122 replies to this topic

[Golden Vulf]

Hellbringers will fix everything.

12 Mechs, 12 Ecms.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 24 October 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[Pjwned]

Every time I see one of these topics I have to wonder how often the people complaining are piloting big, slow mechs that don't have any AMS equipped, particularly when there's a surge of popularity with LRMs at any point.

Personally I tend to pilot mechs that can simply get out of the way (or are designed to be long range fire themselves) so I don't have too many problems with LRMs (and when I do it's pretty much always my fault entirely) but I see people complaining about this all the time and yet I never hear about AMS despite how easy it is to spend 1.5 tons and prevent potentially a lot of damage from LRMs, particularly if/when people with AMS group up.

[Truesight]

If you can't beat em.... JOIN EM!

[Kjudoon]

Golden Vulf, on 24 October 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hellbringers will fix everything.

12 Mechs, 12 Ecms.

The Loki is probably the first Clan mech I will buy... not for money of course. ECM and Lurms. I'm filling all my Crutch hardpoints.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 October 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Lykaon]

Jazz Hands, on 24 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

For months I have played with an open mind trying not to get irritated over stupid stuff...which every game has. This LRM non-sense is out of f*cking control though and I can barely stand to play anymore. It's part of the game and I know it will never change...so why complain I suppose.

I just can't help seeing all this boats every game and picturing them coloring in their Dora the explorer coloring books before the match starts. I just can't see how it's fun and/or entertaining on any level with such monotonous game play as an LRM boat.

I know nobody cares, just venting on this topic...

If you play an LRM boat as a slightly mobile missile launching instalation and spam LRMs at every target your team briefly locks all the while being 700+m from any enemy and never ever actually laying eyes on the enemy then it is boring and also not a proper way of being good at missile support.

I see pilots load up with nearly 2k LRMs in their ammo bins and watch then spam 8-10 tons of ammo away and rack up sub 500 damage counts.This mean they are below 40% in accuracy on a weapon system that is self guided after lock.

That is patheticly ineffective for the amount of time spent dishing ammo into terrain.

Proper LRM support should be mobile sitting off the front lines but not burried under a rock at near max LRM range.Keep pace with the battle and lend tactical and strategic artillery support to the team by picking important and vulnerable targets (not just whatever is in range and curently targeted)


As for if/when any changes will be made to adjust LRM mechanics and performance?

First step would be to tune and adjust ECM so it is not constantly obfuscating the true performance of LRMs.The problem with having an ECM "off switch" roving around is LRMs do not perform consistantly enough to truely understand how to make adjustments and balance choices.

[Kjudoon]

LRM boats should never try to be inside ML range of the enemy, and between 180-500m of their team so they can assist by turning missiles on any enemy mech that gets among them. They also should keep one eye on their minimap at all times and watching for the flanking maneouvers on your team, and shift constantly around your team keeping your brawlers and flankers between you and the enemy and getting angles to pressure the enemy out of fortified positions.

You're not a brawler, do not be among them, be behind them supporting them and more judicious with firing. 2k missiles for a dedicated LRMboat is not bad if you have over 35 tubes. The formula is 1 ton for every 5 tubes MINIMUM. Overload is 2 tons per 5 tubes. So 40 tubes needs 8 to 16 tons (with the optimum being between 10-12) That will give you a good war load.

If you're not breaking 500 dmg and shooting off all those missiles, you gotta work big time on your technique, watch for AMS, take it off chain fire and/or know ranges and where cover is so you don't waste your shots.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 October 2014 - 11:48 PM.

[LowSubmarino]

Lrms are only dangerous if you dont know how to avoid them.

Against pug teams that just run over open field with no ecm, engaging the whole team with 1 mech or a lance, or similar scenarios it is devastating.

Against ppl that know the map and stay in cover they are virtually useless. And lrmboats fire volley after volley into walls or targets that play with missile lock. Take any fast heavy or lighter mechs and you will be fast enough to run from cover to cover.

And if you team dies one after another then you would die anyway no matter if its 100 small lasers or 100000 lrms.

Lrms are actually a reminder that you cannot just run around blindly without a brain. If you do you will get annihilated in seconds. If have seen really skilled lances (or almost entire teams) play without any lrms. And they were really good. If you have too much lrms boated against such a team it is a death sentence. A good team with line of sight weapons will destroy a lrm heavy team.

If Im in a sniper war with an lrm boat I actually smile. I can land alpha after alpha after alpha and not even one missile hits me. And then, a short while later, the missile platform is dead.

[parman01]

The problem with LRMs is that they require exactly ZERO skill to use and win. In competitive online game there is quite common rule that individual with greater skill wins. LRMs terribly break this rule.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Pack Radar deprevation...its dam near Psuedo ECM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

parman01, on 25 October 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

The problem with LRMs is that they require exactly ZERO skill to use and win. In competitive online game there is quite common rule that individual with greater skill wins. LRMs terribly break this rule.

LRM BOATS require zero skill. stop getting them confused with LRM support. Lrm boats just sit in the back shooting at red blocks. LRM support mechs follow the main group and drop the pain on mechs running in the brawl, and support the team with constant damage on the mechs being enguaged. They tag thier own stuff if possible, they try to get LOS for thier artemis. they actually have decent backup weapons and good survivability built into thier LRM mechs so they can even help the team if they are out of lrms or get min-ranged. Most importantly they actually USE CHASSIS THAT ARE GOOD AT LRM BOATING. You wont see seasoned fire support guys packing 3 lrm 20s (with tag and a SINGLE medium laser...LEL) in DDC's and wasting a good mech...LRM boats dont do any of this.

[Kjudoon]

parman01, on 25 October 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

The problem with LRMs is that they require exactly ZERO skill to use and win. In competitive online game there is quite common rule that individual with greater skill wins. LRMs terribly break this rule.

Oh?

I await your video or screen caps proving it takes no skill to run an LRMboat. You should be able to beat my better games of 5 kills 7 assists and 1200 damage which I have a handful of in an Orion VA with 40lrms, tag and a single medium laser. After all... it takes no skill to use them. Expect your technique to be graded.

As for LRMs breaking the competition aspect, you never or nearly never see them on winning teams. In the last tournament that you can watch the videos, there was 1 match that went LRM heavy. Most teams will not use them because they don't have precision, speed or high alpha qualities they need.

[Kjudoon]

xXBagheeraXx, on 25 October 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

LRM BOATS require zero skill. stop getting them confused with LRM support. Lrm boats just sit in the back shooting at red blocks. LRM support mechs follow the main group and drop the pain on mechs running in the brawl, and support the team with constant damage on the mechs being enguaged. They tag thier own stuff if possible, they try to get LOS for thier artemis. they actually have decent backup weapons and good survivability built into thier LRM mechs so they can even help the team if they are out of lrms or get min-ranged. Most importantly they actually USE CHASSIS THAT ARE GOOD AT LRM BOATING. You wont see seasoned fire support guys packing 3 lrm 20s (with tag and a SINGLE medium laser...LEL) in DDC's and wasting a good mech...LRM boats dont do any of this.

I kinda agree with some of this.

No skill? Nope. Otherwise everyone would be pulling down 8 kill games every game. The evidence proves this false

Know the difference between LRMsupport and LRMishing. LRM support is focusing hard on LRMs and having light backup weaponry, trusting armor and speed to get you out of trouble and no engaging an enemy directly. "Never give a sucker an even break" is the best way to put this.

LRMishing is when your LRMs are a solid secondary weapon or equal to your energy weapons, you get lock, use tag, move fast and can fend off some damaged or lighter attacks. Often this is the style of Medium LRM mechs or some very particular heavy/assault chassis.

Know the capabilities of your chassis. Yes. Hands down yes.

Know how to watch your team and battle flow through the minimap and your visuals.

These skills are not always easy to do and many people don't have them though they claim no skill is needed. In one respect, its true. It takes no skill to be a BAD LRM pilot. But there is skill needed to be good in the craft of your role.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jazz Hands, on 24 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

For months I have played with an open mind trying not to get irritated over stupid stuff...which every game has. This LRM non-sense is out of [redacted] control though and I can barely stand to play anymore. It's part of the game and I know it will never change...so why complain I suppose.

I just can't help seeing all this boats every game and picturing them coloring in their Dora the explorer coloring books before the match starts. I just can't see how it's fun and/or entertaining on any level with such monotonous game play as an LRM boat.

I know nobody cares, just venting on this topic...

If its not LRMs, It's PPCs, and if its Not PPCs its ACs, and if its not ACs, its SRMs. When more than "X" of one weapon is used people say that weapon is OP. Well the weapon is not OP. The magnitude it can be loaded up to is. Even then, if every player on the enemy team had only a single LRM10, that is 120 missiles that can rain on your head. LRMs are not a problem, its a fighting game, and with weapons come massed fire. You cannot fix that no matter how much you try.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 October 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Complaint : Weapon system

Indirect Fire : LRMs
Guidance : LRMs SSRMs
Pinpoint Damage : PPCs, All Autocannons, Gauss
Ghost Heat : Weapon over X number
Convergence : All DF weapons particularly pinpoint damage
Splash Damage : LRMs SRMs SSRMs C-ERPPCs
Range : Clan Energy, LRMs, Gauss, Flamers, MGs, SL, SPL, LPL


There's a complaint for every weapon in the game that I can think of and these are the usual reasons. AMS and ECM I left out but they're the worst.

[Lord Perversor]

FupDup, on 24 October 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Outside of very special situations such as being Narc'd without huge cover nearby or playing on Caustic, Lurms aren't all that hard to fight against.

Honorable mention: Sometimes LRM turrets can be pure buIIshit because they get seem to get locks too easily.

and deal dmg under LRM range

[parman01]

Kjudoon, on 25 October 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

Oh?

I await your video or screen caps proving it takes no skill to run an LRMboat. You should be able to beat my better games of 5 kills 7 assists and 1200 damage which I have a handful of in an Orion VA with 40lrms, tag and a single medium laser. After all... it takes no skill to use them. Expect your technique to be graded.

As for LRMs breaking the competition aspect, you never or nearly never see them on winning teams. In the last tournament that you can watch the videos, there was 1 match that went LRM heavy. Most teams will not use them because they don't have precision, speed or high alpha qualities they need.

Please tell me how skillful is the act of cowardly sitting in the back waiting for your team to provide locks and then spam fire button. I fail to see that. Are you trying to say that it's not easy mode? Auto-aim weapons in FPS game is generally very bad idea. But I understand it caters to people who don't want challenge in the game and prefer racking up easy damage and kills.

[Kjudoon]

You say coward, I say sound tactical advantage. Why should anyone who can choose to avoid it, stand there and be punched in the face? I prefer the Jeet Kun Do attitude of not being where the fist is moving. THAT is smart fighting. Do not waste and do not take damage just to prove how tough you are.

Also, what you call a challenge, I don't consider fun, so I won't play that way. You play your way, and I'll play mine. I like my easy kills and big damage because I'm NOT playing this game to challenge myself. If I want a challenge, I'd go in to work because real life is challenging enough. I'm here to entertain myself in the way I enjoy most and escape the craptastic world we live in. When the game ceases to be entertaining, I will find something else to do. It's why I quit training for competition because it's not fun. It's work and not very fun work. Now if they could only bring back the Lance queue and separate small groups from the fiasco known as the Group queue, I'd be very happy.

So you have your opinion and now you have mine.

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 October 2014 - 03:43 AM.

[Astrocanis]

parman01, on 25 October 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Please tell me how skillful is the act of cowardly sitting in the back waiting for your team to provide locks and then spam fire button. I fail to see that. Are you trying to say that it's not easy mode? Auto-aim weapons in FPS game is generally very bad idea. But I understand it caters to people who don't want challenge in the game and prefer racking up easy damage and kills.

I play with a friend who is either in an assault or a light. My functions in my KTO 18 are to soften up, distract and damage his targets. I am very mobile, so sometimes I play long range scout and sometimes I play shake meister with a continuos stream of LRM 5s.

He gets 6-7 kills and I outdamage him and together we turn the tide.

I challenge your 'coward' and call you on skill. Most of my kills, when I get one, are from my single ERLL. Not pinpoint multi fire. Just attempts at weak spots.

I'll see you out there.

Edited by Astrocanis, 25 October 2014 - 04:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Reitrix, on 24 October 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Thereabouts. Sick of seeing a laserpointer touch me and then as soon as i've registered that theres a TAG on me, MISSILES INCOMING.
And thats a fraction of a second after popping my head out of cover.

On maps like Alpine, if the enemy team is LRM heavy and takes the hill, they can just trundle up that huge spire that overlooks 2/3rds of the map and you cannot escape. Can't venture out to take a potshot because the instant you step clear of cover, theres hundreds of missiles flying at you.

Today i even watched an LRM salvo pull a right angle in front of me to hit a Raven that jumped off the cliff (Alpine) to avoid a salvo.

LRMs themselves are not overpowered, they do have a few hardcounters, more than is perhaps fair for a weapon system.
The problem however, is that 1~ second lock times with Artemis means you can lock and fire ridiculously fast, combined with Radar Decay module, you will often find yourself getting relentlessly pounded even after getting to what appears to be cover.

This may just be me going crazy, but i could swear Artemis, which is supposed to only give its bonuses to targets in LoS of the launcher (IIRC anyways) will treat even indirect targets as in LoS for better grouping and improved Lock speeds.

In my honest opinion (as someone who has several 'mechs built as dedicated LRM boats and enjoys the playstyle) LRMs need have their Lock time increased to 4 - 5 seconds, With TAG improving that lock time.
Get rid of Radar Decay and Radar Deprivation.
Have ECM increase lock time by 1 - 2 seconds, along with removing the stealth aspect.
Finally, have Indirect Fire enabled *only* if the target is affected by either TAG or NARC.

I feel like those simple changes would turn the LRM into a strong support weapon without having its effectiveness dictated entirely by 2 modules that may or may not be in play and a 1/1.5 ton piece of equipment only a select few 'Mechs can carry.

My favorite thing? When one of your Light Mechs gets noticed, enemy team fires 300 LRMs at it...and the stupid bugger runs into the middle off his team, drawing those LRMs right into my face. Just about unloaded a dual ac20 into our Spider one match because the idiot KEPT doing it.

[StraferX]

Funny thread and I was not going to reply because there are 7,923 just like it where Op complains about LRM's then a thousand LRM' fan boys come out and say L2P, get radar derp 2 AMS find cover and stay out of the open and LRM's are so hard to play yet so Easy to get away from.

Fact of the matter is that sometimes you need to cross an open area to get to another strategic position then lo and behold the never ending rain of rockets. And match maker normally has it set these days so that one team has 1 ecm and 1 rocket thrower who is generally picking herbs and making potions on the wrong side of the map and oblivious to the battle while the other team has 6 rocket launching beast reigning death to anything with in the oh unlimited distance circumference of their team.

I don't really care as I do not take this game all to seriously due to these type of things and I make my builds fast enough to out run and dodge your nonsense and use that AMS tonnage for more LRM boat killing equipment. I so feel for new players trying to get into the game as they must get so frustrated after about 4 matches and just run away.

Honestly LRM damage is about that of extreme long range machine gun fire +/_ and takes the skill of I see you smash a button and rack up points, I wont argue this as I have played it and it is as easy as cake. My only point is to either allow LRM capped servers to only 5million rounds instead of the current 80 million rounds but to make them actually take skill and cause heavy damage not just a glowing wound but lose a leg or arm so I propose this change.

1. if you are direct line of sight or narc/tagged you are open game and targets by LRM and it takes a major evasive maneuver to avoid contact with rocket.

2. On the event than an drone or a scout or your team has covered an area the LRM boat obtains an topographical map of said area that increases with data as it is collected. LRM boat mini map becomes a tool where pilot can select specific spot or targeted enemy and drop heavy targeting rocket or cover fire micro rockets to that location.

3. Damage matters no just side step and avoid. if your hit you lose body parts if it hits your immediate radius you potentially receive heavy damage.

My question is that if Rockets are so ineffective as the LRM fanboys say then why do I always see a ton of them? and if they are not used in competition then why is it that every 12 man drop I come up against has 4-6 LRM boats with them?

Answer because they are easy as cake but this will never change so thread is worthless is worthless thread.