276 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Hmm, great reward system....Disconnect reward, Pressing Battle boots you back to garage, and makes rejoin ineffective. You will be forced to sit out the match.......

Just now....my mech is actually in a game right now, im just waiting for the loss to update.....

[Mawai]

Russ Bullock, on 21 October 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

By the way I am having Alex our designer who worked on the Rewards 2.0 to give you guys an update. We have a tiny amount of prelim data.

He will share a bit of that and our plan to collect a decent amount of data before we make tweaks.

Please share the data but please also include the distribution as well as overall averages. There are bound to be players making millions of cbills and large amounts of xp from this ... particularly in group games where the organization is inherently higher ... but so far I am seeing nothing but a nerf to cbill and xp earnings in the solo queue.

If I split off to flank or hit and run then my team stands a greater chance of losing in solo since we are not staying together and actions are not coordinated. Also, lance mates don't necessarily stick around ... the only bonus I managed to get a couple of times was light protector but that only happens if I am hanging around a heavy or assault and not out harrassing or skirmishing. The main source of income used to be assists but it has been significantly nerfed and some of the other rewards are either mutually exclusive (it is difficult to protect and flank at the same time) or require team mate cooperation to acquire.

Anyway, I will be interested to see the data. I hope you also have data pre-nerf for direct comparison.

Edited by Mawai, 21 October 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[BourbonFaucet]

THE GRIND NEVER ENDS

[Mr Beefy]

Mawai, on 21 October 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

Please share the data but please also include the distribution as well as overall averages. There are bound to be players making millions of cbills and large amounts of xp from this ... particularly in group games where the organization is inherently higher ... but so far I am seeing nothing but a nerf to cbill and xp earnings in the solo queue.

If I split off to flank or hit and run then my team stands a greater chance of losing in solo since we are not staying together and actions are not coordinated. Also, lance mates don't necessarily stick around ... the only bonus I managed to get a couple of times was light protector but that only happens if I am hanging around a heavy or assault and not out harrassing or skirmishing. The main source of income used to be assists but it has been significantly nerfed and some of the other rewards are either mutually exclusive (it is difficult to protect and flank at the same time) or require team mate cooperation to acquire.

Anyway, I will be interested to see the data. I hope you also have data pre-nerf for direct comparison.

While I like your enthusiasm, bottom line if PGI doesn't take advantage of the PR roll they are on right now and increase in game winnings by 30% min. the grind will ruin this for obtaining and keeping new players regardless if they make this into more than a FPS game that we have now. If they can't let the flood gates open on this, and keep the prices they have now for c-bills on mechs and modules and everything else in game for c-bills while doing this, this not productive for building a new and healthy player base that worries about team play instead of how in the hell I am gonna get those c-bills and XP, TEAM be damned!

[EgoSlayer]

After 5 matches I have some limited data using my history data from my Ilya of 140 matches (XP per match) and my skirmish data from 404 matches (C-Bills per match). Yes they are not related, but 404 matches gives a pretty good aggregate average for C-Bills/match and it's not influenced by base cap/conquest tickets.
History data - premium time was rarely on, only from awards so the numbers are close to base values:
XP/M=868
CB/M=113,010

Five matches 3 wins, 2 losses.
Wins:
XP/M=1,384
CB/M=170,904

Losses:
XP/M=508
CB/M=66,956

Total average:
XP/M=1033
CB/M=129,325

So overall my tiny data set is showing a slight improvement in XP but a bit less in CBills (w/o hero bonus it would be about 100K/match). There is another benefit I noticed though - more kills. The kills most damage item is crediting kills, even after death. In my last win at the time of death I had 1 kill showing, by end of match it was 4.

Losses are literally paying half though, so any losing streak is going to be a killer.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 21 October 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[NovaFury]

Overall I see a slight decrease to my earnings, particularly in fire support or line builds. The reduction in assists and the fact that assaults cannot get brawling, but don't get a bonus for damage received while within range of engaged allies makes you need every kill. You can't let things you crippled get away to be finished by stragglers if you want any money. Gauss Direwolf seems better than CUAC Direwolf simply for kill-secured assurance.

Strikers, particularly my SCR-P(I) and Bodyguards, the new CN-AH Verdandi I gave whirl, seem about on parity. I lose out on assists and saviours, but I still get my rundown kills and plenty of flank and hit-'n-run bonuses with the former, and protected medium and brawing solo kills (Light mechs trying to flank my chosen assault) in the latter to make up for it.

Lights are hilarious. I ran a Raven-3L with TAG and NARC and got 120k in a game from tag/narc assist alone, to say nothing of assists, a random kill I picked up with my defensive MPLAS, and winning itself. If you're not running acquisition gear though you won't see much improvement.

Any game you lose is even worse than it used to be, though.

Really what we need is Kill Underweight Bonus, a % bonus based on taking out things that are bigger than you. Star underweight was an honor bonus in the original MechWarrior 2 after all, in addition to being very impressive in general in clan trials of position.

Edited by NovaFury, 21 October 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Sembrin]

So after playing a dozen or so games, my thoughts. I liked the idea (still do) but the implementation is horrible. I just lost a game where I got 34k cbills. I haven't done that since I was a brand spanking newb. I'm a 98% FTP player - I'm not even going to pretend otherwise. If this game cost money I'd be out of here - it just doesn't offer enough (imo) to pay real cash for. I've spent a grand total of $30 on mechbays. That's it. I stick around because the game is free and fun, and I see a lot of potential in the future (where I may actually spend a lot more cash). But with the new reward system? I just don't know if I can stomach getting mechs any slower. You guys have been on a roll lately, and it's been making me really feel this game has a good future ahead. Don't **** it up now and nerf cbill income. You'll chase away the fringe players who spend a couple bucks here and there.

[Bront]

Rhaegor, on 21 October 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Buy a hero mech if you care that much about c-bills. Buy premium time if you really care that much about c-bills. Otherwise, just play and have fun in this F2P game.

At this point, the rewards have gotten pittiful enough that Premium Time is practically worthless as well. I'm already upset that I've basically lost a day of premium time to this nerf. CBill rewards are bad for good games, and terribad for not so good games. Using consumables means you'll likely lose money. Games where I felt I was doing great I barely broke 100,000. I had one game I did horrible and got nearly 200,000, and I broke 200,000 once in a good game in a hero with PT (Thanks to flanking bonuses delivered by LRM fire)

In 4 hours of playing, I would have only topped 100,000 cbills twice without hero/PT bonuses, and I had a game with the PT and Hero bonus where I got under 40,000 (a game I did over 100 damage in) and 70 XP.

It's gotten me to seriously consider if I want to continue to play a game that makes advancement and buying new things such a chore that I'm no longer having fun doing it. I don't rage quit, so I'm not going to go storming out right now, and I seriously hope PGI reconsiders where it wants it's CBill grind to be at.

Look. I like the ideas of the rewards. Heck, I think they're a good start. But kills, assists, and damage don't reward much anymore, and the net game rewards are just really, really low now, and that doesn't give me any incentive to keep playing. My goal was to save up 2.5 million tonight (with PT) to buy the Shadowhawk 2K. I had 4 hours of play with PT and hero mechs, and I'm still short.

[DasSibby]

Love them.

They're super addicting, and they inherently drive people to be more strategic and play with the team instead of just going for kills (this isn't COD...)

I'm not actually kinda excited to run my mediums and lights again now...

Oh, and PGI? Here's how to handle the haters. In the meantime... I'll be readying my wallet to by the newest IS Mech Pack...

[Brody319]

DasSibby, on 21 October 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Love them.

They're super addicting, and they inherently drive people to be more strategic and play with the team instead of just going for kills (this isn't COD...)

I'm not actually kinda excited to run my mediums and lights again now...

Oh, and PGI? Here's how to handle the haters. In the meantime... I'll be readying my wallet to by the newest IS Mech Pack...

In the previous system the reward for component destruction and kills added up to being about the same as an assist when it came to c-bills. Now you get nickle and dimed repeatedly. 1 kill 10 assists with 700+ damage and making 130K c-bills is ******* awful. This isn't encouraging teamwork, its encouraging lights to just hold tag on something, heavies and assaults to spam lrms and mediums to kill steal.

The old system made it feel like you didn't do better or worse averaging 100K on a loss and 150K on a win, but now its 70K on a loss and 100K on a win. Doesn't seem to matter how I play I cant seem to get over 150K now. Its not encouraging helping, its encouraging kill stealing, missile spam, and tag usage. Not tag for missiles but just to squeeze as much C-bills as you can.

Lights run in, spam R for scouting bonuses, drop a UAV, then run to a tiny corner and hold tag on the enemy. Even then they are lucky to make more than 150K c-bills

[TygerLily]

My rewards tonight (with premium):


W/L Kills Assist Dmg
Cbills Chassis



L, 0 2 280
61,000 Cent AH

W, 1 10 378
185,000 Stormcrow PRIME(I)

W, 0 9 391
193,900 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 1 9 206
233643 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 1 11 399
282,419 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 2 7 273
270,489 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 1 4 174
174,682 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

L, 0 5 117
55,991 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 0 6 167
198,551 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

w, 2 6 ---
138,206 Jager AC2/5s

w, 1 5 346
144,594 Jager AC2/5s

L, 0 1 302
37,000 Ilya x3UAC5

W, 2 6 572
313,373 Ilya x3UAC5

L, 0 3 243
63,299 Ilya x3UAC5

w, 0 10 153
175,802 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS (I)

L, 0 4 150
151,606 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

W, 0 9 382
223,458 Kitfox ECM/x3AMS(I)

Edited by TygerLily, 21 October 2014 - 08:50 PM.

[KhanCipher]

Ok, i play in group queue (you know, that place where you really need to have a decent amount of teamwork by default, unless you play during euro hours which is just as painful as playing solo), and these new reward seems to have dropped my average earnings down.

And from what i can tell, in order to farm c-bills you need to game the system, in order to win you need to use mech that will be very hit and miss on c-bill income.

[Andi Nagasia]

Main problem with this system is on a solo kills vs Assists
Assists are now worth, 2500 down 4000 from 6500,
now assuming a solo kill,
kill........Kill damage.........component.........solo kill..= total
4000........5000....................2300..............10000...= 21300?
not including a 4500 Savior or Defensive along with that,
so solo kill= 21300, and an assist= 2500,

in all my matches tonight i had teammates moving in-front of me for the kill,
its gotten really bad ive have matches ive won where ive only gotten 60,000-100,000 C-bills,
and on a loss(16 or so out of the 25 matches ive played before posting) 18,000-55,000 C-bills,

if you want to promote team play get rid of the Solo Reward, and double all other rewards,

[Sadist Cain]

Ph30nix, on 21 October 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

maybe they should add a bonus for concentrated fire if you and X# of your lance mates fire on the same target you get a bonus, maybe increase it based on # of lance mates firing on it.

Ohhh hello... That would indeed be very good.

[Thoummim]

DasSibby, on 21 October 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Love them.

They're super addicting, and they inherently drive people to be more strategic and play with the team instead of just going for kills (this isn't COD...)

I'm not actually kinda excited to run my mediums and lights again now...

You do understand that the new reward makes kill stealing the best way to earn money ?

[DasSibby]

Thoummim, on 22 October 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

You do understand that the new reward makes kill stealing the best way to earn money ?

Kill stealing has always been the "best way" to earn money. Now there are incentives to actually play AS a team.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thoummim, on 22 October 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

You do understand that the new reward makes kill stealing the best way to earn money ?

It was called Assists prior to and racked in lots of bonuses for those of us who like to aid and assist in killing the enemy.

[TamCoan]

Had a wide range of earnings. Lowest was around 15k for a loss, highest was about 250k for a win. Average all of those together and it seems that I'm getting less overall than before. Oddest thing I experienced was the number of people now jumping in front of me trying to finish off my target. Usually results in SRMs into their back as they are literally jump-jetting or hill dropping in front of me.

Most frustrating is getting 50k cbills/300 exp for a win in the new, slow atlas. Best win I has was with my mad-dog brawler. 4 kills, 6 assists, 800 damage and a slew of bonuses for brawling, protecting, etc...

IMHO if they just bump up loss earnings to a minimum of 40k, I'd be fine with the overall changes.

[Moriquendi86]

If you are getting lower rewards in games than you used to please try to adjust your playstyle to the new reward system. It will not only make you earn more money but it will also make you better player and more useful for the team. With 24 players trying to lay like that and will have much closer game.

[VanillaG]

Thoummim, on 22 October 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

You do understand that the new reward makes kill stealing the best way to earn money ?

Actually kill stealing prevents other players from potentially getting the Solo and potentially the Brawling award. Getting the most damage pays more than the kill. The new system rewards sticking with a target until it is killed instead of jumping between targets to farm assists.