dot and will continue to plague this game until it is fixed ... if ever - Sidestrafe or something discusses it at length in his video on Youtube - them CRAP maps.

It's not so much a problem with the maps, but a problem with the basic mechanics of each mode and the lack of rewards for victories conditions that aren't "destroy all enemy mechs". Fix the mechanics and reward problems and you will see more players try for those other victory conditions. For example, back in early Open Beta, there were lots of incentives to capture the base rather than case down the last couple of mechs. However, since then, PGI striped all rewards for base captures and dramatically increased the time it took to capture a base. Maps geared more for their modes won't fix the actual problems with the modes.

Edited by Farix, 18 October 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

I just came out of a match, Where we dropped on assault, Alpine I believe and two of our team players made sure we didn't get the 20 points for a base cap.

I declared at the start of the match, "I am going to try to take the base if we are able to..." Several teammates agreed, yet two of the guys on our team was like, "NO", and "good luck with that". The one that said no, took company command, the other one, Lets call him Mr. A, decides at the end of the match, while we was up around 5 mechs on the enemy and had their base capped out at over 50% to hunt down the last mech on the enemy team, A light mech no less, which takes effort when the light was running away and hiding from us and killed him.

The guy that took command of our team says, "I don't want the challenge this weekend so...". Several on our team simply asked through out the match, "Then why are you in a Assault match in the first place? Why don't you just pick the mode that rewards you the most for your style of play? Here we just had a huge blow up in the player base and a vote on players crying because they had the choice taken away from them when they changed the option to pick your game mode


Now we have guys picking modes that they have no intention on trying to achieve the PRIMARY goal on if they are able to do so and win. WTF is it with "you people" that choose to play this way? Why do you even play the game? Mr. A at the end of the match very proudly says, after killing the last light mech on the enemies team as we have their base capped at 75%, "LOL" in chat.

While I agree that some changes should be made to maps, game modes, etc, etc, by PGI to make this game more than just a FPS game with no real content, You guys that take this attitude, will ensure even if they do change things and add some real tactics in CW or the game in general, that it will still be just a death shooter kill em all game. That's right, you guys decide what this game is or isn't. If you can't even follow or even attempt to complete the PRIMARY object for the game mode you are playing if you are able to, You are the problem in this game, Not PGI's design choices.

I would bet my left nut that the majority of the guys who are not willing to play to the PRIMARY objectives in each mode PGI sets forth, are the same ones that cried a river when PGI tried to make the MM better by removing their choice of game mode. Most likely the same guys that acted like complete babies and Rage quit in drops if they didn't get the mode or map they wanted. GTFU, or just leave the game, we all will be better off with out you cry babies! Dont take me wrong here, if you voted for the change back, and didn't act like a total baby by dropping out of any match that you didn't like, this is not a comment that is at you.... I understand if you don't like the lack of choice.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 19 October 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Chagatay, on 17 October 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Playing the most effective way to win (killing the other team) is the correct action. While I certainly would like varied play the game mechanics, the small arena deathbowl maps, ever increasing firepower and short ttk, the inability to cap at a reasonable rate, etc etc etc, do not favor the "primary objective".

I am sorry to break it to you little buddy, but the goals are stated very clear in the event notes..... let me recap them just so you understand to obtain the maximum amount of points in any given match is the most effective way to play this weekend,

Conquest and Assault modes, 20 POINTS FOR CAPPING THE BASE OR GETTING THE MOST POINTS FROM CAPS AND IT IS LISTED AS A PRIMARY GOAL!

SECONDARY GOAL, KILL ALL ENEMY MECHS 10 POINTS! What part of this did you fail to understand? Please define "The most effective way" and the "correct action" .... oh wait you already have given your very wrong opinion on the most effective way to try to win this weekend. If you really consider not trying to follow the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of the given game mode as the most effective way, and claim it is the correct way, you are simply wrong!

[Mr Beefy]

GetterRobo, on 17 October 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Basic problem remains since day dot and will continue to plague this game until it is fixed ... if ever - Sidestrafe or something discusses it at length in his video on Youtube - them CRAP maps.

ALL the maps do not encourage tactical gameplay - they are non-interactive, there are no objectives and rewards for going/holding to a specific part of the map that is advantageous to the group and all the map encourages deathball maneuvers - often resulting in "running rings around tree" type of gameplay - that's all you're ever gonna get in MW:0 and not much else.

No amount of challenge is ever gonna fix that.

"Capping an imaginary mining drill / resource point" is not Mechwarrior.
"Standing in a ring to gain some silly points/aka Assault" is not Mechwarrior

so what's left? Skirmish - why bother "capping" when you can kill all 12 mechs on opposing team in less than 4 minutes?

I hear you and understand if you don't believe the two game modes are not worth playing to you. If you have both conquest and assault unchecked in your game mode list, great you are not the problem here. At least if you drop and win, you give the player base 15 points instead of just 10 because you can't follow simple goals that PGI set forth in this event. Some take it a step farther and go out of their way to make sure they kill everything while still playing the modes that this gives the least amount of points.

These are the players that are a problem in this event. Why are they playing Modes that don't suit them? Here PGI bends and goes back to giving players choice....and they play the modes on purpose so they can handicap the player base on points? Pretty lame and borders on being a tool.

[bobF]

I'm sorry to break it to YOU little buddy, but most people a ) would rather get a bigger c-bill reward by killing the enemy b ) don't care about earning a 50% discount on behalf of the playerbase for something they wont purchase themselves.

The event this weekend is a joke.

Edited by bobF, 19 October 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[Farix]

bobF, on 19 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

I'm sorry to break it to YOU little buddy, but most people a ) would rather get a bigger c-bill reward by killing the enemy

And this is the part that should be fixed. Killing off the other team in both Assault and Conquest should have never netted the biggest rewards.

[Deathlike]

Mister D, on 17 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Its been like that since the Clan mechs came.
Seriously.

That is woefully incorrect. It's been like this since 12v12 was introduced (last year, almost a month before launch).

To the OP:

Here's a simple story to tell you...

I play ALL the modes the same way. This is in a light mech. Yes, even in Conquest.

DESPITE the objectives giving the most reward... that last mech in Conquest is still hunted down to the death. What is kinda amusing and amazing is that the last time that mech was not hunted down, the mech itself went OOB... on Forest Colony no less. So, as much you are trying to convince people to "do the objective", the tendency for players to "do it like deathmatch" has a lot to do with the mode itself... no matter how you "convince others", they will do what is "most natural" to them. In the current state of MWO... it's Skirmish with 2 other flavors in general.

[Mr Beefy]

bobF, on 19 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

I'm sorry to break it to YOU little buddy, but most people a ) would rather get a bigger c-bill reward by killing the enemy b ) don't care about earning a 50% discount on behalf of the playerbase for something they wont purchase themselves.

The event this weekend is a joke.

That sounds like a great reason BobF, but the fact is in the match we played, we would of gotten a bigger reward C-bill and XP and GXP if we would of finished the cap of the base out. This fact was brought up 2 mins before Mr. A decided to KILL the last mech on the enemy team. You guys can justify your BS play style all day long, and if PGI would not have rolled back the change they made taking away our choice of game mode, I might say hey, you have a point bobF. The fact is we lost C-bills and XP by Mr. A kill the last mech, we also only got 10 points to contribute to the player base vs. 20 for failing to complete the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

New players are gonna be needed to pull CW off, so what if you guys that play this way have the mechs or bays already and don't care if we get them too. The point is you all have a choice to opt out of the modes that you don't like, so why are they playing the modes they don't like again???? Hmmmm tools

Farix, on 19 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

And this is the part that should be fixed. Killing off the other team in both Assault and Conquest should have never netted the biggest rewards.

And in this case they wouldn't have! That is what is so jacked up about what they are choosing to do, plus they can uncheck the game modes they don't want to play. Point is they are tools doing it on purpose out of spite? Just the kinda players we need in this player base.....what a joke

[Mr Beefy]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

That is woefully incorrect. It's been like this since 12v12 was introduced (last year, almost a month before launch).

To the OP:

Here's a simple story to tell you...

I play ALL the modes the same way. This is in a light mech. Yes, even in Conquest.

DESPITE the objectives giving the most reward... that last mech in Conquest is still hunted down to the death. What is kinda amusing and amazing is that the last time that mech was not hunted down, the mech itself went OOB... on Forest Colony no less. So, as much you are trying to convince people to "do the objective", the tendency for players to "do it like deathmatch" has a lot to do with the mode itself... no matter how you "convince others", they will do what is "most natural" to them. In the current state of MWO... it's Skirmish with 2 other flavors in general.

I understand what you're saying, and I am not trying to convert these guys. Its more of exposing the a$$hats and tools that have a choice to play the style and mode they want, MY GOD, PGI gave choice back to us and yet they still go out of their way to not follow PRIMARY GOALS of the given match. No matter how bad PGI's choices have been, or the content in the game, they are making it a death match by playing the way they do. They will be the first and the loudest on the forums crying about what this game is...but are a big reason for why it is this way.

[Deathlike]

Mr Beefy, on 19 October 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

I understand what you're saying, and I am not trying to convert these guys. Its more of exposing the a$$hats and tools that have a choice to play the style and mode they want, MY GOD, PGI gave choice back to us and yet they still go out of their way to not follow PRIMARY GOALS of the given match. No matter how bad PGI's choices have been, or the content in the game, they are making it a death match by playing the way they do. They will be the first and the loudest on the forums crying about what this game is...but are a big reason for why it is this way.

Um... PGI's current design of the objections are faulty, and are played in the manner that reflects winning. The players are not at fault for doing what they think is best for winning. So, the reality is that the fault actually solely on PGI.

I know the players have wanted "the other objectives" being primary, but the matches IN GENERAL are played 90% like Skirmish. This is not somethings that I'd like to exaggerate. Again, the sole responsibility of this behavior is PGI's.

Note: There have been threads discussing how PGI could improve Conquest and Assault... and AFAIK PGI has not put enough effort into it previously, and what we get is exactly the result of not doing much for the modes.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 October 2014 - 09:26 AM.