281 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

LRMs are the same way. Of course you can avoid them. But avoiding them, compensating for them, makes the game just as crappy as if you just walked out and got LRMed to death.

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

The play style that you have to adapt to avoid them. Is just as crappy for many people, as not avoiding them at all.

Read.

Sitzkrieg sucks. Camping sucks.

If you believe the only way to avoid LRMs is to cower in fear of them... You sir... ARE... the definition of a bad player.

[Marcus Tanner]

Livewyr, on 03 November 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

You joke yes? Come group with me and I will show you my bracket.

Livewyr will show you the world. Shining. Shimmering. Splendid.

mogs01gt, on 04 November 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Lots of my matches had LRMs in them, I never had a single issue with them and I never died to them. I spent most of the matches baiting LRMs. Its pretty easy.

I'm a big fan of the n00b tubes myself. It lets me play the game on a craptop.

I can't remember the last time I died to them, though.

---

Perhaps we need an "it gets better" thread, where players talk about how they stopped dying to LRMs.

---

I get the feeling that the "INCOMING MISSILES" warning is part of the problem here. It's stressful. I'd be up for removing the warning, but nerfing the weapon some other way to compensate.

[Mavairo]

LRM threads are the single greatest way to determine someone's ELO in this game.

The steeringwheel players, whine about them.

Everyone else at best wonders wtf they're doing so utterly wrong. And derides the underhive participants for barely being able to install the game by themselves, and then having the nerve to whine about the easiest weapon system in the game to defeat.

Edited by Mavairo, 04 November 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Kensaisama]

mogs01gt, on 04 November 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Typical LRM complainer, unable to understand clear issues with the game and place the blame on a weapon.

I suggest using the search tool and reading through the hundreds of threads regarding LRMs.

Well like I said sport, your reading and comprehension skills are not the greatest in the world. I guess you didn't reread Tenacious B's post and my reply to said post, you're just assuming I am complaning about LRM's, thats ok, I understand you're mentally challenged.

Edited by Kensaisama, 04 November 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[TygerLily]

I'm okay with LRMs currently and I actually do like IS LRMs more due to the huge cluster they fire in. But Clans can simply bring MORE LRMs (or rather larger launchers for similar tonnage). AMS is more effective vs their stream of missiles as well as creates a window to escape (a kind of "beam duration" element to CLRMs). I do wish the impulse on them was much lower...but then, who does like PTSD?

I'd be 100% on board with not having target sharing in this game.

Except if:

- An enemy is being TAGged or NARC'd or exposed via UAV. It appears for all.

- An enemy is "R" targeted by a Mech carrying a C3 Slave (1 tons, 1 crit) or Command Console. Then, any other units carrying CC or C3 can see the target. So long as one CC remains, the target sharing remains. If there are no CCs then - even if some C3 remain - there is no target sharing. Gives the CC a real purpose for costing 1 mil and weighing 3 tons...current benefits aren't worth the weight. Also, if I remember correctly, CC is only available to Assaults and Heavies. Further defining their roles beyond meatshield/damage dealer.

- An enemy is "R" targeted by a Mech carrying BAP who is within 360 meters. Would focus indirect fire on to targets their teammates are brawling. I think this would kind of accentuate both roles.

Edited by TygerLily, 04 November 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Mercules]

Kensaisama, on 04 November 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Well like I said sport, your reading and comprehension skills are not the greatest in the world. I guess you didn't reread Tenacious B's post and my reply to said post, your just assuming I am complaning about LRM's, thats ok, I understand your mentally challenged.

Kensaisama, on 04 November 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I agree with your point on AMS provided only one or two enemy mechs are sporting LRM's in limited amounts, unfortunately the majority of games there are two or more LRM40+ monsters out there and AMS is not going to do squat. So telling someone to bring AMS in those situations is not really the answer either.

Kensaisama, on 04 November 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Radar Dep is not going to help if you are under the influence of TAG, NARC, or in LOS of an enemy mech and actively targeted. AMS is not going to help if you are getting rained on by LRM40+ monsters, cover is not going to help if there isn't any, you cannot get to it in time if there is. or the other team is better organized at positioning even if there is cover to be had. ECM can be defeated easily now a days so thats not really an option either. Any further pearls of wisdom you care to share?

Kensaisama, on 04 November 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Then enlighten us good sir, if the issue isn't about LRM's, as most of the conversation taking place in this thread is, then what is the issue?

You're (notice the 're) not complaining, huh?

[Kensaisama]

Mercules, on 04 November 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

You're (notice the 're) not complaining, huh?

LOL thanks Mercules

Look carefully though at those posts, I am not complaining, I am just saying that sometimes no matter what you bring or how carefully you play to mitigate LRM's, oftentimes it is just not enough.

Edited by Kensaisama, 04 November 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Mercules, on 04 November 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

If you believe the only way to avoid LRMs is to cower in fear of them... You sir... ARE... the definition of a bad player.

Oh right I can pilot a crappy mech with 3 ams, or be forced to take ecm every time. Magic Jesus boxes are a solution.

God forbid I want to use any of the other 60 mechs/variants.

Hump the ecms leg...who is playing peek abo...and sit around and wait. I can find a DDC and hump his leg.

Seriously, the entire game revolves around "what to do about LRMS". The maps are designed around it. Theres a magic jesus box to deal with. People have complained about it straight for two years. Theres radar derp for it.

In the group queue LRMs are practically non existent because of the hard counters invented for them to solve the main problem.

In pug games, everyone is this:



"OH **** LRMS"

While I sit there for 6 minutes waiting for people to get bored, so I have something to shoot at, in just about every brawler mech you can take.

Sure I COULD have taken my Raven 3L for the 10th time and not worried about LRMs ever.

But that doesnt mean someone else out there isnt getting pounded and turning the game off in frustration.

Like the **** analogy. Just because you can avoid getting ***** by not going out, ever...doesnt mean **** isnt still a problem. Someone is getting *****. Someone s still getting lrmed to death for whatever reason, because indirect fire, is ******* stupid.

[mogs01gt]

Kensaisama, on 04 November 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Well like I said sport, your reading and comprehension skills are not the greatest in the world. I guess you didn't reread Tenacious B's post and my reply to said post, you're just assuming I am complaning about LRM's, thats ok, I understand you're mentally challenged.

I will give you a link to help you learn. You're simply beating a dead horse because you do not want to learn about the game.

http://mwomercs.com/...e=forums&q=LRMs

Edited by mogs01gt, 04 November 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And every, single, map, is designed to mitigate what would in an open field, be PAINFULLY obvious.

That indirect fire, lrm rate of fire, etc, are a problem.

Fact is, PGI has said a few times, they dont even know how to do Line of Sight only targeting. They cant do it. Indirect fire is a direct result in its function, of a DEFICIENCY, in programming ability, on the part of PGI. Its not even a DESIGN CHOICE.

So yes, its obviously a problem. If you say it isnt, youre an *******. Plain and simple, and continuing to troll people saying "you suck" because they can tell its a problem, even if it isnt a problem for them, but for the games health in general, does absolutely nothing.

[RockmachinE]

LRMs are still a huge nuisance. You literally can't do ANYTHING without getting a lock. The only option is running your own ECM and that has serious limitations.

Like I said many times individually LRMs are not a problem on their own, they are not overpowered per se, but they CONTROL GAMEPLAY BY DEMANDING WAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION IN ORDER TO REACT TO THEM.

MWO HAS BECOME ABOUT COUNTERING AND DODGING LRMS 75% OF THE TIME.

THE VERY FACT THAT THERE'S SO MANY REALLY LONG THREADS CONSTANTLY POPPING UP ABOUT LRMS MEANS THEY ARE A PROBLEM.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 04 November 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Mercules]

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Oh right I can pilot a crappy mech with 3 ams, or be forced to take ecm every time. Magic Jesus boxes are a solution.

God forbid I want to use any of the other 60 mechs/variants.

Hump the ecms leg...who is playing peek abo...and sit around and wait. I can find a DDC and hump his leg.

Seriously, the entire game revolves around "what to do about LRMS". The maps are designed around it. Theres a magic jesus box to deal with. People have complained about it straight for two years. Theres radar derp for it.

In the group queue LRMs are practically non existent because of the hard counters invented for them to solve the main problem.

In pug games, everyone is this:



"OH **** LRMS"

While I sit there for 6 minutes waiting for people to get bored, so I have something to shoot at, in just about every brawler mech you can take.

Sure I COULD have taken my Raven 3L for the 10th time and not worried about LRMs ever.

But that doesnt mean someone else out there isnt getting pounded and turning the game off in frustration.

Like the **** analogy. Just because you can avoid getting ***** by not going out, ever...doesnt mean **** isnt still a problem. Someone is getting *****. Someone s still getting lrmed to death for whatever reason, because indirect fire, is ******* stupid.

Keep repeating yourself. I'll just keep pointing out that I run around in mechs without ECM, don't sit in cover for fear of LRMs, and manage to not get killed by LRMs. As I am doing it, it apparently can be done. Alternately you can tell me it can't be done(while I continue to do it) and sit in your corner hiding and complaining about how you have to hide.

I play in the group queue and I OFTEN play in the PuG queue. I don't really change my playstyle. If I follow an ECM mech it's to avoid being noticed, not because of LRMs. Typically I don't even worry about where the ECM is anymore because unless NARC'd I can negate LRMs by simply being aware of my surroundings.

I don't sit in one spot. I don't meekly poke forward cringing in fear. I've learned how to deal with them and so can confidently advance and fight.

[Johnny Z]

I read the topic title as "This Camel Is Out Of Control"

[Kensaisama]

mogs01gt, on 04 November 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

I will give you a link to help you learn. You're simply beating a dead horse because you do not want to learn about the game.

http://mwomercs.com/...e=forums&q=LRMs

[REDACTED]

Edited by Stickjock, 04 November 2014 - 12:21 PM.
non-constructive/flaming

[KraftySOT]

So you can keep going back and forth for another two years...LRMs are OP, no you suck, LRMS are OP, no you suck, even when its people who win the chassis tournaments, who clearly dont suck, saying no, LRMS are not OP, its the implementation of the indirect fire and the tendency towards 'path of least resistance' that leads to a meta that currently exists, where people in PUG games hide behind hills for 8 minutes, while some poor sap who doesnt know any better gets LRMed to death, then deletes the game.

Regardless of them being terribad or not...its toxic. It causes even good players, to sit there. Bored to tears. Im not leaving the mechball, thats not smart, so there I am in my 270m brawler. Waiting.

And waiting.

And waiting.

And waiting.

After I already waited in the queue. Waited in the load screen. Waited while my mech started up. Waited while I got to the position the ball wants to take. Wait while the scouts shoot at each other. Wait while the lrms duel. Wait while everyone hides. Wait till 1 or 2 people are killed.

HOLY CRAP NOW I GET TO DO SOMETHING.

5 kills and 700 damage later. Its alot of fun.

But its obvious that the reason the entire 13 minute process to get to the fun is such an ordeal, is indirect fire LRMs. It changes everything. It changes how the maps are designed, how the flow of the game functions, what determines victory...aww no ECM? No win for you....

And then you got the lowest common denominator, the people who gravitate towards what works, telling you that you suck, with a 5/1 KDR in most mechs, because you can plainly see that LRMS are mishandled.

LRMs are neither over powered, nor do people who think theyre a problem, simply suck.

Because of factors beyond our control, LRMs are, for the time being, the way they are. And they arent right. Period.

[Mercules]

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

And every, single, map, is designed to mitigate what would in an open field, be PAINFULLY obvious.

That indirect fire, lrm rate of fire, etc, are a problem.

Cover... oddly enough... also negates Direct Fire. Now if you had no cover you would die to Gauss/PPC/Laser fire so much faster than you would die to LRMs.

[mogs01gt]

Mercules, on 04 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Cover... oddly enough... also negates Direct Fire. Now if you had no cover you would die to Gauss/PPC/Laser fire so much faster than you would die to LRMs.

One alpha is all it would take or maybe two depending on the mech. I like how LRM complainers ignore that...

Edited by mogs01gt, 04 November 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[Mercules]

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Regardless of them being terribad or not...its toxic. It causes even good players, to sit there. Bored to tears. Im not leaving the mechball, thats not smart, so there I am in my 270m brawler. Waiting.

No... that is where you are incorrect. It's not the good players sitting there. That is where you keep getting your point wrong.

[KraftySOT]

Mercules, on 04 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Cover... oddly enough... also negates Direct Fire. Now if you had no cover you would die to Gauss/PPC/Laser fire so much faster than you would die to LRMs.

Not at all. Hitreg is bad. Gauss charge up. Moving across an open field you have a much better change of dodging all of that or mitigating it, than popping out of cover and back in. Good players shoot you when you come to a stop to back up. The only reason youre popping in and out is LRMs, breaking locks. If I didnt have to do that, id rarely have an issue with those weapons because id be at a full move instead of ducking between buildings in Rivercity.

And still alot of the strategies for avoiding LRMs revolve around it still happening, just to someone that isnt you. Thats not only selfish, but a horrible unscientific way to look at a problem.

Youve been doing that for years.

Just because it isnt a problem for you, doesnt mean that it isnt a problem. Thats like saying burglary isnt a problem because youve neven been burglarized, and you have a security system and a gun. Its still a problem. Its still something to be corrected, even though youve corrected it for yourself.

Everyone cant just go out, grab ecm, play the way you play, etc etc. Nor should they.

The underlying issue, the reason that so much has been done to them over the years, is that yes, there is a problem there.

Find what that is, fix that.

Instead of bashing each others heads in screaming LRMS ARE OP! NO ITS BECAUSE YOU SUCK. NO LRMS ARE OP! NO ITS BECAUSE YOU SUCK.

If that was true. Thered be no magic jesus box. Russ wouldnt be lowering LRM damage to 1. These changes are there to mitigate the damage of an underlying system thats been around exactly as long as the complaints about it.

[Creovex]

Dont LRM me please, on 01 November 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

Dire wolfs Roam the landscape, slaughtering anything in front of them. I swear, I have never see a dire wolf do less than 350 damage and I have a dire wolf, and I get a 500-1200 damage a match with dual gauss and dual PPC overpowered bullcrap. Dire wolfs are always MVP. You peek out, lose your chest or lose your shoulder, crawl back down, and die. Or, if your traveling in a map like Caustic Valley, they peek out and shoot you at your spawn, and then you have no were to escape. They also have extreme autocannon builds, some being known to rip a heavy mech's armor CT within 2-4 seconds.

I have killed several Direwolves with lights... Direwolves SUCK when they aren't facing you directly....

Quote

Peter (Han Solo): We'll be safe enough once we make the jump to hyperspace. Besides, I know a few maneuvers. We'll lose'em.
[the Falcon starts listing lazily to the left]
Chris (Luke Skywalker): Uh, that was your maneuver? Moving slightly to the left?
Peter (Han Solo): Well, I mean we're not in the same place we were, huh? That ought to confuse'em.
Chris (Luke Skywalker): Yeah, but you hardly did anything. You just started listing lazily to the left. I'm pretty sure they can keep up.
Imperial Officer 1: Where did they go?
Imperial Officer 2: There they are! They're listing lazily to the left. Go left, left!
Imperial Officer 1: Boy, this guy knows some maneuvers.

- Works on Direwolves