350 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

DocBach, on 28 October 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

next time, when we all work so hard to gather the telemetry of the quirk changes for them, they should do an event like the one where they gave out a buttload of cbills.

I don't have enough time over the weekend to play for those perfect games required to win the leaderboard, but I do have enough time to get a couple of those "hey, that was OK games" good enough for the c-bill prizes, you know, for all my hard work testing the quirks and stuff.

its not about the top winning in the leaderbord, they are anyways luck based, but it is about the acverage the calsses do, you see some serious differences between them in how their score turns out. Compare Vindicator and Stormcrow, it clearly gives you a hint of what and to how degree somethign is wrong (imbalanced)

[C E Dwyer]

One of either two things has been demonstrated by this chasis tourney.


Either LRM boats are the way to go, you needed over 2k points to chart in both the Stalker Timberwolf and the Maddog, which might suggest that the pointscore system is weak.

Or the Victor is a much over rated mech, as its top 15 are very close to the quickdraws top 15 scores, which is a mech most people avoid like the plague

[DocBach]

Lily from animove, on 28 October 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

its not about the top winning in the leaderbord, they are anyways luck based, but it is about the acverage the calsses do, you see some serious differences between them in how their score turns out. Compare Vindicator and Stormcrow, it clearly gives you a hint of what and to how degree somethign is wrong (imbalanced)

Yep, the top and bottom are going to be outliers on a curve. The overall average of the droppers are going to provide much better metrics for them to use when deciding balance -- still, I want the c-bill handout like they did the other weekend. I had to go do stuff my wife wanted me to do so I didn't get to play that weekend.

[Verkhne]

It might be interesting to see the bell curve shape of the various chassis. I wonder if a carry mech might be skewed to the right, while a bad mech might be skewed left? (score versus frequency)

[BerserX]

I placed 9th in the Victor Leaderboard, but I do not see my MC yet. Is there an injection date, or is the system slow at dispersing it?

Just curious. Ground really hard for it.

[Bront]

Tigris, on 26 October 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't the math off? With the way it is now you'll end up with a negative score. Even if they're just flipping the sign to get your score, then your kills, assists, and wins count against you.

(Kills*20)+(Assists*10)+((Damage done - Team Damage done)/15)+(Wins*20)

If they made it Team Damage - Damage/15, then you still get less points for doing more damage. The best way would be:

(Kills*20)+(Assists*10)+((Team Damage/Damage)*200)+(Wins*20)

Maybe you guys have already caught this.

Team damage done = damage you did to friendlies, and since friendly damage is included in your total damage, it's not likely to be less than zero unless you managed to do more damage to your team than you did overall.

[NotXanderpeach]

What Carl said+ my suggestion about scoring system

(most damage kill x 10)+(assist x 10)+(kill x 10)+((damage - team damage)/15)

This system wil elliminate kill-stealing. And yeah, this event is way too long. I spent a whole weekend on this challenge, and finished #24 in TBR ladder. Last 26 hours of this event I played smth near 150 matches, and there was ONLY!!!2!!! ranked matches. It happend because I'm doing the main work, stripping enemy 'mech, tanking, trading my armor to open enemy's CT, and then light mech or LRM boat JUST STEALING MY WORK. Current system is just does not work, and it FORCES PILOTS TO USE LRM BOATS, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET A KILL SHOT WITHOUT EXPOSING YOURSELF.



#PGIPLZFIXDISSHTNXTTIME

Also narc and tag should not be rewarded. Because in this case we will face atlases with NARC and TAG

Edited by Xanderpeach, 28 October 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Bront]

Xanderpeach, on 28 October 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

What Carl said+ my suggestion about scoring system

(most damage kill x 10)+(assist x 10)+(kill x 10)+((damage - team damage)/15)

This system wil elliminate kill-stealing. And yeah, this event is way too long. I spent a whole weekend on this challenge, and finished #24 in TBR ladder. Last 26 hours of this event I played smth near 150 matches, and there was ONLY!!!2!!! ranked matches. It happend because I'm doing the main work, stripping enemy 'mech, tanking, trading my armor to open enemy's CT, and then light mech or LRM boat JUST STEALING MY WORK. Current system is just does not work, and it FORCES PILOTS TO USE LRM BOATS, BECAUSE YOU CAN GET A KILL SHOT WITHOUT EXPOSING YOURSELF.



#PGIPLZFIXDISSHTNXTTIME

I like the formula other than it penalizes direct kill builds and lights vs high damage builds, but I disagree with it being too long. It gives players a chance to play that otherwise might not have had one. I had no time to play on Sunday, but had time on monday, and was glad to do so, even if I only got 27th in 'Phrats.

LRMs are annoying for kill steals though. As in, they don't work as well as many players seem to think they do. WIth multiple LRMers, and missile spread being a bit of a pot luck affair, it's not consistent enough to rely on.

Edited by Bront, 28 October 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Project_Mercy]

As long as there's such an extended period to farm, the whole system is sort of wack. It would be better if it worked like "Your best score in the next 30 games is your match" and if you didn't like the option, you could reset it and start another 30 matches. As it is, it's just function of who was in what mech during those outlier games where MM gives you some massive imbalance on both sides (you being great, your team being terrible, and the enemy team being terrible).

The first few hours of the challenge are the only really useful ones for comparison as regards chassis balance, because you it has the same issues with outliers.

I also think ELO should be eliminated for people who OPT in, during that tourney. It's not like MM makes a system where everyone in the game is of equitable ability. It just makes two teams it thinks are equitable. So if you're just a seal the MM threw in for clubbing, it mostly just screwed you.

Also, as mentioned a billion times previously, the scoring system is irrational. It doesn't represent mechwarrior, and it's not conducive to an enjoyable experience. Something more in the vein of the current XP/CB rewards system seems better, especially in regards to ratio of damage done for a mech, to reward those who actually did the work on killing mechs and not those who spend the match either attempting to tag every mech for the assist and/or wait around trying to kill steal.

[-Wulf-]

I guess I must voice my observations, Top 10 finisher using the only thing I have that works. Im a KINTARO 18 5x5 driver.

Ok well for starters letts go into missile hate. Never in all my 25 + years of Battletech/Mechwarrior have I seen so many whining about missle boats. If LRM's wernt ment to be in game then what would be the use for the Catapult, Treb, Kintaro, Timberwolf, Stalker, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, and a crap ton of other cannon mechs. These few examples of the CLASSIC missile boat chassis in game have a purpose. Having said that lotts of folks say that missile boating doesnt take skill,,, POPPYCOCK!!!!! Plain and simple.

If you dont help a missile boat get locks they gotta do it themselves, and some pilots like myself have mastered the DUMB FIRE technique and when we get kills this way were stealing them. Nevermind the fact that you have to aim even more carefully to make dumbfire work. So a good boat pilot knows how to kill without locks. OMG we cant stand for that, its blasphemy for missile boaters to shoot without lock it makes them EQUAL...

So either help as a team and win or not help and roll the dice leave the win up to chance. Most choose the dice cause its popular. This new trend bugs me the most, WTF people if you dont support each other then your ALL BONED. You have to win as a team. I couldnt get this through to people, especially the fact of YOU DONT ADVANCE IF YOU DONT WIN DUMB@$$.

It really seems like people would rather loose matches than to actually help and support one another
Hell even ONE of the Elite STREAMERS on TWITCH was "Shielding enemy mechs from no skill, Kill stealing lurmers" Yes Odwalla I just called you out on that one.
(Link to his post and post... http://mwomercs.com/...rd-tournaments/
LRMs and Why They Suck

[color=#959595]I don't think I have ever hated LRMs more than I do after this tournament. The frustration I get from seeing LRMs in a match is two fold.[/color]

[color=#959595]1. [/color]When the enemy team has a lot of LRMs[color=#959595] that usually means teammates will become very passive. A few will get bored and charge into their death until the enemy team has a substantial lead in kills and proceed to roll the rest of my team. This is especially frustrating when a hand full of maps favor ranged and LRM builds so much that if you get narced or stuck under a UAV, you're literally dead within seconds without the ability to even return fire on the targets that are killing you. It's very reminiscent of stun-lock rogues in vanilla World of Warcraft.[/color]

[color=#959595]2. [/color]When my team has a lot of LRMs[color=#959595] that means I'm going to lose kills to mechs that are leaching off my targets. It's usually assault LRM boats who sit in the back and just fire all their missiles at targets that I am tanking and trying to open up. The amount of kills that I've had stolen to friendly LRMs was maddening. I actually stopped targeting mechs if my team was LRM heavy and have even shielded legged enemy mechs from my friendly LRMs to make sure I could secure the kill.[/color]


Yes that post was from the last leaderboard challenge. But this is the message sent by ELITIST. Basically if people like odwalla get thier way the game would no longer be mechwarrior but SOLARIS VII with everyone using a limited number of chassis. All running the same direct fire loadout meta builds, with no indirect fire and most of all no build diversity. Get's pretty boring if you ask me turns the game into nothing but a turret slugging match PPC GAUSS UAC2/5/10/20 and maybe if someone is allowed they might get a SRM 6 or streaks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fact is both sides of the ARGUMENT have valid points and what one side is claiming is actually being done on both sides, both sides steal each others kills, now direct fire has taken another role of playing linebacker to aid enemy's destruction of missle boats (IE shielding enemies for personal kills, legging missle boats so they cant get into position, LBXing friendly missile boats backs to make them weak and made of glass to enemy fire. Or simply blocking a missile boats retreat lines so they are forced to just take a beating be eliminated and therefore more possibility for said linebackers to make kills and damage score.)

yes all these Incidents happend in this weekends challenge, so what do you direct fire boys have to say for yourselves. I mean you guys gripe about missles stealing your kills but then again, many have admitted to waiting for the missile boats to take the target to below 30%, then poke tart and steal the missile boats kill that they rightfully worked for, again ITS A TWO WAY STREET that is against popular opinion to point out. Its easier to go with the popular opinion and claim no skill Missile boaters and demand another nerf or a rework of missiles.

Indirect fire and direct fire have there merits, and downfalls. Both are ment to work together in unison, however this is just a game and not real combat. If it were real combat then it wouldnt matter who got the kill. Do you see actual combat soldiers bitching at each other over who pinned the enemy down and who actually killed them, HELL NO you dont do you!!! All you see is the relief that the enemy is dead.

Fact is in all canon, when the missle boats were called in it was to either soften targets, or to provide covering fire. When the boats were called in they were to do their job and many a frontline battle weary mechs were saved from total destruction just because they had freinds who could go all AT&T and reach out and touch someone.

The scoring system sucks but PGI cant please everyone. In past challenges support roles were favored because assist were worth more than kills, Well people griped and demanded that missile boat had unfair advantage. Then when kills out score assists they gripe again cause missile boats steal their kills. Popular opinion appears to be leaning twards doing away with missile boating all together since in almost every challenge its popular to gripe about them.

Its all about equality and well there can be none when too many gripe. Fact is people wont stop whining until pgi makes every shot hit and every hit kill.

Hope this makes people look at things diffrently

Edited by Falkwulf, 28 October 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Macksheen]

Cathy, on 28 October 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

One of either two things has been demonstrated by this chasis tourney.


Either LRM boats are the way to go, you needed over 2k points to chart in both the Stalker Timberwolf and the Maddog, which might suggest that the pointscore system is weak.

Or the Victor is a much over rated mech, as its top 15 are very close to the quickdraws top 15 scores, which is a mech most people avoid like the plague

I ran Mad Dog exclusively w/ SRMs or Streaks. I'll say it again though, I wonder if I'd put one LRM5 on there for a few extra assists would it have paid off. That was my weakness, yet I wasn't going to run LRMs. I had big games, big damage ... but not tons of assists in most matches.

I do wonder of the Mad Dog folks above me, how many of them ran LRMs?

[Scout Derek]

wished this score counted, reason why it didn't was because it was a group drop ;(
but, it was good cause' I got the Ace of Spades achievement!


quick note: scored 5th in Summoner category, oh well....

Edited by Scout Derek, 28 October 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Bilbo]

Scout Derek, on 28 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

wished this score counted, reason why it didn't was because it was a group drop ;(
but, it was good cause' I got the Ace of Spades achievement!


quick note: scored 5th in Summoner category, oh well....

Sweet. I doubt I'll ever get that one.

[Bezerkah]

To Falkwulf:

I have to say this was a great post, not only do you make some great points but you point out something that was frustrating to me is the comments that LRM takes no skill or can easily kill steal someone else. Radar Dep and cover kept LRMs off me as well as ECM.

I was driving a Kintaro for most of the challenge and I must say I had so many of my kills stolen where I was working a target down and got the cbill bonus message for most damage so I think there is something to be looked into regarding how the person that did the most damage to target is rewarded. For people that use LRM it can be easier to get a hit on someone as you have advantage of range, however I saw a lot of people spamming LRM into buildings or walls not realizing their reticle will light up red to confirm hits. It was fun when I dropped on a light ECM mech and ran behind enemy lines causing all sorts of chaos with spotting, arty strikes and killing the lone LRM boat that was pretty much helpless with me on them. Not to mention how my team blotted out the sun with LRMS when I popped a UAV up....

I tried very hard to encourage my teammates to stick together, focus fire targets, hold locks for LRM, and make sure to support the assaults and other slower mechs. This is a game about teamwork and I have a ton of respect for brawlers and in fact that is my favorite way to play however people have different tastes and as long as your team is working together you should have fun and resect their roles.

I don't have a lot of time to post but your post touched on a lot of good points. Thanks!

Edited by Bezerkah, 28 October 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[chipps101]

ok i am hearing a lot of people saying that match score would be a better way to rank people in these tournaments.

i kept a spreadsheet of my wins including match score and my 10 best games would have given me a total match score of 1223

i ranked 4th in the adders with a tournament score of 1999

did anyone else keep track of their match scores during this tournament and wish to compare their data as to how their match score is compared to their tournament score ?

Edited by chipps101, 28 October 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[DarthPeanut]

I probably have screen caps of 95% of the matches I had. I could probably throw together a pretty good idea of what I did for a match score based number.

[chipps101]

that would be great Darth

as you were in an assault and i was in a light we should both be getting different bonuses for different things towards our match score.

i'm sure if enough people can post some data then anyone who wants to try and analyse the difference between the match and tournament scores and how they affect each other can work their magic

Edited by chipps101, 28 October 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[DarthPeanut]

Oh it is CHIPPS! Ha, just looked at the name.

Yea I will put together tonight the best 10 I have... did you just do straight match scores on winning games added?

[chipps101]

i only kept a note of my winning scores as they were the only ones counting for this tournament

yes the 1223 is just the ten best win match scores added together.

Edited by chipps101, 28 October 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Did anybody receive the reward already?