161 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

As PGI has stated many, many times, the point of the quirk system is to make all mechs into Tier 1 mechs.

Nope.

Theyve actually repeatedly said the opposite. You apparently dont pay any attention to the twitter feed, or that last month or so of Quirks discussion.

Its about making mechs with zero things to do, have one thing to do. Period.

Clearly youre just a troll

[Kaeb Odellas]

Okay, let's get this thread back on track. Stop arguing about pointless bullshit. It's not helpful.

So here are the upcoming quirks:

Energy Weapon Range +12.5% (MPL +25%)
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5% (MPL +25%)
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5% (MPL -25%)
Laser Weapon Duration -12.5% (MPL -25%)

I think most people would agree that this won't be sufficient to make this thing useful. So what does it need? Here are some suggestions from the thread:

-Increase torso pitch angle to allow the Spider to shoot down at mechs from higher angles.
-Increase jump jet fuel capacity/generation.
-Reduce fall damage.

Here's some I'm suggesting now:

-Move hardpoints from CT to side torsos.
-More forward thrust from jump jets
-No forward velocity loss while jumping

So, which should it have, and why?

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 29 October 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[C12AZyED]

Anyone who believes that two medium pulse lasers on centre torso mount is a viable build, is clearly delusional. Grinding through the 5V back in the day was one of the most demoralising gaming experiences ive ever had, and that was when fall damage was negligible anyway!

This mech is clearly a non combat support/scout/capper, and its offensive capabilities are so pathetic that anything below attaching a Death Star's Concave Dish Composite Beam Superlaser would still render this mech practically useless, regardless of any medium pulse laser buffs.

Real quirks would be:
1. Immune to fall damage.
2. Can regenerate jump jet fuel in midair


This mech was meant to fly, nuff said.

[Felio]

As far as movement quirks, I have posted before (tongue in cheek) that they need to tweak its torso pitch until there is clipping in the geometry, then tweak the geometry and add even more torso pitch.

To compare to how far the other Spiders can move their arm-mounted weapons:

Horizontal: 110° torso yaw and 40° arm yaw

Vertical: 20° torso pitch and 30° arm pitch

And of course arms move faster than torsi, and they can be used to shoot at a target without facing it directly.

Given that, it seems to me that the SDR-5V's movement range total (torso + arms) and torso movement speed should exceed that of its counterparts. Either that or be prepared to do something exceptional with its other perks, but I'm not really a fan of exceptions to the rules.

[Alistair Winter]

Just let it go. This mech will never be good, PGI doesn't care. How long did we wait for these buffs? And what did we get, when they finally did something? An extra +0.2 DPS?

Game over, man. Game over.

[El Bandito]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

2x MPL is the highest short-range DPS on the 5D also, except it also brings ECM. So, no, you really don't have a point here...

Except there is no guarantee the 5D will receive any MPL quirks. So no, my point stills tands.

[Xarian]

KraftySOT, on 29 October 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Nope.

Theyve actually repeatedly said the opposite. You apparently dont pay any attention to the twitter feed, or that last month or so of Quirks discussion.

Its about making mechs with zero things to do, have one thing to do. Period.

Clearly youre just a troll

I dare you to find one single example where Russ or any of the rest of the Dev staff said that they want to keep T5 variants permanently stuck down at T5 status. Quit trying to spread this lie, and stop trying to use it to shut down discussion. Quirks are an attempt by PGI to bump particiularly bad mechs up into T1 status with specific loadouts - to give us a reason to buy and use the mechs.

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Just let it go. This mech will never be good, PGI doesn't care. How long did we wait for these buffs? And what did we get, when they finally did something? An extra +0.2 DPS?

Game over, man. Game over.

Again, "it's unfixable, stop trying" is not a valid argument. This is a thread about improving quirks, and telling us to stop discussing is not helpful or appreciated.

[Felio]

El Bandito, on 29 October 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Except there is no guarantee the 5D will receive any MPL quirks. So no, my point stills tands.

The 5D could receive C-LRM20 quirks, and it would still be better with MPLs than the quirked 5V.

[Xarian]

El Bandito, on 29 October 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Except there is no guarantee the 5D will receive any MPL quirks. So no, my point stills tands.

A Spider 5D with ECM and 3x MPL has 15% higher DPS than the Spider 5V (already discussed this) plus ECM - and that's ignoring any additional quirks that the 5D will get.

[Xarian]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 October 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

I think most people would agree that this won't be sufficient to make this thing useful. So what does it need? Here are some suggestions from the thread:

-Increase torso pitch angle to allow the Spider to shoot down at mechs from higher angles.
-Increase jump jet fuel capacity/generation.
-Reduce fall damage.

Here's some I'm suggesting now:

-Move hardpoints from CT to side torsos.
-More forward thrust from jump jets
-No forward velocity loss while jumping

So, which should it have, and why?

Increased torso pitch is a great change but out of the scope of this discussion - PGI is specifically not adding movement-based traits/quirks at this time.

I suggested JJ fuel/capacity and fall damage in the first place, so I'd obviously want them.

Moving hardpoints goes away from the lore variant and is also outside the scope of a quirk, so no.
Forward thrust (and removing horizontal velocity loss) for Jump Jets would be a good change, but only if it didn't take anything away from the vertical thrust.

[El Bandito]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

A Spider 5D with ECM and 3x MPL has 15% higher DPS than the Spider 5V (already discussed this) plus ECM - and that's ignoring any additional quirks that the 5D will get.

Except if you try to fit 3 MPL+ECM, your 5D is going to be underarmored, and I highly doubt the 5D is going to get any MPL quirks.

Also, the 5V has max engine rating of 285, while 5D only has engine rating of 255. 5V has higher speed and better twist, thanks to larger engine.

If you lower 5V's engine rating to that of 5D, to 255, you can cram in 11 JJs, as opposed to 8 JJs the 5D can have max.

5V still has its uniqueness.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 October 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

1. Spider 5v remains a niche, novelty mech.
2. 10 (or 11) JJ is still too much
3. Who in their right mind keeps that much armor on the arms and head of that spider?
4. Really easy to run xl 285 between 2 & 3.

[FupDup]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Again, "it's unfixable, stop trying" is not a valid argument. This is a thread about improving quirks, and telling us to stop discussing is not helpful or appreciated.

I don't think Alistair was being literal here. I interpreted him as being mostly cynical/disenfranchised in that he doesn't trust them to even out the balance.

[Mcgral18]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 October 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Okay, let's get this thread back on track. Stop arguing about pointless bullshit. It's not helpful.

So here are the upcoming quirks:

[color=#FF0000]Energy Weapon Range +12.5% [/color](MPL +25%)
[color=#FF0000]Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%[/color] (MPL +25%)
[color=#FF0000]Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%[/color] (MPL -25%)
[color=#FF0000]Laser Weapon Duration -12.5%[/color] (MPL -25%)

I think most people would agree that this won't be sufficient to make this thing useful. So what does it need? Here are some suggestions from the thread:

-Increase torso pitch angle to allow the Spider to shoot down at mechs from higher angles.
-Increase jump jet fuel capacity/generation.
-Reduce fall damage.

Here's some I'm suggesting now:

-Move hardpoints from CT to side torsos.
-More forward thrust from jump jets
-No forward velocity loss while jumping

So, which should it have, and why?

Rather than move the CT hardpoints; just add an additional one to each ST.

4 E hardpoints would make it the gunboat Spider, with lots of JJs, hopefully better torso pitch, but no Jesus Box.

4 MLs would be alright, I think. No worse than the 5K, though arguably better....

Edited by Mcgral18, 29 October 2014 - 02:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 29 October 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Rather than move the CT hardpoints; just add additional one to each ST.

4 E hardpoints would make it the gunboat Spider, with lots of JJs, hopefully better torso pitch, but no Jesus Box.

4 MLs would be alright, I think. No worse than the 5K, though arguably better....

Well, the 5K is a special case within itself. The Ember totally invalidates its purpose/existence to begin with...

I'd just be happy with 1 more energy hardpoint on the Spider-5V... particularly on the arm. They already have the models based on the Anansi (especially the LA), so it shouldn't take too much effort to "buff" the 5V's hardpoints.

[Xarian]

El Bandito, on 29 October 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Except if you try to fit 3 MPL+ECM, your 5D is going to be underarmored, and I highly doubt the 5D is going to get any MPL quirks.

Also, the 5V has max engine rating of 285, while 5D only has engine rating of 255. 5V has higher speed and better twist, thanks to larger engine.

If you lower 5V's engine rating to that of 5D, to 255, you can cram in 11 JJs, as opposed to 8 JJs the 5D can have max.

5V still has its uniqueness.

Or you could remove 2x JJ and have full armor, or just use Medium Lasers instead of MPL. And the 5D will certainly have energy quirks of some kind...

[Durant Carlyle]

I'll be running my SDR-5V for about six hours, starting right after I post this. Find me in a match and I'll show you how viable a well-piloted non-ECM Spider can be...

*throws down the gauntlet*

[Deathlike]

Durant Carlyle, on 29 October 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

I'll be running my SDR-5V for about six hours, starting right after I post this. Find me in a match and I'll show you how viable a well-piloted non-ECM Spider can be...

*throws down the gauntlet*

Always a good target to be legged...

[InspectorG]

I would like to see a buff to reverse speed and TURNING SPEED on land AND in air. More explosive JJ.

Might as well make it the most agile mech.

Got extra tonnage? BAP. AMS for shield siblings.

The buffs to MPL sound nice. Why not just make it for a blanket 'all lasers' buff?

Wubsteppin in mah Spider mark V

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dont you see

Tops marks with tha
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Down to the cookin, 12 full bottle, of the Sweet Baby Ray's(we baste like the Boss)

Bringing da V, broilin down to the simmer. Watch the heat, reds beat rinse times twelve we repeat.
Laying ma webs - fractal intricate Fibonacci maze with the
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So
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Locust trained in the FEAR
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Solid rock without the tool that
you Puglandia fools hold so dear
White picket fence, no Walter here
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it hits your ear.
Wubs ring-out pugmates disappear dozen minus X your QQ left for all to hear

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dont you see

[Ialdabaoth]

It would be really nice if extra jump jets provided a horizontal speed boost while thrusting that scaled linearly with the number of jets. Something noticeable enough to course-correct in midair without ranging into MW2 Gerwalk territory. This would make the 5V viable without having to code specific quirks, since it's the only thing that can take so many jets.