161 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Until the collision code actually allows for DFAs, spending tonnage on more lasers is more valuable than adding an ***load of Hoverjets™. It could definitely use a boost of its quirks from 30% to 50% currently since I doubt we will ever see side torso lasers and especially arm lasers.

[InspectorG]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

5V needs quirks to make it a viable Light choice. These quirks don't do that, and they don't play to the Spider 5V's strengths whatsoever. Even the best 5V build was bad before; these quirks are supporting a bad build and doing a poor job of it.

Spider V in a Stock Build only match is a BOSS.

Issue is not 'builds' per se, its porting BT into MWO.

It benefits from the MPL, because you want those shot burn times to focus damage and minimize face time.
Max JJ is lol and lets you reach interesting places but you dont need all them in general.

[KraftySOT]

No ones done this yet?

SDR-5V

Youre bad OP. Just bad.

The only reason you have JJs is to get on top of things and make routes that otherwise dont exist. There is absolutely no reason to pretend that youre a bird.

I mean yer 5kph under the 'breaking HSR completely'. With a cable connection dropping packets, you can actually use those two MPLs.

Its viable but hardly great.

[Matthew Ace]

You guys realise this is a necro'd thread right?

I still think the 5V could use a TAG only hardpoint somewhere. The arm or head maybe?

Edited by Matthew Ace, 16 March 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[Bigbacon]

if you have tweak you can get away with a slower engine like a 270 and still get 160kph, 11JJ, 2mpl

[Corviness]

So, hello guys. I have made my "mechwarrior math homeworks" and come to the point, the Spider 5V is good! I explain it here:

I'm a light pilot and my most used mech since mechwarrior online starts is the commando, especially the COM-TDK (Commando The Death Knell) and 2nd was a Spider, before Clan Invasion. So i have experience with both mech types and of course with Locust, Jenner, etc.
I make around 500 damage every match, if I have a weak team (loose) maybe sometimes 200 less and if I have a strong team (win) maybe sometimes 200 more so 300 to 700 on average. I read and follow the discussion about the Spider 5V a long time. Before mech quirks introduced, it was a bad mech, right. But I compare the damage of my COM-TDK and a Spider 5V after mech quirks introducted and come to this result:

I calculate the damage of both mechs. Commando tdk with 4 medium laser and the Spider 5V with 2 medium pulse laser (That was not difficult, but very "dry", I dont like math.) So, its all in. The durotation and cooldown from the 2 lasertypes, the quirks of both mechs and the cooldown module from medium laser and medium puls laser (all numbers from http://mwo.smurfy-net.de)

Here is the result:

Spider 5V | Commando TDK

1,08 s = 6 damage | 1,72 s = 10 damage
2,16 s = 12 damage | 2,58 s = 15 damage
3,24 s = 18 damage | 3,44 s = 20 damage
4,32 s = 24 damage | 4,30 s = 25 damage
5,40 s = 30 damage | 5,16 s = 30 damage
6,48 s = 36 damage | 6,02 s = 35 damage
7,56 s = 42 damage | 6,88 s = 40 damage
8,64 s = 48 damage | 7,74 s = 45 damage
9,72 s = 54 damage | 8,60 s = 50 damage
10,80s = 60 damage | 9,46 s = 55 damage
---------------------------- 10,32s = 60 damage

Use see, my Commando tdk makes not so much more damage than the Spider 5V. The 5 tons more on the Spider 5V gives her/him the possibility to take 5 additional jumpjets AND Beagle Active Probe at full armor and max engine! So guys, you can recalculate it, but I checked my calculation and find no mistake. For me, it's a advanced Commando with jumpjets.

But if you can't handle light mechs (with jumpjets too) its immaterial!.

PS:
My COM-TDK build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...26a937aaee17abe

My SDR-5V build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6273d0960663610

Edited by Corviness, 20 March 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Corviness, on 20 March 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

So, hello guys. I have made my "mechwarrior math homeworks" and come to the point, the Spider 5V is good! I explain it here:

I'm a light pilot and my most used mech since mechwarrior online starts is the commando, especially the COM-TDK (Commando The Death Knell) and 2nd was a Spider, before Clan Invasion. So i have experience with both mech types and of course with Locust, Jenner, etc.
I make around 500 damage every match, if I have a weak team (loose) maybe sometimes 200 less and if I have a strong team (win) maybe sometimes 200 more so 300 to 700 on average. I read and follow the discussion about the Spider 5V a long time. Before mech quirks introduced, it was a bad mech, right. But I compare the damage of my COM-TDK and a Spider 5V after mech quirks introducted and come to this result:

I calculate the damage of both mechs. Commando tdk with 4 medium laser and the Spider 5V with 2 medium pulse laser (That was not difficult, but very "dry", I dont like math.) So, its all in. The durotation and cooldown from the 2 lasertypes, the quirks of both mechs and the cooldown module from medium laser and medium puls laser (all numbers from http://mwo.smurfy-net.de)

Here is the result:

Spider 5V | Commando TDK

1,08 s = 6 damage | 1,72 s = 10 damage
2,16 s = 12 damage | 2,58 s = 15 damage
3,24 s = 18 damage | 3,44 s = 20 damage
4,32 s = 24 damage | 4,30 s = 25 damage
5,40 s = 30 damage | 5,16 s = 30 damage
6,48 s = 36 damage | 6,02 s = 35 damage
7,56 s = 42 damage | 6,88 s = 40 damage
8,64 s = 48 damage | 7,74 s = 45 damage
9,72 s = 54 damage | 8,60 s = 50 damage
10,80s = 60 damage | 9,46 s = 55 damage
---------------------------- 10,32s = 60 damage

Use see, my Commando tdk makes not so much more damage than the Spider 5V. The 5 tons more on the Spider 5V gives her/him the possibility to take 5 additional jumpjets AND Beagle Active Probe at full armor and max engine! So guys, you can recalculate it, but I checked my calculation and find no mistake. For me, it's a advanced Commando with jumpjets.

But if you can't handle light mechs (with jumpjets too) its immaterial!.

PS:
My COM-TDK build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...26a937aaee17abe

My SDR-5V build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6273d0960663610

Death's Knell deals 20 damage in 0.81 seconds, while the Spider deals 12 damage in .42 seconds.

DK has a 2.49 ML cooldown with the 17% bonus, without any quirks.
5V has a 1.59 MPL (or ML) cooldown with the 17% bonus+30% quirk.

For a complete damage+recycle it's 3.3 seconds for the DK for 20 damage, or 2.01 for the Spider at 12 damage.

In a ~10 second period, a DK will deal 60 damage (or 80 damage in 10.71 seconds)
In 10.47s, a spider 5V will deal 72



I still say the advantage goes to the DK. Nearly twice the damage in an alpha, and in a light mech, you don't want to stick around. Speeds are both similar, and both have good movement archetypes.


The Koshi could be a combination of the two; 4 jumping lasers moving at 180...but Bad Clams can't have good things. If only it were an IS Robot.

[Corviness]

Mcgral18, on 20 March 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Death's Knell deals 20 damage in 0.81 seconds, while the Spider deals 12 damage in .42 seconds.

DK has a 2.49 ML cooldown with the 17% bonus, without any quirks.
5V has a 1.59 MPL (or ML) cooldown with the 17% bonus+30% quirk.

For a complete damage+recycle it's 3.3 seconds for the DK for 20 damage, or 2.01 for the Spider at 12 damage.

In a ~10 second period, a DK will deal 60 damage (or 80 damage in 10.71 seconds)
In 10.47s, a spider 5V will deal 72



I still say the advantage goes to the DK. Nearly twice the damage in an alpha, and in a light mech, you don't want to stick around. Speeds are both similar, and both have good movement archetypes.


The Koshi could be a combination of the two; 4 jumping lasers moving at 180...but Bad Clams can't have good things. If only it were an IS Robot.

From where do you get the 17% bonus off cooldown? the cooldown module gives 12% and the COM-TDK has no cooldown quirk.
The spider has 42%, splitted in 30% quirk cooldown and 12% cooldown module.
Thats your mistake in your calculation. take of 5% and you get my results.

Nevertheless, you and all pilots can see, the damage/time comparsion shows, that the SDR 5V is nearly good, as the COM-TDK and it has a bonus called Jumpjets+BAP+bigger engine (170 kph). And if I make round 500 damage per game with my COM-TDK, everyone else can do it to, same with the SDR-5V.

But, it would be nice, to have 17%, than, the Spider 5V would make even more damage in a shorter time

Edited by Corviness, 20 March 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Corviness, on 20 March 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

From where do you get the 17% bonus off cooldown? the cooldown module gives 12% and the COM-TDK has no cooldown quirk.
The spider has 42%, splitted in 30% quirk cooldown and 12% cooldown module.
Thats your mistake in your calculation. take of 5% and you get my results.

Nevertheless, you and all pilots can see, the damage/time comparsion shows, that the SDR 5V is nearly good, as the COM-TDK and it has a bonus called Jumpjets+BAP. And if I make round 500 damage per game with my COM-TDK, everyone else can do it to, same with the SDR-5V.

But, it would be nice, to have 17%, than, the Spider 5V would make even more damage in a shorter time

12% module+5% FastFire efficiency.

BAP isn't much of a benefit.

Edited by Mcgral18, 20 March 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

They need to scrap the 5-V completely.

If it only had a replacement with 4 energy, 1 for each arm, and 2 on the chest or 1 in each torso.. man oh man..
I would actually play it.

[Corviness]

Mcgral18, on 20 March 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

12% module+5% FastFire efficiency.

BAP isn't much of a benefit.

Ah, you mean the basics/elites!. *bling* mh, okay. Than the Spider makes more damage in a shorter time, than my list. Is this the normal 1x basic bonus or the 2x, if you have elited all spiders?.

[Matthew Ace]

Mister D, on 20 March 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

They need to scrap the 5-V completely.

If it only had a replacement with 4 energy, 1 for each arm, and 2 on the chest or 1 in each torso.. man oh man..
I would actually play it.

You mean, like a Venom? Only that the energies are all torso mounted. 35 ton spider with 4 MPL.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I dunno, I think PGI could just pull another custom job, and build it like this.

RA-1E
RT-0
CT-2E
LT-AMS
LA-1E

I don't see the 5-V listed on Sarna anyway, closest one is called the 7-K, which carries the 2 medpulse.
If the Spider 5-v was replaced with a variant with 4 energy, it would be a solid variant worth playing.

Edited by Mister D, 21 March 2015 - 03:09 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

UrsusMorologus, on 29 October 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

You dont have to do the most damage to help the team win

Get on tall buildings where no other mech can reach you. Use sensor range extender module and BAP and you can lock targets at something like 1300m. 1x ERLL will get you points on any mech you can see.

Thats what the 5V does that no other mech can do

Buffs to MPLs are fkng stupid

Aside from the Mist Lynx, Panther and with some creative jump jetting, every other jump capable light.

[Matthew Ace]

Mister D, on 21 March 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

I dunno, I think PGI could just pull another custom job, and build it like this.

RA-1E
RT-0
CT-2E
LT-AMS
LA-1E

I don't see the 5-V listed on Sarna anyway, closest one is called the 7-K, which carries the 2 medpulse.
If the Spider 5-v was replaced with a variant with 4 energy, it would be a solid variant worth playing.

The 5V is the stock 3025 Spider. 2 ML.

Can't say I agree with the sentiment that the 5V is not worth playing; It's more enjoyable to pilot than most of the lights I have tried before.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 21 March 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Matthew Ace, on 21 March 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

The 5V is the stock 3025 Spider. 2 ML.

Can't say I agree with the sentiment that the 5V is not worth playing; It's more enjoyable to pilot than most of the lights I have tried before.

LOL its always somebody..

[Mcgral18]

Corviness, on 21 March 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

Ah, you mean the basics/elites!. *bling* mh, okay. Than the Spider makes more damage in a shorter time, than my list. Is this the normal 1x basic bonus or the 2x, if you have elited all spiders?.

It's an elite skill, the 6000 XP one. You need 3 spiders Basic'ed to unlock it.

Edited by Mcgral18, 21 March 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[Deathlike]

Spider-5V: The posterchild for terrible hardpoint distribution.

The only thing it does better is that it's all CT... whereas the Mist Lynx has arms that have large flotation devices built in to save itself from drowning.

Congrats Spider-5V, I hope you gain 6MGs someday.

[LordNothing]

take out a jump jet, upgrade armor to ff and you can get an xl270 in there and get it up to 145kph. sounds pretty viable. stick on both mpl modules and you are in buisness.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 March 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Xarian, on 29 October 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

MPL refire time: 0.6 + 3.0 = 3.6 seconds => 1.667 DPS
MPL refire time with 5V quirks: 0.45 + 2.4 = 2.85 seconds => 2.105 DPS

New 5V with 2x MPL: 4.210 DPS
Generic mech with no quirks whatsoever using 3x MPL: 5.0 DPS

15% less DPS is not "practically more". It is significantly less.

Yet .60 and .45 is 'practically the same number'?

Please, troll on.