165 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

On the other hand - solo kill is the only option for a Assault to earn money.
With other Mechs you may generate c-bills in other ways.

But you are right - the difference between 49% and 51% could be the difference between a ping of 100 and a ping of 121

Maybe the Assist should get a weight factor.
For example
10% = 1500
20% = 3000
30% = 6000
40% = 9000
50% = 12000

anyhow - considering the figures.

Players that think they are SOLO Rambos - in assaults without the ability to be incredible good shots - will get punished by this reward system.
Users with other weight classes - and team players shouldn't recognize a big difference

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 October 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Karl Streiger, on 21 October 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

On the other hand - solo kill is the only option for a Assault to earn money.
With other Mechs you may generate c-bills in other ways.

But you are right - the difference between 49% and 51% could be the difference between a ping of 100 and a ping of 121

Maybe the Assist should get a weight factor.
For example
10% = 1500
20% = 3000
30% = 6000
40% = 9000
50% = 12000

Why not just split the kill reward fairly? Right now killing one enemy can give your team up to 21300+11x2500= 48 800 C-bills. (1 guy got the solo kill, 11 others smeared the target with 1 laser blast)

Just split this money proportionally to damage done to the target.

[Sagamore]

80Bit, on 21 October 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

In the interest of full disclosure, after I made my above post, I played one more match, this time in a heavy:




I think it is fair to say this represents the high end of what most players could make on their best match. For me, this is a pretty rare showing. Again I think the new reward structure is nice, but there is clearly no substitute for bringing a lot of firepower in a big mech when it comes to making C-Bills. I would be willing to have this match reward less if the other two I posted were rewarding more.

Impressive numbers but 140k of that is from Mech Bonus / Premium time.

180k (your earnings without the bonus) is not unattainable and, in fact, I would expect a game where you got 3 kills and assisted the rest with almost 1k damage to earn your MORE!

My highest earning games in the past had to do with "Savior Kills". Not sure if they are still the big RNG money earner that they used to be though.

[Kmieciu]

Sagamore, on 21 October 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Impressive numbers but 140k of that is from Mech Bonus / Premium time.

180k (your earnings without the bonus) is not unattainable and, in fact, I would expect a game where you got 3 kills and assisted the rest with almost 1k damage to earn your MORE!

My highest earning games in the past had to do with "Savior Kills". Not sure if they are still the big RNG money earner that they used to be though.

Nope. Savior Kills and Assists got nerfed.
Now you have to solo the enemies while tagging them. That's role warfare.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 October 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[Moriquendi86]

I will start with saying that all my games yesterday were amazing even on loss in solo queue so maybe I'm biased when saying that I love new system.
The new reward system seams to encourage playing the game in a way that I always tried and wanted to play MWO and it's more focused on roles something everybody always wanted in this game. At the same time it seams to punish unwanted behaviors like light mech farmers who runned forward at the beginning of the game, getting small damage on as many mechs they could and dying fast, which would get them plenty of money if their team would manage to win the game while they would do the same in few other games.
So maybe if you are getting smaller rewards you should try to change your playstyle in order to get more c-bills, hopefully it will make you better player, more useful for the team and have more fun in the process.
Just to give some example, I've been grinding Mad Dogs yesterday and even in the one which is build to be LRM boat I was getting couple of "Scouting" rewards. Even in games with 3 lights who rushed forward I got 5 of them so clearly someone didn't even press "R" to get their money while they tried to scout.
That said it doesn't mean that system can't be improved. I would like to see some rewards for covering mechs with AMS and ECM effectively.

Dear PGI, please don't roll back good changes like you did with voting system, change the values a bit if needed but don't roll back. This time players should adapt to this new meta.
At same time it looks like plenty of players don't understand this changes so maybe some detailed forum post with image examples and stuff would help more than any system adjustment. And if you'll do such post please put it in launcher as well, on first place in this big box where Wave 2 ad is right now. A lot of players in chat were surprised that they got free mechs in this patch so try to reach those who never visit website or reddit.

[Runs With Scissors]

Ive been trying out my new atlas and my earnings have dipped a bit. oh wait, I forgot it gets a 30% c-bill bonus, my earnings have dropped ALOT.

you earn more if you have a really good game, but significantly less if u have an average match, and garbage if u get stomped. (seriously I earned barely 17k one match, didn't think that was possible)

the bonuses also reward murderballing, kill stealing and TAG/NARC missle spam. mind you ive got nothing against lurms, but the bonuses mean every match is constant deluge, I'm up to 2 tons ams ammo and im still running dry.

the bonus c-bill rewards should be added to what we had before. if you're going to just nerf earnings to keep the match rewards the same as before, why bother putting them in in the first place?

[Pygar]

Gotta say, new rewards system.....ouch. I could have had a better night, but in losing I learned to be super tight about my consumables...even in a couple wins didn't make enough back to net very much after module refills.

I understand wanting to pressure players into buying things with MC, but it's nice to be able to buy at least some things with C-bills...making the pitiful money (again patially my fault) I did tonight it's going to take a long time to just unlock and buy weapon modules- ouch

[Quinn_Malachite]

Ok, here's a big issue for both Locust pilots in MWO at the moment.

The quirk system is going to turn the Locust 1V into an ER LL hit and run chassis, but the ER LL only does 9 damage, this means you will need to fire twice, that is hang around where you can be shot at for 6+ seconds, to get the 10 damage you need for hit and run, while other lights that can mount two ER LL will only need to fire once to pick up hit and run.

[Mr Beefy]

Kmieciu, on 21 October 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

That's the problem right there:
Solo kill:
solo kill= 21300 (for a player did >51% damage and had the last shot)
assist= 2500 (for a player that did <49% damage)

If 2 people are shooting at 1 mech, one of them can get 8x more c-bills. That's pretty random.

Before the change, the assists were worth so much more. You could earn money just by distracting the enemy mechs while your teammates cored their backs. Now there is no reason to risk your life in a light mech. Just put TAG on your Daishi and try to solo every enemy.




You gave almost everybody two hero mechs with +30% c-bill bonus and the earnings only dropped 5 to 10% ? Working as intended...

This is one of the very core problems... PGI sets up point rewards giving C-bills and XP gxp base on certain things that people do in game to get the C-bills. They then make the pay outs for matches so low, players are starved for them and will figure out new ways to exploit what pays the highest. The best intentions with what they reward/type of play is completely wasted if the rewards are painfully low and the grind is to long for the rewards. The core problem is the low pay out of the old system and this system isn't looking like it rewards much better. The ideas and reason why they give the rewards for a certain thing you do in game isn't the problem, they are great ideas and I love the new system. They need to raise the rewards by 30% across the board, and give out a bonus on top of that when winning by capping or taking the enemy base of $75,000-100k and many problems will solve themselves with lack of team play.

[Ens]

I like it, because it´s really rewarding my kind of playstyle: being active

It also slaps me in the face for doing nothing!

[Bracchus]

I think that we need to learn what nets us cash before we throw the new system under the bus. When actually doing what I'm suppose I earn lots of cash and xp, when playing as I have been the last year, not soo much... So I like the new system and hope they keep it around!

[Dragomir Zelenka]

It gets painful with the new system sometimes.

a 131 match score, with 2 kills, 7 assists, 10 spot bonuses, component destructions and assorted other bonuses out the wazoo, plus 722 damage = 136k and 900 XP.

That sort of sucks.

[jozkhan]

It seems you have deliberately chosen to inject 'kill stealing' into MWO when it wasnt there before... You do realize that 'kill stealing' comes with its own very vocal, very disruptive in-game community right? As any League of Legends player would be able to tell you...

But team chat lighting up with players QQing about KSers and potential TKs for KS or other tantrums is something that has been avoided in MWO and really shouldnt be put into the game now by design.

The change to assists is far too great and needs to be brought back to parity with kills in order to avoid at least some of this. Other bonuses such as First Blood, First Kill of the match can be brought in to add more flavour and competitive rewards.

Edited by jozkhan, 22 October 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[Bracchus]

jozkhan, on 22 October 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Other bonuses such as First Blood, First Kill of the match can be brought in to add more flavour and competitive rewards.

That wouldn't be that great, everyone is allready chasing the rabbit, with those rewards it would be even worse.

[Jetfire]

I have seen my wins/losses actually even out a bit with maybe a 10% gain on overall income. I tend to perform pretty well (400+ damage and 1-4 kills) in most matches whether I win or lose so now I seem to be rewarded for playing well even if the team throws the round. I could see where players that are doing very little damage and playing poorly could suffer from low win and loss income, but that seems pretty fair as rewards should come from good play, not just dropping over and over hoping other people will win you matches.

Overall I REALLY like this method of compensation a lot.

Edited by Jetfire, 22 October 2014 - 02:53 AM.

[Jetfire]

Dragomir Zelenka, on 22 October 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

It gets painful with the new system sometimes.

a 131 match score, with 2 kills, 7 assists, 10 spot bonuses, component destructions and assorted other bonuses out the wazoo, plus 722 damage = 136k and 900 XP.

That sort of sucks.

The problem is that what was being over rewarded before was straight up damage so Heavy and Assault mechs made tons of money and lights/meds made little. Now that raw damage and kills is not the only thing to reward there is an incentive to do more than drive the biggest mech with the most guns and stack kills. If the overall earnings are to stay the same and performance is rewarded rather than just wins and kills then you should see higher loss payouts for that kind of performance but lower win payout and a slight decrease overall possibly as to balance the economy something had to be taken from the top and given to the bottom.

(I am just guessing those are Heavy/Assault numbers as they seem pretty inline with a solid performance in one.)

[Willothius]

1) Brawling Award should be awarded for dealing damage at close range, and NOT the Solo Kill part of it; just award close range damage dealing for heavies and assaults, it's their job!

2) TAG assist should be given only when TEAMMATES deal damage, not you yourself, or at least not just b pointing all your lasers + a TAG at something.. That's not role warfare, it's just a borken farming-mechanism. (Maybe only your own LRMs should count, as THEN it IS doing something useful?)

3) Scouting award only after a couple seconds of Targetting, so the actual info is gathered for the team.

4) Overall, the Killing Blow still seems favoured too much (it is never ONLY a killing blow, it'll also include a Component Destruction or 2), so those rewards should be divided a bit more among other actions to avoid the Kill Steal attitude..

All in all, some tuning is needed but it looks good!

Edited by Willothius, 22 October 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[costi]

Jetfire, on 22 October 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

The problem is that what was being over rewarded before was straight up damage so Heavy and Assault mechs made tons of money and lights/meds made little. Now that raw damage and kills is not the only thing to reward there is an incentive to do more than drive the biggest mech with the most guns and stack kills. If the overall earnings are to stay the same and performance is rewarded rather than just wins and kills then you should see higher loss payouts for that kind of performance but lower win payout and a slight decrease overall possibly as to balance the economy something had to be taken from the top and given to the bottom.

(I am just guessing those are Heavy/Assault numbers as they seem pretty inline with a solid performance in one.)

So, by your logic, Heavy/Assault players should just leave their Mechs in the hangar and drive Medium/Lights to earn money?

The games has 4 classes of mechs and each should be economically viable. Especially since Heavies and Assaults are the most expensive things, so after grinding endlessly for one, I would expect it to pay off at least decently.

[Pogs]

As a returning player, I'm trying to find reasons to continue playing this game. Its already punishingly hard to get to get ccbills to upgrade your mech. This doesn't don't make it any easier. Work my ass off in a game 'supporting the team'. Paltry rewards. Think I'll be off again.

Edited by Pogs, 22 October 2014 - 03:16 AM.

[jozkhan]

The 2013 CBill nerf was a pretty big deal and done right before the official game launch on the back of the introduction of 12 mans. It amounted to about a 30% nerf across the board.

Doing it again a year later really isnt going to help especially the new and new-ish / casual players who already find the grind to be demoralizing enough to quit playing.

We know you guys are in a hurry to get it into the live game but this is a pretty big deal, especially with your latest mech packs live and for sale right now. You really want to be encouraging both the existing player base and new players especially.