119 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

I don't think that's accurate in terms of the engine. The primary variant listed has the same stock engine as the Hunchback and Centurion (so, it will inevitably have a 275 engine cap based on those mechs). The second variant is as fast a Trebuchet, so it may have some potential there.




Well, it's distinct compared to other 50 tonners, but not for mediums. The Wolverine-6R (55t) has a gun arm and so does the Vindicator-1X (45t) and both have JJs (Centurions don't apply here). I know the BJs have the ballistic arms for the most part, but the mechs I've mentioned have arm actuators... which this mech does have (I've just looked it up). This implies arm articulation AND low slung arms.

That's about it. The Wolverine-6R is pretty bad unfortunately... and I don't even know how to put a positive spin on the ballistic oriented Vindicator.

Yea it's kinda as I figured. As a whole it's hitboxes, hard points and locations along with jump jets do not distinguish it from others really

It's going to need to have some serious quirks to help differentiate it

I would hope not just weapons and armour but also something more unique in regards to either being a bit n run mech or bring able to lay down a huge amount if firepower quickly as hinted .... Maybe amazing cool down it no buffs to your heat efficiency forcing it to fire then retreat

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm not expecting this to compete with the BJ-1 unless it has a Spider like profile compared to the other mediums, especially given that the BJ-1 can do AC20 and lasers; but at least this will be a better option than the poor Vindi/Wolverine.

Well, we'd have to see the scale+hitboxes ultimately.

I dunno... setting the bar low is not the thing I'd like to look at initially. Some thoughts may be revised as more info is posted on Wednesday.

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I do wonder what they will give the Wolverine 6K in quirks though, that thing is really bad even compared to the other Wolverines (7K was almost fun as the Griffin 1N).

The 1N was alright... if you used the left side as the shield side. The 1N was FAR FAR easier to deal with than the 7K 6R. In comparison, the Griffin-1S was worse, and I enjoyed the Wolverine-6K immensely, despite not having JJs on it (laser arm that was kinda Star Wars epic, but not).

Edited by Deathlike, 20 October 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

The 1N was alright... if you used the left side as the shield side. The 1N was FAR FAR easier to deal with than the 7K. In comparison, the Griffin-1S was worse, and I enjoyed the Wolverine-6K immensely, despite not having JJs on it (laser arm that was kinda Star Wars epic, but not).

The 1S was one of the worst to grind through, havn't started the 6K yet though, been waiting to save up enough for a large enough XL.

As for the 7K vs 1N, honestly they are both squishy, the only difference is the 1N allows you full articulation with all your lasers and use your left side as a shield while the 7K has all SRMs on shoulder mounts which means you can poptart with your SRMs without exposing your mech as much.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 October 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

I your honest opinion, is it better to have here in mwo a 50 tonner with 64kph (and loooow engine cap) OR should it be better to have a 40 tonner with 118kph as standard ??

ENF-5D runs 84 kph.

But that said, they serve in totally different roles.

Assassin is my favorite MEdium, but totally different. ASN is gonna be a bigger FS9. Enforcer is another trooper.

Both have their place.

[kapusta11]

It will be able to carry Gauss+ERPPC with XL255, Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous armor, 3 tons of ammo and run at 90kph. Now you just need to give it small/narrow/both hitboxes and 1 energy hardpoint in the RT.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 October 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

It will be able to carry Gauss+ERPPC with XL255, Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous armor, 3 tons of ammo and run at 90kph. Now you just need to give it small/narrow/both hitboxes and 1 energy hardpoint in the RT.

You also won't have JJs which makes you worse than the TBT-7K which has higher mounts and enough torso pitch to make up for the lack of arm weapons.

[kapusta11]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

You also won't have JJs which makes you worse than the TBT-7K which has higher mounts and enough torso pitch to make up for the lack of arm weapons.

7K has no JJs either, hardpoints in both torsos require you to expose yourself more and Enforcer's torso pitch is currently unknown. I'm not saying 7K is bad, Shadowhawk is better than both of them.

Edited by kapusta11, 20 October 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 October 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

ENF-5D runs 84 kph.

But that said, they serve in totally different roles.

Assassin is my favorite MEdium, but totally different. ASN is gonna be a bigger FS9. Enforcer is another trooper.

Both have their place.

Esactly. We need that role.
The only fatty light we have is CDA, and I have abstinence symptoms of a new one: it's so nice to grow up a little kid that wreck all up....

Tell to Russ please

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

The 1S was one of the worst to grind through, havn't started the 6K yet though, been waiting to save up enough for a large enough XL.

As for the 7K vs 1N, honestly they are both squishy, the only difference is the 1N allows you full articulation with all your lasers and use your left side as a shield while the 7K has all SRMs on shoulder mounts which means you can poptart with your SRMs without exposing your mech as much.

Sorry, I wanted to clarify (due to massive mech confusion).

The Griffin-1N is a Phoenix variant, with all weapons on the right side of the mech.
The Griffin-1S has the 4E right arm, and the missiles on the LT... and a really crappy variant.
The Wolverine-6K is the non-JJ variant, with the 4E right arm. It's an insane laser boat (it's kinda optimal in the current "meta") when you add the 5th laser that is the head. Too bad that means lots of arm shielding and practice, which the Wolverine has plenty of.
The Wolverine-6R is a Phoenix variant, and essentially an abomination (Tier-5-----------------).
The Wolverine-7K is the one with the energy arm and missile torsos. This is actually the best Wolverine variant (my build is kinda based off the Kintaro-19 or Kintaro-20 ultimately).

The Wolverine-7K is actually easily better than the Griffin-1N... but that's not saying much. Head TAG is actually kinda cool, when you consider the torso twist involved.

I don't want to mistake this for the Trebuchet-7K, where it is the best Trebuchet of the bunch IMO (although the hero is interesting) despite having no JJs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 October 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

7K has no JJs either, hardpoints in both torsos require you to expose yourself more and Enforcer's torso pitch is currently unknown. I'm not saying 7K is bad, Shadowhawk is better than both of them.

The Enforcer's energy hardpoints are on the opposite side to that of the Ballistics (it isn't like the Dragon Slayer or 3D), so the 7K would expose less. If that's the case you may want re-evaluate what you are trying to do if the 7K can do it better (though its the only Trebuchet that can actually take advantage of that amazing torso pitch sadly).

[Dawnstealer]

Metus regem, on 20 October 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

Just more Sphereoid trash, for the scrap yard...

I fully plan on using the appropriately-shaped right arm of the Zeus for the "Fist of Fury." It requires a long, rubber glove...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Sorry, I wanted to clarify (due to massive mech confusion).

The Griffin-1N is a Phoenix variant, with all weapons on the right side of the mech.
The Griffin-1S has the 4E right arm, and the missiles on the LT... and a really crappy variant.
The Wolverine-6K is the non-JJ variant, with the 4E right arm. It's an insane laser boat (it's kinda optimal in the current "meta") when you add the 5th laser that is the head. Too bad that means lots of arm shielding and practice, which the Wolverine has plenty of.
The Wolverine-6R is a Phoenix variant, and essentially an abomination (Tier-5-----------------).
The Wolverine-7K is the one with the energy arm and missile torsos. This is actually the best Wolverine variant (my build is kinda based off the Kintaro-19 or Kintaro-20 ultimately).

The Wolverine-7K is actually easily better than the Griffin-1N... but that's not saying much. Head TAG is actually kinda cool, when you consider the torso twist involved.

I don't want to mistake this for the Trebuchet-7K, where it is the best Trebuchet of the bunch IMO (although the hero is interesting) despite having no JJs.

Wait, who was confused, the only time we brought up the TBT-7K I labeled it as such?

I do find it interesting that the despite both having their advantages the GRF-1N is listed as higher tier than the WVR-7K (Wolverine has a bulkier frame than the Griffin while the Griffin has a broader CT). Though I gotta say I dislike the 6K more than the 6R (AC2/ML/3 ASRM6 is bad, but it isnt Trenchbucket bad), partially due to bad laser hit reg currently.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 October 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[kapusta11]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

The Enforcer's energy hardpoints are on the opposite side to that of the Ballistics (it isn't like the Dragon Slayer or 3D), so the 7K would expose less. If that's the case you may want re-evaluate what you are trying to do if the 7K can do it better (though its the only Trebuchet that can actually take advantage of that amazing torso pitch sadly).

RA+LT = RT+LT in terms of exposure time, plus no one knows what hardpoint third variant will have.

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Wait, who was confused, the only time we brought up the TBT-7K I labeled it as such?

I meant to say that the Wolverine-7K was easier than the Griffin-1N. I posted the edit after realizing what I meant. I actually kept the Wolverine-7K after grinding that out (although, it's getting very little playtime at this point, well... that's for any non-Light for now). The 1N had its own sets of issues, but arguably it's more or less the same between the two.

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I do find it interesting that the despite both having their advantages the GRF-1N is listed as higher tier than the WVR-7K. Though I gotta say I dislike the 6K more than the 6R (AC2/ML/3 ASRM6 is bad, but it isnt Trenchbucket bad), partially due to bad laser hit reg currently.

I'd hazard a guess that people don't like Wolverines in general due to what you'd have to grind to make the 7K decent (it's the Raven-3L or Spider-5D line of reasoning for grinding). The Griffin has arguably the most productive missile boat, and the Phoenix variant (1N) can be used alright, so it gets more love (plus, there's the hero Sparky).

With laser hitreg, there is some practice and timing that's required, due to hitreg. So, I don't know what to tell you, except that arm articulation is godly when lasers are involved.

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

The Enforcer's energy hardpoints are on the opposite side to that of the Ballistics (it isn't like the Dragon Slayer or 3D), so the 7K would expose less. If that's the case you may want re-evaluate what you are trying to do if the 7K can do it better (though its the only Trebuchet that can actually take advantage of that amazing torso pitch sadly).

The great thing about the Trebuchet-7K... it does everything you'd wish a Centurion (D or A, when missiles are not involved), but better AND with shield arms (although, the dynamic hardpoints revamp buffed the missile arm).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

With laser hitreg, there is some practice and timing that's required, due to hitreg. So, I don't know what to tell you, except that arm articulation is godly when lasers are involved.

Oh I know it takes some time getting back into the habit of lag shooting, it's just a pain in the ass that you have to do it with all the hitscan weapons considering you don't have to with projectile weapons (talk about backwards).
I'm curious to see what they do with the Wolverine hero though (jumping 4SP maybe?), as the Sparky was a great addition to the Griffin.

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

The great thing about the Trebuchet-7K... it does everything you'd wish a Centurion (D or A, when missiles are not involved), but better AND with shield arms (although, the dynamic hardpoints revamp buffed the missile arm).

My only problem with it ever was the hitboxes still seemed slighted towards the CT (maybe because I was derping and not twisting, it's very possible). It is a great mech to have on candy mountain in alpine when someone decides to run the gully behind it and you are still able to blast them because dat torso pitch. Those arms though take an amazing amount of damage, I'm surprised at how well they shield you sometimes.

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 October 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:

Oh I know it takes some time getting back into the habit of lag shooting, it's just a pain in the ass that you have to do it with all the hitscan weapons considering you don't have to with projectile weapons (talk about backwards).
I'm curious to see what they do with the Wolverine hero though (jumping 4SP maybe?), as the Sparky was a great addition to the Griffin.

The only "obvious" option is to build it mostly like the 7K, and move the head laser to the Left Arm. Otherwise, you could always do some sort of inverted Griffin variation... probably something based off of the Griffin-3M (move the 3M's torso laser to the head, and copy the rest) or Griffin-1N (stack the energy to one side, and missiles to a side torso, possibly opposing each other). I'm not saying it's a great idea, but you only have so many ideas to throw around.

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My only problem with it ever was the hitboxes still seemed slighted towards the CT (maybe because I was derping and not twisting, it's very possible). It is a great mech to have on candy mountain in alpine when someone decides to run the gully behind it and you are still able to blast them because dat torso pitch. Those arms though take an amazing amount of damage, I'm surprised at how well they shield you sometimes.

It's a large mech, and mistaken for a Highlander and long distance (screw you Alpine).

The only reason why the arms shield you so well... is because they are freaking large. That's also the reason why most buckets suck... because they have so few torso weapons (7K has the majority of weapons there).

I have come to the conclusion that if you are at least 50 tons or so, having 2E and 2B in any combination with the side torsos.. you have a solid build like the Trebuchet-7K, given the arms are used as a shield.

Examples of this in action include the Banshee and Catapult-K2. The Cataphracts come close (2E, 1B). If such a variant existed on a Shadowhawk (hero)... well, you'll know what will happen...

Edited by Deathlike, 20 October 2014 - 11:23 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

It's a large mech, and mistaken for a Highlander and long distance (screw you Alpine).

The only reason why the arms shield you so well... is because they are freaking large. That's also the reason why most buckets suck... because they have so few torso weapons (7K has the majority of weapons there).

The sad part is despite its largeness it has long hanging arms that rival the Hunchback's (Summoner arms in other words).

Deathlike, on 20 October 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

I have come to the conclusion that if you are at least 50 tons or so, having 2E and 2B in any combination with the side torsos.. you have a solid build like the Trebuchet-7K, given the arms are used as a shield.

Examples of this in action include the Banshee and Catapult-K2. The Cataphracts come close (2E, 1B). If such a variant existed on a Shadowhawk (hero)... well, you'll know what will happen...

Don't give PGI any ideas now, we can't have another Dragonslayer/Ember in yet another weight class (though if you wanna count the Firebrand that would put one in every weight class).

[Wintersdark]

Asmudius Heng, on 20 October 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Yea it's kinda as I figured. As a whole it's hitboxes, hard points and locations along with jump jets do not distinguish it from others really

It's going to need to have some serious quirks to help differentiate it

I would hope not just weapons and armour but also something more unique in regards to either being a bit n run mech or bring able to lay down a huge amount if firepower quickly as hinted .... Maybe amazing cool down it no buffs to your heat efficiency forcing it to fire then retreat

While I like the current crop of example quirks, I'm really hoping they spend some time along these lines making mechs unique. The reality is now on the IS side we've got so many chassis that there is a real danger of identical hard point bags happening.

The quirks are a great place to differentiate between mechs but they'll need more than just weapon quirks to make them really shine.

[Appogee]

Meh.

I already have too many Mechs.

What I need is interplanetary battles to keep me interested in actually using them.