75 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

HiasRGB, on 07 December 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

oh my god, pls not...

Everybody have different playstyles.I do much much better with a LRM rack then a SRM rack. SRMs simply does not hit and still broken for me

[Smokeyjedi]

2 LRM20's 4 MPL and std 320. with 8 tonnes of lrm ammo and a slew of DHS.......when they come for you and your tubes. the 4MPL show thier legs whats up. after 600+ armour is alot to work with.

[M0rpHeu5]

Try this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f6bad907e8db9d3

You can fight at all rangies

[Rihko]

Just my own two cents, but the AC20/3x SRM6/ML to fill it out Atlas build is one of my best brawlers; the real difference maker, though, is the engine. 300 STD is just too slow; I am at work and can't check at the moment, but move up to a 340 STD at least. A 350 if you have the room.

The bigger engine helps you get into brawl range quicker (less LRM harassment) and lets you twist faster (for those silly mediums and lights that think they can slow you down, and to better spread damage). The maneuverability is crucial.

[ShadowbaneX]

If you're going to go with SRM6s take the DDC. The AS7-S has srm4 quirks...so use srm4s.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 15 December 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[John80sk]

The quirk bonus is negligible. What's going to slow down your rate of fire is heat, not cooldown. Additionally the cooldown isn't going to help you that much since you should be twisted away from the target when you're not firing your AC20, which is on a 4 second cooldown.

Nothing wrong with 4's though, more damage focus and lower ammo consumption means it works better on smaller targets, but the lower alpha means it will be less effective against direwolves and king crabs. In organized drops the 4's could be seen as superior since you should be targeting legs more often than not, and 6's will more likely than not waste missiles on the thinner target.

Cathy, on 07 December 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

Reduce your srm24 to srm 16 add artemis increase your engine size with the weight saved srm4 and you can squeeze in AMS if you chose, I do, as it also works on all missiles, and fit 4 ml's this build needs a 340 standard gets you over 60kph with speed tweak and makes a surprising amount of difference in your mobility.

modules I think should be used are, radar dep, range for the srms, cooldown for the ac20, the others persona choice but of the rest I think target info and hill climb are the better ones

The reduced tubes cycle far faster and you can ripple fire or just slam the lot in though I find ripple fire is usually best, this gives much more consentrated fire than 4 srm6.

Some builds have been taking off the ml and being just srm6 and ac20 builds but this takes away its ability to zombie, though some will argue that once a atlas is in zombie mode its dead.

There are a lot of situations you need those arm lasers, because pilots will know how little you can depress and raise those torso mounts.

Best way to use this build is leading in a death ball of about 4 mechs so you need to be aware in PUGS of if your own team are following as much as where the enemy mechs are, doesn't matter what build your in if your isolated in an atlas your dead most of the time, so if you do get caught do not slam into reverse if there is a gap go forward, your still probably dead, but you'll be more effective than trying to reverse out, as timid always fails aggressive will sometimes net you kills and you might even survive.

Some of this advice is good, but not all of it. 2ML is pretty insignificant damage, and if you've positioned yourself where your torso weapons can't be of use then you've already lost. Chain firing in an Atlas is suicide, you never want to stare at a target in an Atlas. Even if you vastly outclass the other guy, you don't need to be taking any more torso damage than you need to. The ability to shoot and twist is literally your only advantage against other big assaults, wasting it is a huge mistake.

[Echidna]

Bit late to this thread. Anywho though, I've never really enjoyed min/maxing for very specific loadouts on any mech, and surprisingly I find that a very balanced build is wonderful on the AS7-S. My build is 4 ML, Gauss, and 3 SRM6, with DHS. I have a decent amount of spare room so I could probably put 4 SRM4, what with the quirks for it, but as a somewhat new build for me it's been working wonderfully. You can engage close, medium, and long range with impunity; though without any indirect fire you'll probably want to practice a bit with Gauss.

Artemis on SRMs could also be very helpful, but honestly I don't think it's needed if you'll be saving them primarily for close range. You can use Gauss reliably close range, at least until your side torso gets critted. That's the one issue I've had with my build, thus far.

[ShadowbaneX]

John80sk, on 18 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

The quirk bonus is negligible. What's going to slow down your rate of fire is heat, not cooldown. Additionally the cooldown isn't going to help you that much since you should be twisted away from the target when you're not firing your AC20, which is on a 4 second cooldown.

Quick bonus is significant. I've mentioned a few times above, with quirks, fast fire & tier 5 cool down module you can shotgun the 4 packs, managing 20-35 salvos depending on your heat when starting and if you're adding the AC/20 in. If your fire is unending it's the enemy that's going to be twisting to spread damage so you can fire with impunity. Granted, this is more of a 1 vs. 1 sort of tactic, but then twisting is less effective the more enemies you engage.

[John80sk]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 December 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Quick bonus is significant. I've mentioned a few times above, with quirks, fast fire & tier 5 cool down module you can shotgun the 4 packs, managing 20-35 salvos depending on your heat when starting and if you're adding the AC/20 in. If your fire is unending it's the enemy that's going to be twisting to spread damage so you can fire with impunity. Granted, this is more of a 1 vs. 1 sort of tactic, but then twisting is less effective the more enemies you engage.

Good luck trying to out-dps direwolves and king crabs then.

Math time:
SRM-4's
Bonus: 7.5+7.5+12+5=32%
Cooldown: 3-(0.32*3)=2.04
DPS: 8.6/2.04~4.2
SRM-6's
Bonus: 7.5+12+5=24.5%
Cooldown: 4-(0.245*4)=3.02
DPS: 12.9/3.02~4.3

SRM-6's win out in the DPS department, and the FLD department.

Like I said, 4's are better than 6's for focused damage, and saving tonnage. The 6's are better raw damage dealers. Meaning the smaller the intended target, the better the 4's are.

[pwnface]

I just read through the 3 pages of terribad builds on here an John80sk seems to be the only guy that knows what he is talking about (go figure the only person I recognize in higher elo bracket). If you want to play an Atlas you play it as a brawler, brawling is what it is good at and you could make an argument that there isn't anything more dangerous than an Atlas at 270-300m range.

For the AS7-S, please ignore everyone that says to put lasers or LRMs on your mech. Lasers and LRMs are a complete waste of heat and tonnage on this chassis, other chassis use those platforms much more effectively. If you want to play an Atlas effectively it takes experience (either your own or someone more experienced than you) to know when and where to push the enemy. Your goal is to get into close range without taking any damage.

Here is the build you are looking for:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6084e133edb0a41

One salvo will either kill or cripple anything anything lighter than a heavy. Three salvos on the same mech will pretty much kill anything on the field. Alpha, torso-twist, alpha, torso-twist. That is the RIGHT way to play an Atlas.

John80sk, on 19 December 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Like I said, 4's are better than 6's for focused damage, and saving tonnage. The 6's are better raw damage dealers. Meaning the smaller the intended target, the better the 4's are.

What the hell are you shooting at lights for when you can crack open Dires and Crabs right?

[Smokeyjedi]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

I just read through the 3 pages of terribad builds on here an John80sk seems to be the only guy that knows what he is talking about (go figure the only person I recognize in higher elo bracket). If you want to play an Atlas you play it as a brawler, brawling is what it is good at and you could make an argument that there isn't anything more dangerous than an Atlas at 270-300m range.

For the AS7-S, please ignore everyone that says to put lasers or LRMs on your mech. Lasers and LRMs are a complete waste of heat and tonnage on this chassis, other chassis use those platforms much more effectively. If you want to play an Atlas effectively it takes experience (either your own or someone more experienced than you) to know when and where to push the enemy. Your goal is to get into close range without taking any damage.

Here is the build you are looking for:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6084e133edb0a41

One salvo will either kill or cripple anything anything lighter than a heavy. Three salvos on the same mech will pretty much kill anything on the field. Alpha, torso-twist, alpha, torso-twist. That is the RIGHT way to play an Atlas.



What the hell are you shooting at lights for when you can crack open Dires and Crabs right?

If you are going to hold hands with your DDC lancemate or Hellbringer Lancemate this could work using someone elses ECM.......A big slow visable splat cat?? What would you do for the 450M a ERML has on you........or 700M+ that a ERLL has for range? thats a lot of unanswered pokes in the CT by the time they close the distance on you......oh wait, after they see this build i image they would stay you know 600M away where you are as scary as a fluffy bunny.

What If you are left behind? this build becomes dog food. Anyone stupid enough to decide to brawl with your face doesnt belong in a mech. What kind of team actually waits for the Atlas anyhow.......(must be nice)

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

snip

any tips or advice on how to get into position or where and when to push the enemy ?
i know its a complex combination of things but thats the part im still struggling with.. esp on the more open ranged maps and everyone trading peekaboos
i guess just practice and more practice ?

i love that feeling of just appearing out of nowhere on a enemy lance with your suggested build you can tell after feeling the first alpha panic kicks in

[John80sk]

GamerGirlGundam, on 19 December 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

any tips or advice on how to get into position or where and when to push the enemy ?
i know its a complex combination of things but thats the part im still struggling with.. esp on the more open ranged maps and everyone trading peekaboos
i guess just practice and more practice ?

i love that feeling of just appearing out of nowhere on a enemy lance with your suggested build you can tell after feeling the first alpha panic kicks in

This is a good question, because it's the hardest part about piloting an Atlas in non organized play. Pay attention to your surroundings, and learn the maps. The longer you can avoid being seen the better.

This may seem contradictory to the typical advice of staying with your team. It is not. I'm not talking about going on some wide flanking route, I'm talking about utilizing micro-terrain available on the route your team is taking. I will also state that you don't have to be hugging your teammates, just close enough to where they can shoot things that are shooting at you. In other words you want open sight lines with your teammates, and the opposite with your enemy.

The only big open map that I see as a problem is Alpine. Truth behind this one is if your team doesn't push the hill hard, you're probably screwed, and you might still be screwed if they do push the hill.

Now, if you successfully avoid being torn to shreds from afar, you still have to know when to push and when to wait. Patience is key in an Atlas, but so is decisiveness. Seismic sensor is IMO the greatest module ever for an Atlas (or any brawler for that matter). Knowing whether your pushing 2 or 12 makes a huge difference. Knowing the map means knowing the sight lines to the location you're pushing, and whether or not the bad guys your pushing can receive fire support.

[Void Angel]

Atlases ("atlai" is not a word) are all about positioning, timing, and using terrain. Don't take an LRM rack for "something to do," or put ER lasers on your AC/20 build for "balance." Whatever you're doing with that Atlas, you have to remember two things: it needs to focus on its job (because of how its hardpoints are clustered,) and it cannot outmaneuver most enemies. John up above me gives a pretty good explanation of what you need to do. The only thing I'd add is that overland travel efficiency is a skill. My Atlas is one of the slowest 'mechs on the battlefield, but I can consistently get ahead of at least some of similarly slow - or even faster- teammates. Pick your destination and use the most efficient route to get where you need to go - and try to keep moving at all times until you hit contact.

[ShadowbaneX]

John80sk, on 19 December 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Good luck trying to out-dps direwolves and king crabs then.

Math time:
SRM-4's
Bonus: 7.5+7.5+12+5=32%
Cooldown: 3-(0.32*3)=2.04
DPS: 8.6/2.04~4.2
SRM-6's
Bonus: 7.5+12+5=24.5%
Cooldown: 4-(0.245*4)=3.02
DPS: 12.9/3.02~4.3

SRM-6's win out in the DPS department, and the FLD department.

Like I said, 4's are better than 6's for focused damage, and saving tonnage. The 6's are better raw damage dealers. Meaning the smaller the intended target, the better the 4's are.

your math is correct, but really? 0.1 difference? And that's with rounding. With the actual math it's 0.06 dps difference. That's 1.5% difference. That's negligable. As for FLD, well, you yourself said that heat is the main factor and the 6s are going to generate a bit more heat, not much more, but if your .06 dps counts, then them more heat counts.

One of the things I like most is this: Cooldown: 3-(0.32*3)=2.04. This is a great number as it means no ghost heat while chain-firing, which means you can fire longer than link-fire.

[John80sk]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 December 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

your math is correct, but really? 0.1 difference? And that's with rounding. With the actual math it's 0.06 dps difference. That's 1.5% difference. That's negligable. As for FLD, well, you yourself said that heat is the main factor and the 6s are going to generate a bit more heat, not much more, but if your .06 dps counts, then them more heat counts.

One of the things I like most is this: Cooldown: 3-(0.32*3)=2.04. This is a great number as it means no ghost heat while chain-firing, which means you can fire longer than link-fire.

Wrong again.

SRM4 HPS: 3/2.04~1.47
SRM6 KPS: 4/3.02~1.32

And for christ's sake, stop chainfiring in your atlas.

[ShadowbaneX]

Actually, you're wrong too...you're forgetting ghost heat. Still, the numbers actually say that the SRM6 is more heat efficient...which is strange.

Still, I'm actually kinda surprised at those numbers. Well, one, the DPS is so close together. 0.06 dps difference? Really rather surprised at that.

FLD I might consider arguing since a 24 missile swarm is massive unless you're actually touching the enemy mech quite a few missiles are going to miss. Add to that the 4 tons saved for an heat sink, an extra ton of srm ammo & some armour so you just don't get legged.

[John80sk]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 December 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Actually, you're wrong too...you're forgetting ghost heat. Still, the numbers actually say that the SRM6 is more heat efficient...which is strange.

Still, I'm actually kinda surprised at those numbers. Well, one, the DPS is so close together. 0.06 dps difference? Really rather surprised at that.

I checked it with ghost heat as well, SRM6's are still better.

ShadowbaneX, on 19 December 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

FLD I might consider arguing since a 24 missile swarm is massive unless you're actually touching the enemy mech quite a few missiles are going to miss. Add to that the 4 tons saved for an heat sink, an extra ton of srm ammo & some armour so you just don't get legged.

So basically exactly what I've been saying this entire time. SRM4's focus damage better, SRM6's bring more raw damage.

[ShadowbaneX]

yeah, that's what I said in the 2nd sentence.

Actually, I think you said 6's were better overall, but I'm the game is loading after patching so I'm not about to go back and check. Regardless, I'll still run mine with 4s, sans artemis, and lasers. Cause I can do that and still have fun. Oh, and I'll continue to chain-fire them too.

[pwnface]

GamerGirlGundam, on 19 December 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

any tips or advice on how to get into position or where and when to push the enemy ?
i know its a complex combination of things but thats the part im still struggling with.. esp on the more open ranged maps and everyone trading peekaboos
i guess just practice and more practice ?

i love that feeling of just appearing out of nowhere on a enemy lance with your suggested build you can tell after feeling the first alpha panic kicks in

Running an effective brawl/push strategy requires some reliance on your team. Whether you are in an organized team on comms or just solo pugging. You can use chat to group with your other big slow mechs and use terrain to get as close as possible without taking fire. Obviously there are maps which don't provide much cover (alpine) and they are much harder to be successful in a slow brawling assault mech.

You should try to rely on your team to scout and provide information on the enemy position. If you can get within 300-400m of the enemy force without getting shot at, you are in a perfect position to push right into them with your team. Positioning correctly is key to success in an Atlas, closing the gap on the enemy without taking too much fire is not an easy task. If you are forced to make an extended approach (500-600m) make sure to turn your torso and let them shoot at your arms.

The Atlas has been the primary focus target in MWO for a long time, only recently replaced by the Dire. People WILL shoot at you first. The best way to deal with this is to not push alone! If you have a Dire or Atlas buddy or two most of the time the enemy will have a hard time focusing just one of you down first.