114 replies to this topic

[Gallowglas]

Basically, the only thing the "nerf" did to change my go-to build was that I had to shed a half-ton of ammo, but I gained two jumpjets. I'm okay with that tradeoff.

[Sjorpha]

I think it was a good change, don't really care about what it does to the timber specifically but I think it makes the pods more interesting overall if they have some distinctly hardwired things in them. It also makes sense thematically that JJs are fixed,

[Tastian]

On the one hand I say anyone that cries over the Timberwolf S is just mad cause their crutch got a little shorter. But on the other hand, I still think its very strange that the Innersphere mechs have so much more customization options over the Clan omnis (fixed engine size/type, fixed endo/ferro, and now fixed jump jets).

[Red1769]

I didn't use JJs on the Kit Fox S or the TW S...so the change kinda ruined my builds for them, though I had already stripped them of their stuff before the patch. My TW S was a version of the D or whichever one had four ssrm 6s and two erppcs...I'd really wish that one would come out soon now that I can't build it with the S, I'd even sell the S for it as I won't even waste my time with it. I don't use the JJs enough for them to be worth the tonnage. The Cute Fox I just messed with the omnipods to get rid of the JJs...I would have loved to have kept the mgs, but whatever, I'll probably mix and match and change that thing around to find something interesting to use it for. I haven't even played with my TWs that much...

Edited by Red1769, 22 October 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[Mystere]

Christof Romulus, on 21 October 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

In all fairness, that thread started out with the guy indicating that he was uninstalling mechwarrior online due to the cataclysmic game breaking change of, what? 1 ton? on the game's most powerful mech...

But also in all fairness, many people think it's just not right to change something you had already bought and paid for. So that person might actually be acting according to that principle.

Just because something does not affect you, or you care diddly squat about it, does not mean no one else cares.

[gregsolidus]

I am kinda hesitant to buy stuff given how the meta is constantly swinging in ridiculous directions.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

While I'm sure EVERYONE is well aware of the new rediculous feature with fixed JJ's, to those who own clan mechs not many people seem to care. I read an earlier post that had ALOT of trolling, harrassment, and bullying towards 1 player but unfortunatly his post was removed while I was trying to reply.

So here I am calling out PGI on the second worst mistake EVER in the history of MWO, only decideing to make MWO a strictly PVP only game. Yes PGI isnt perfect, they are human, they need sleep just like we do. They arnt cyborgs or we would be in trouble. But they have more than 1 head, they commuincate and they have a wealth of information at their hands, including an enormous player community to rely on who (sometimes-not always, troll-badmouth, have their monthlys-period, social problems and cant figure what they really want from PGI) can help PGI. Yet here I am, trying to rationalize the brain dead idea to change a couple mechs into something that should never have been changed in the way they were. I dont agree with the patch, I never use JJ's even if I'm on the timberwolf. Not sure what other mech was nerfed with perminent JJ's since I just logged in to check 1 mech to confirm.

Not like I really should care what happens to the game but I care about my account. I paid for it, why shouldn't i if PGI is going to ruin something I was confortable with before. Why fix something that wasnt broke? Point is [redacted] the JJ's NO ONE USES THEM ON THE TIMBER! It totaly ruined the build I used to use on it before, no point in having omni LRMx2 on it since its useless now with the stupid JJ's taking up almost half the space.

Whatzituyah, on 21 October 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

I know its like now that they obsoleted the omnipods unless someone really wanted them

I do kind of agree with both of you here. I actually had to rebuild all three of my Timber Wolf mechs, none of which used JJs and all of which used the S right torso for the extra torso mounted energy slot.

Now what frustrates me is that the change did absolutely nothing to change the power of my Timber Wolf mechs, in fact one of them even ended up a bit better for the change because it forced me to build it a bit different. So basically if the change did absolutely ZERO to change or balance the mech, why make the change? Why make us have to rebuild our mechs?

Also one of the chief complaints about TBRs is the fact they are jump capable on top of everything else, yet I went from not using JJs on any of my TBRs to now using JJs on my S variant (because I am locked to 1 JJ in the CT anyway I go so might as well turn it into a jump capable mech).

So yeah the change served zero purpose except to piss of players. Not a real bright move.

[Fishbulb333]

I don't understand the fuss about the changes to kitfox pods.. Don't get why PGI felt is was needed either, but it's had little to no impact on any of the good builds.. When I first logged in after the patch I had a moment of panic upon seeing all my kitfox's as invalid, but swap a jumpjet from leg to torso here, juggle some ammo there, yup, all good again. Honestly, spend a little time in the mechlab tinkering before coming to the forums to spit the dummy out.

[Greenjulius]

Xarian, on 21 October 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Regarding the Kit Fox:

• Most people use KFX-S torsos for the jets, and not the ballistic hardpoint (only 2 crit slots available)
  
• KFX legs can be switched out to legs without any JJs.
  
• There's no real reason to use the KFX-S torsos if you aren't using JJs. It's a very minor change, since there are *very* few builds using the KFX-S torsos that don't use JJs.
  
• As above, the locked JJs are the price you pay for having a torso with better hardpoints

Also, JJs are very good!

I have zero issues with the changes on the Kit Fox. I just use the left S torso and all my builds are the same as before. It just makes sense.

Plus, a Kitfox without a jump jet is a bad Kit Fox.

Obviously TimberGod pilot tryhards will rage about their beloved god mech having the tiniest of nerfs, even it's it's a fair one. I really, really, really, hate that mech. And I love it from past Mechwarrior games, it's just too powerful in MWO, with no drawbacks.

Edited by Greenjulius, 22 October 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[Xarian]

Connaugh, on 22 October 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Although the post is made "long" ago, I have to asnwer this one:
How many people do u know steering KFX? I guess none, because your statements are nonsense. The KFX-S ST are the only one making it viable for battle when u lost your arms BECAUSE u can/could equip mg/ac2 there. PLUS with 2 slots available, u can put your ammo where the weapon is, which is as it should be: Torso gone, Weapon gone, Ammo gone.

Switching out any part of the mech is no argument. It is about this one variant(!) being disadvantaged.

No reason for the ST? See above. If I want JJs in the KFX, I take/took the legs like with every other jump capable clan mech.

And finally: The locked JJ... The option with the KFX would be: NO hardpoints at all. And please show me any(!) other mech that has to deal with only one slot in a section (except head and ct)

The Kit Fox is the only mech that gives you Jump Jets by swapping out the legs. So how, exactly, are you taking the legs with "every other jump capable clan mech"? All of the Clan mechs had locked Jump Jets except the Timber Wolf and the Kit Fox - and the Timber Wolf has its jets in the Side Torso pods, not the legs.

Without the Jump Jet, your side torso in the Kit Fox has two slots. What exactly are you going to do with 2 slots?
With 2 slots, you can take: AC/2 or Machine Gun
With 1 slot you can take... AC/2 or Machine Gun

So your entire argument revolves around whether or not you can put ammo in your side torsos. That's a very minor change - especially since you can swap out your legs for non-Jump Jet legs and put your ammo there instead. Nobody really legs Kit Foxes anyway, so it's probably safer than having it in your torso.

gregsolidus, on 22 October 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I am kinda hesitant to buy stuff given how the meta is constantly swinging in ridiculous directions.

The only people who are really telling you that it is swinging in ridiculous directions are the people who want to keep using their old meta weapons - so, they say "Gauss isn't meta any more! PPCs aren't meta any more! Go look at SRMs! They're the new meta!"

Just pick a build that you like and stick with it. It doesn't matter how "meta" your weapons are if you are bad with them - and likewise, if you're good with a weapon, the fact that you're good with it trumps everything else.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Tastian, on 22 October 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

On the one hand I say anyone that cries over the Timberwolf S is just mad cause their crutch got a little shorter. But on the other hand, I still think its very strange that the Innersphere mechs have so much more customization options over the Clan omnis (fixed engine size/type, fixed endo/ferro, and now fixed jump jets).

Has nothing to do with a crutch, it is simple because the change did nothing to address balance. All it did was cause people to have to rebuild their mechs.

For example, On my Prime I used to use a Dual ER PPC, Quad C-ER ML set up with no JJs, now I use Dual ER PPC, Dual C-ER ML and a C-ER LL. The mech retains the exact same cooling efficiency, similar DPS with the trade off being slightly less alpha for alot more range. Power level didn't change one bit by making the change however since I can no longer use the S right torso for the extra energy slot, I lost the ability to run my preferred build. This is what makes this change to JJs really just a bad decision on PGIs part. I mean I am all for any changes needed to keep the game balanced and fun but changes just to make changes really annoy me.

Also yeah it is kind of frustrating that in lore Clan mechs are the ones with the most customization but in MWO, they end up being the most restrictive. Now so far this hasn't been a major issue but I recently went on a search for a jump capable 55 ton Clan Omnimech that PGI could add to the game down the road and came up with zero options. At first I wondered why this was the case, but then it dawned on me....in TT ALL Clan mechs can mount JJs so aside from a very few with "fixed" JJs, there is never a reason have stock configs mounting JJs.

These sorts of situations are going to leave some major gaps in the roles Clan mechs can play unless PGI decided to add in "balanced" omnipods that add JJs to currently non jump capable mechs. For example for a 55 ton jump capable mech, an option would be to add two side torsos to the Stormcrow's options that add 2 JJ to each side (for a total of 4) but neither torso would have any weapons hardpoints meaning the Crow would be forced to move all its weapons to its arms and/or head if it wanted to be jump capable. Build options would be 5 Energy or 3 Energy and 1 Ballistic or 3 energy and 1 missile or 1 energy and 2 missile all of which would sacrifice alot of firepower for Jump capability so as not to create an OPed mech.

Anyway they are going to need things like this if they keep restrictions as they are.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 22 October 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Mechteric]

I have no room to pity the best mech in the game. So they fixed something the way it should have been to begin with, you'll deal with it, and move on to brighter better things. I BELIEBER IN YOU!

[Greenjulius]

Xarian, on 22 October 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Nobody really legs Kit Foxes anyway, so it's probably safer than having it in your torso.

I agree with everything you said except this... A lost leg is the primary way I die in a Kitty.

[Mystere]

Viktor Drake, on 22 October 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

So yeah the change served zero purpose except to piss of players. Not a real bright move.

This is because there are players who think JJs are almost just as bad as the "Magic Jesus Box" (i.e. ECM). So any mech suffering from a JJ-related nerf is "A Good Thing".

Also, things look more "logical" if viewed from the perspective of the decades-long anti-Clan Crusade. There is such a thing and it is infesting MWO.

I wish I were joking, but "Haters are always gonna hate".

[Tastian]

Viktor Drake, on 22 October 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Has nothing to do with a crutch, it is simple because the change did nothing to address balance. All it did was cause people to have to rebuild their mechs.

For example, On my Prime I used to use a Dual ER PPC, Quad C-ER ML set up with no JJs, now I use Dual ER PPC, Dual C-ER ML and a C-ER LL. The mech retains the exact same cooling efficiency, similar DPS with the trade off being slightly less alpha for alot more range. Power level didn't change one bit by making the change however since I can no longer use the S right torso for the extra energy slot, I lost the ability to run my preferred build. This is what makes this change to JJs really just a bad decision on PGIs part. I mean I am all for any changes needed to keep the game balanced and fun but changes just to make changes really annoy me.

Also yeah it is kind of frustrating that in lore Clan mechs are the ones with the most customization but in MWO, they end up being the most restrictive. Now so far this hasn't been a major issue but I recently went on a search for a jump capable 55 ton Clan Omnimech that PGI could add to the game down the road and came up with zero options. At first I wondered why this was the case, but then it dawned on me....in TT ALL Clan mechs can mount JJs so aside from a very few with "fixed" JJs, there is never a reason have stock configs mounting JJs.

These sorts of situations are going to leave some major gaps in the roles Clan mechs can play unless PGI decided to add in "balanced" omnipods that add JJs to currently non jump capable mechs. For example for a 55 ton jump capable mech, an option would be to add two side torsos to the Stormcrow's options that add 2 JJ to each side (for a total of 4) but neither torso would have any weapons hardpoints meaning the Crow would be forced to move all its weapons to its arms and/or head if it wanted to be jump capable. Build options would be 5 Energy or 3 Energy and 1 Ballistic or 3 energy and 1 missile or 1 energy and 2 missile all of which would sacrifice alot of firepower for Jump capability so as not to create an OPed mech.

Anyway they are going to need things like this if they keep restrictions as they are.

I think Jump Jets should be left like other hardpoints (including ECM and AMS): removable and optional. Fixed Jump Jets may have slightly nerfed one build of one variant, but it really didn't hurt the Timberwolf dominance as a whole. And in the long run it hurt mechs like the Kit Fox. But it makes sense that since mechs like the Nova and Summoner have fixed Jump Jets, Jump capable pods of other mechs should also. However, I would have much preferred them free up the Jump Jets on the Nova and Summoner.