350 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

All we can hope is that when the Devs come back after the weekend and read yet another vitriol and resentment-filled thread of feedback on yet another tourney that was done with the same Win Condition issue that's been complained about before...

...They'll take pity, and do something about it. Maybe.

Seriously. Please? This was a miserable weekend for a lot of people. Yes, we didn't have to opt-in, yes, you don't need to give us chances at prizes for data-collection on your end. But when we're playing a computer game, which is generally something that most people do for relaxation or fun, and game play is driven down to a medieval level of ridiculously selfish play, purely by the way the scoring algorithm is set up...

All it really would take is to remove the Win Condition from the algorithm, and keep it as a score modifier. So we get more points for wins, that makes sense...rather than only getting points for wins in a tournament that requires you to rely on teammates that you do not have an efficient method for communicating with.

Or, just make a new event for the weekends you would have run one of these tourneys- Give us a 20-sided die, allow us to roll it for some arbitrary combination of numbers that will determine a winner, and call it good. Because that's all this was, an excessive amount of grinding, under worse-than-usual FF, blocking, and overall selfish play, combined with complete luck of the draw.

Edited by Kodyn, 27 October 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[Thorsteine]

Just got my first win of the weekend at 62/82 wins to losses. Damn that was the longest lose streak I've ever had.

[Macksheen]

I would like to see it use the new system; in fact, I'd love to see them change up the challenges so each one stressed different aspects - but ultimately wins needs to be in there to reduce griefing and ensure people focus on team wins. Possibly, only allow players to "opt in" for one of maybe four "events" running simultaneously, each that stresses a different role?

[L A V A]

Well... if the team win wasn't included in the math, folks would really go crazy and there would be so much Friendly Fire and Team Kills it would make your head spin.

I personally like the challenge and the awards per mech type. Hope they do it again.

Lots of great players out there this weekend, making it really tough to do well and win at the same time.

[Butane9000]

I just don't understand why they decided to only count wins and then give a win bonus. That extra 20 points would have been better as a survival bonus or something.

[Kodyn]

Macksheen, on 27 October 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

I would like to see it use the new system; in fact, I'd love to see them change up the challenges so each one stressed different aspects - but ultimately wins needs to be in there to reduce griefing and ensure people focus on team wins. Possibly, only allow players to "opt in" for one of maybe four "events" running simultaneously, each that stresses a different role?

You must be very confused, because in no way whatsoever does this mechanic stress team play. If you're the one guy that saw good team play this weekend, then...wow. More power to ya.

How would removing the win condition do anything to negatively effect team play, when with it, everyone is literally playing like they're the only mech that matters?

They even have Team Damage as a modifier to lower your score, and yet the FF incidents have gone UP for the weekend....

So please, please explain to me how this algorithm is actually encouraging team play?

All taking it out will do is reduce the frustration for those of us competing, and not trying to abuse the algorithm in any way.

And also, by a Devs' own admission in another thread, they do not even like the Victory Condition, because it can often lead to abusing the system, ie, get bunch of points early in match, die, farm next match, hope your team wins. Yes that splits you up on mech chassis, but if they're fine with running in multiple leader boards, and have multiple mechs, this scoring algorithm is very easy to break and abuse.

So yeah, unless someone can prove otherwise, I still think it's a very, very poor way to run these types of events.

[Lily from animove]

fx8320, on 27 October 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

6x kill = 120
let's assume 4 assist in a game like this usually = 40
800 damage = 53
Win would be 20

It's more likely a 233 match, I can see him being angry.

he said it sucks to lose, therefore he would not have gotten those 20 for a win and he didn't stated about assists.

[Gorgo7]

Can the Dev's please post the number of participants per Chassis please?
I was happy with my performance this weekend and am curious how many actually signed up for the Awesome!
Cheers!

[Catra Lanis]

Gorgo7, on 27 October 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

Can the Dev's please post the number of participants per Chassis please?
I was happy with my performance this weekend and am curious how many actually signed up for the Awesome!
Cheers!

Second this. If my calculations are correct I've done games that should have put me in 15-20 spot but they were all losses

[Macksheen]

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was a great encourager of team play ... But the win in there is the ONLY team aspect in the formula right now. Taking it out would leave no team based incentive. And yeah, I have had some stinkers the weekend but not as many as some.

I'm on my phone so maybe not typing enough to give a clear idea and confusing you.

[Macksheen]

Kodyn, on 27 October 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

So yeah, unless someone can prove otherwise, I still think it's a very, very poor way to run these types of events.

Not disagreeing, again just pointing out that victory is the only "team" thing in the current formula - and I'm not being crazy and saying it's good - so until someone thinks of something better it's what we have.

[Kodyn]

No Mack, i get what you're saying, and yes, it likely would be better if they added some other incentives to make up for losing the win condition.

I wasn't saying they shouldn't at least try to encourage teamwork, nor change the algorithm beyond just removing the victory part, just that the victory part is a severe bottleneck right now, and I think the biggest issue.

I just know that I'm on of many that have been frustrated by this on more than one event. and having seen the Devs admit that it even encourages poor play, yet use it again just makes absolutely no sense to me.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a new result...

[Macksheen]

I'm thinking about writing up a post about what I had to do to get so high on the leaderboard - there are some things that I didn't change about my builds or how I play, but there are some where frankly to push up on some of these and get these monstrous games, you kinda have to think about. It's a pain, and doesn't "feel" right.

You need the wins, but you need other stuff too. The build I'm running today was different than I started with and not something I'd ever drop in a group match with ... and maybe that bugs me a bit too.

BTW, on PC now - type better ;-)

Edited by Macksheen, 27 October 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[Kodyn]

I thought about actually tailoring a build for it, but decided against it. I tend to play rather team-oriented as opposed to solo anyway, due to the nature of my unit/company, and the direct-fire support mechs I tend to roll, so that wasn't the issue, and damage wasn't an issue for me even on losses.

The biggest thing I could have maybe done was instead of running a mech I actually enjoy, I could have whipped out a Lurmisher of some sort, and just abused easy mode like so many did with the KTOs and LRM Crows.

But really, in the end, staying in the top 10 wasn't hard, and I may even get motivated and rise back up into it today, it's just a matter of grind. I'm not even some amazing player, but I know I can keep up in CTFs with anyone on the board with me, short of maybe the top 4-5, it's just a matter of grinding all day to net those few wins out of all the losses.

When it stops becoming fun, I have to take a step back and weigh the rewards vs. how much grind it will be. The way people play in these events, it's rarely fun.(Something perhaps for me to remember next time, if they don't change the rules, don't opt-in)

I would be interested to read what you did still though Macksheen.

[Macksheen]

I didn't go LRMs - SRM or Streak brawler (swapping back and forth depending on how my brain felt), but little things like ... in a group drop, combat is faster and over quicker. In the solo drop, matches run longer - so I mortgaged my armor and any spare heat sinks for ammo. I even stripped my backup medium lasers off ... because a group drop running SRM36 I don't need more than 5 or 6 tons of ammo - but that runs out in a PUG. In many ways I'm still a facehugging brawler, the mech equivalent of a monkey with a big stick - but I threw "staying alive" out the window as unimportant.

There's also the depression factor. Nothing says "kick in the gut" more than looking at a 4 kill, 3 assist and 1000 damage match and saying "damn, that probably wasn't good enough".

Edited by Macksheen, 27 October 2014 - 05:46 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Given up. I've done some good games this weekend (comparing against myself only). 3-4 kills and 600+ damage with Yen Lo and every single one of these games we have lost. I don't get it. Sheer probability say that we should have won close to half at least. Those were honest kills so it took a lot of pressure of the team.

[bane]

Have to learn to carry harder.

[Scout Derek]

Now I'm ranked 4th in the Summoner catagory too bad I can't play anymore because of work...

[BARBAR0SSA]

Scout Derek, on 27 October 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Now I'm ranked 4th in the Summoner catagory too bad I can't play anymore because of work...

Depending on if I do TW or Summoner after work today and hopefully it's not the exact same 23 people over and over.
You might be going lower mwahahah

[Scout Derek]

shad0w4life, on 27 October 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Depending on if I do TW or Summoner after work today and hopefully it's not the exact same 23 people over and over.
You might be going lower mwahahah

Well, possibly, because it's very hard to get a good score AND win at the same time, you also have to be at the right place at the right time.