22 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

The problem I am seeing is that the rewards mostly reward people who stay alive and keep getting bonuses, like capping bases or covering their buddy. Meanwhile the players that get killed early get almost nothing. This game needs new and/or bad players to make numbers, so we need to do something about that.

Possible easy fix is to boost the base rewards for win / loss and reduce the bonus rewards by corresponding amount. Then the underperforming players will still get enough to make it worthwhile and the overachievers will still get lots of reward points.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 22 October 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[Dracol]

While I agree that poor performers could get discouraged due to lower rewards, it is refreshing to see a difference between my good games and bad games. Prior, it was a little unsettling that when I put in a good game the rewards were only slightly above a game where I wasn't paying much attention to.

Edited by Dracol, 22 October 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Xiomburg]

So, your upset that they are rewarding people more that make sound tactical choices in the game? While understand that you can blunder into the enemy team quickly....should you really be rewarded for anything else?

If anything, it will teach you to stay with your lance/team until you are good enough to go out on your own.

[UrsusMorologus]

TB Xiomburg, on 22 October 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

So, your upset that they are rewarding people more that make sound tactical choices in the game? While understand that you can blunder into the enemy team quickly....should you really be rewarded for anything else?

If anything, it will teach you to stay with your lance/team until you are good enough to go out on your own.

So you're illiterate?

[Xiomburg]

UrsusMorologus, on 22 October 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

So you're illiterate?

Do I need to use smaller words for you?

[stjobe]

UrsusMorologus, on 22 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

players that get killed early get almost nothing.

Huh. Imagine that.

Good, I say. They'll never learn if they don't have to.

[Joe Mallad]

UrsusMorologus, on 22 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The problem I am seeing is that the rewards mostly reward people who stay alive and keep getting bonuses, like capping bases or covering their buddy. Meanwhile the players that get killed early get almost nothing. This game needs new and/or bad players to make numbers, so we need to do something about that.

Possible easy fix is to boost the base rewards for win / loss and reduce the bonus rewards by corresponding amount. Then the underperforming players will still get enough to make it worthwhile and the overachievers will still get lots of reward points.

but if you get killed early or do something stupid that gets you killed and does not help out your team, you really should NOT be rewarded for it. Granted, everyone should make "something" but like its already been said... we should not make as much as we have (in past games) for a lose or "lazy win". Its really not fair to the guys that are busting their back sides to win and "play as a team" to get (as an example)... 175k for a win but the losers or lazy players still come out of it with 100k+

We as a whole in this world really have gotten to the point that we reward to much and to often those that lose. Sure no one "wants" to lose, but you better believe that if my son loses a hockey game, (he's 7)... Im not going to put him down for it or call him a loser. But he damn well will learn that losing IS ok and that when he does lose "at anything" he just needs to do better and eventually, he will win. People (not you per say) but people in general are just too QQ anymore and cant handle losing or not having everything be even.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 22 October 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Yoseful Mallad, on 22 October 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

People (not you per say) but people in general are just too QQ anymore and cant handle losing or not having everything be even.

Okay. Right or wrong, do you think the queues will pop faster without them? I mean, do you want to mechwarrior or do you want to make this game a platform for instruction on moral hazards? Because I'd rather mechwarrior.

Also! People who are making lots of bonuses probably the ones who need it the least, while baddies are struggling to get out of the bad chassis pick so they can get up to speed faster. Making the rewards a pyramid will get them into the mainline process faster, while inverted pyramid that disproportionately rewards experience will just make bigger piles of unspent millions.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 22 October 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Burktross]

Even with decent performance, Cbill grinding is ******** than the **** after the other nerf, and I'm talking from premium time. Not everyone can be the star player. Not everyone is a tag-light. Not everyone is an LRM boat. Keep low minimums, but buff whatever rewards there are.

[Joe Mallad]

UrsusMorologus, on 22 October 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Okay. Right or wrong, do you think the queues will pop faster without them?

if i was Psychic, id be rich right now lol. I really cant say if queues will pop faster. Just stressing that way to many people these days think they deserve to get as much as everyone else "even when doing next to nothing".

If PGI or anyone for that matter keeps giving others more for doing less, what is that teaching or giving anyone anything to strive for?

[UrsusMorologus]

Yoseful Mallad, on 22 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

If PGI or anyone for that matter keeps giving others more for doing less, what is that teaching or giving anyone anything to strive for?

It teaches them they can get new gear by dropping.... Punishing them for being underperformer just translates into, "holy cats I gotta grind for 20 days to get the next mech"

[Jetfire]

I have a hard time figuring out why rewarding poor play makes bad players likely to stick around?

I completely see that is looks daunting but that is the whole reason for the first 25 matches getting a fixed boost.

Perfect practice makes perfect, just making the game a mindless grind without real rewards for better play is also harming new players by giving the message there is a wall in front of you and no matter what you do you can either pay money or sit through the grind. Rewarding performance says do x, y or z more and your grind will decrease and in turn makes your play better and makes teams work better together. Additionally your team mates have an incentive to tell you to stick together and the game rewards it too.

It is actually more new player friendly now. It would be even better though if they added more training missions to teach you about rewards though, and ghost heat if that is going to stick around. Not arguing overall rewards didn't need any buff as they are hotfixing it already, but this system is inherently better for new players.

Edited by Jetfire, 22 October 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Jetfire, on 22 October 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I have a hard time figuring out why rewarding poor play makes bad players likely to stick around?

Just a point here, I'm proposing to buff the rewards for all players, not bad players in particular. Good players will still get more from bonuses, while bad players will be encouraged to keep dropping rather than get demoralized by low payouts. I think that happens because I feel it myself sometimes--right now I'm trying to master the Ravens and grinding through the stock 4x, and keep getting killed very fast, and yes its demoralizing to come out of a match with 30k cbills and 500xp over and over. Now, I'm doing it with a goal in mind, I know the cost, but new players dont know and think damn this sucks.

[Jetfire]

UrsusMorologus, on 22 October 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Just a point here, I'm proposing to buff the rewards for all players, not bad players in particular. Good players will still get more from bonuses, while bad players will be encouraged to keep dropping rather than get demoralized by low payouts. I think that happens because I feel it myself sometimes--right now I'm trying to master the Ravens and grinding through the stock 4x, and keep getting killed very fast, and yes its demoralizing to come out of a match with 30k cbills and 500xp over and over. Now, I'm doing it with a goal in mind, I know the cost, but new players dont know and think damn this sucks.

I am all for just flat out buffing earnings with tons of 3 million cbill modules to buy, hard to say if PGI can accept it though.

I get why the low payout isn't fun, but I do not see how a little higher payout actually makes bad players any less likely to get tired of playing poorly over and over again without improving. If slot machines pay out a nickel a pull or a dime a pull I am still going to get bored fast and that is what playing this game poorly is basically, just pulling a lever and seeing what comes out. If you begin to play it like a game of skill where your actions matter and you practice improving your actions... then payout gets higher and you feel accomplishment and that feels good. This is what could cause players to stick around.

[Xiomburg]

The Tale of the Three Little Urbies



The end

Edited by TB Xiomburg, 22 October 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Jetfire, on 22 October 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

I am all for just flat out buffing earnings with tons of 3 million cbill modules to buy, hard to say if PGI can accept it though.

I get why the low payout isn't fun, but I do not see how a little higher payout actually makes bad players any less likely to get tired of playing poorly over and over again without improving. If slot machines pay out a nickel a pull or a dime a pull I am still going to get bored fast and that is what playing this game poorly is basically, just pulling a lever and seeing what comes out. If you begin to play it like a game of skill where your actions matter and you practice improving your actions... then payout gets higher and you feel accomplishment and that feels good. This is what could cause players to stick around.

Well that is one way to see it I will grant you that, but if the pay outs are and now so good, why have many stuck with it till now and gotten much better? We are not playing slots here, and I am sure many might just feel the same as I do when saying, " the house always wins." Given the updates to this point, it looks like the core of the problem will not be addressed once again, and many resource's will be wasted on just trying to cover the real problem here. New players are not gonna stay if this doesn't change, and even long time players are not happy with the earnings in this grind we have.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 22 October 2014 - 06:53 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Really the spread is just far too wide. I go from 50k on the RVN-4X to 300k on the RVN-3L because the ECM on the 3L lets me cap and NARC reliably. It shouldnt be that wide. Newbies struggling with a mech get massively demoralized while pros build grinders for the easy money, solves nothing, breaks everything.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 22 October 2014 - 07:12 PM.

[Divine Retribution]

Dying first doesn't automatically make someone a bad player and I'm a little surprised some of the veterans posting in here don't realize that. Especially in group play, the players at the front when two murderballs collide are likely to die quickly. If a player leads the charge and manages to soak 400+ damage before dropping while the rest of the team cuts down 3 enemy mechs, the piloted flak jacket doesn't get a whole lot even though it helped the team win. The last thing we need is more encouragement to not take any damage, we have enough of those players already (particularly in the solo queue).

I'm a little biased as I am always willing to lead the push so long as other players are willing to commit to backing me up. Death means nothing to me if it helps the team. In the group queue teammates will get in front of you before death to minimize the loss of firepower on the team (and allowing me to keep earning rewards), but the first one in is still the most likely to die. I rarely see other players willing to take fire for friendlies and fully commit to a push in the solo queue, unless it is a steamroll where suddenly everyone is brave enough to be in the front once it is clearly a steamroll.

The real problem is how do you reward someone willing to take damage for the greater good of the team (leading a push, taking fire for friendlies to preserve team firepower) at the same level as the players who follow behind, firing from relative safety, without rewarding Rambo jumping into the enemy team alone and dying pointlessly?

[The Boz]

Divine Retribution, on 22 October 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

Dying first doesn't automatically make someone a bad player and I'm a little surprised some of the veterans posting in here don't realize that.

They realize, but they're too busy stroking their egos at this point.

[NextGame]

the new bonuses are fine. im about the same on cbills and seem to be up on xp, mostly by not hiding behind rocks.