50 replies to this topic

[bobF]

PGI, LRMs don't need any more nerfs, in fact, they need buffs. Please look at them again, and consider the real culprit of missle spam: UAVs.

UAVs, especially when upgraded, provide a window of unmitigated missile spam while the opfor is standing behind cover, equipping Radar Dep, and even using ECM. Launching UAV is not some super skilled matter of positioning a light mech behind enemy lines, I've seen plenty of assaults and heavys use them to great effect on the front lines where the enemy is clustered.

Shooting them down is not always a simple counter, as frequently they're launched above the threshold of your arm/torso pitch, or during battle where you may not notice (too busy shooting/getting shot at). The vast majority of games i've seen UAV stay up the entire time, so dismissing the larger issue by saying "just shoot them down, ez" is disingenuous nonsense spouted by mouthbreathers.

LRM damage is not the problem, nor the firing arc, cooldown, time to target, or any of that. Indirect fire weapons thrive on the opportunities presented during combat that allow you to fire them without negative consequence. People landing NARC or using TAG, that I feel is skill. The game by default sharing everyone's targeting info is not skilled imo. Then, by extension, every mech able to launch super magic radar just compounds the problem. No wonder people think ECM is a great advantage, it severely curtails the opportunities for worry-free indirect fire.

If PGI wants to see lrms used 10% less, then 10% of the indirect fire opportunity should be taken away, not the weapon itself nerfed even more.

[Mcgral18]

Did you know the falloff damage for UAVs was broken?

I've shot them down at 1 KM with MPLs; they stop doing any damage before 500M, yet deal the required 10 damage for UAVs twice over their maximum range.


I've stopped using LRMs; they are just too terrible a weapon system.

[FupDup]

PGI/Russ is expecting a 10% damage nerf to cause players to use 10% fewer LRMs, but I suspect that such an assumption is faulty.

[bobF]

FupDup, on 03 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

PGI/Russ is expecting a 10% damage nerf to cause players to use 10% fewer LRMs, but I suspect that such an assumption is faulty.

Of course, because it does nothing to address the real problem. People will continue to use indirect fire, risk free, just with 10% less damage.

"Damn you PGI, because of these whiners it takes the lurm cloud a couple more seconds to kill that guy exposed out of cover/under the UAV/spotted by the ECM light. I guess I'll have to adapt." *begins pressing lurm hotkey even faster*

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 03 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

PGI/Russ is expecting a 10% damage nerf to cause players to use 10% fewer LRMs, but I suspect that such an assumption is faulty.

10% weaker will require more to make up for the damage downgrade. More missile in the air.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 November 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

10% weaker will require more to make up for the damage downgrade. More missile in the air.

Which is a part of why Russ' attempt is misguided.

On another note, it will also reduce the number of people who use LRMs at all by some amount, which can also throw off the data.

[Mechteric]

I find often Narcs are much more effective than UAVs at bringing the missile pain, mostly because it allows the team to focus on one target, where UAV is a turkey shoot and nobody joins same target usually.

[Satan n stuff]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 November 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

I find often Narcs are much more effective than UAVs at bringing the missile pain, mostly because it allows the team to focus on one target, where UAV is a turkey shoot and nobody joins same target usually.

Most reasonably skilled LRM users are smart enough to let the biggest boat pick a target and fire on that. If you don't see that happening often you can safely chalk it up to elo hell.

[Monkey Lover]

FupDup, on 03 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

PGI/Russ is expecting a 10% damage nerf to cause players to use 10% fewer LRMs, but I suspect that such an assumption is faulty.

Last lrm nerf made me double my lrms. This lrm nerf will cause me to stop using them. Kind of the same way with IS streaks.

[mogs01gt]

I will never understand why people complain about LRMs when the weapon itself has like 10 ways it can be countered. Hell LRM baiting is fairly easy to do as well. I had a match over the weekend where we baited most of our opponents ammo. Simply baited and then pushed. 12-2 I think win.

Monkey Lover, on 03 November 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Last lrm nerf made me double my lrms. This lrm nerf will cause me to stop using them. Kind of the same way with IS streaks.

exactly. All this will do is hurt the game at high ELO and make it a dull PP damage game. We already know which mechs wins that game play type..

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 November 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Mcgral18, on 03 November 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Did you know the falloff damage for UAVs was broken?

I've shot them down at 1 KM with MPLs; they stop doing any damage before 500M, yet deal the required 10 damage for UAVs twice over their maximum range.


I've stopped using LRMs; they are just too terrible a weapon system.

I've had issues with my PPCs going straight through them as well.

[Jack Avery]

Kain Thul, on 03 November 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

I've had issues with my PPCs going straight through them as well.

Nah, they aren't going straight through; you flat-out missed. The UAVs bob up and down just a little bit, which is just enough to make you miss completely if you aren't watching the range indicator. It is a bit frustrating, though.

[Shalune]

Mcgral18, on 03 November 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I've stopped using LRMs; they are just too terrible a weapon system.

[Iskareot]

bobF, on 03 November 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

PGI, LRMs don't need any more nerfs, in fact, they need buffs. Please look at them again, and consider the real culprit of missle spam: UAVs.

UAVs, especially when upgraded, provide a window of unmitigated missile spam while the opfor is standing behind cover, equipping Radar Dep, and even using ECM. Launching UAV is not some super skilled matter of positioning a light mech behind enemy lines, I've seen plenty of assaults and heavys use them to great effect on the front lines where the enemy is clustered.

Shooting them down is not always a simple counter, as frequently they're launched above the threshold of your arm/torso pitch, or during battle where you may not notice (too busy shooting/getting shot at). The vast majority of games i've seen UAV stay up the entire time, so dismissing the larger issue by saying "just shoot them down, ez" is disingenuous nonsense spouted by mouthbreathers.

LRM damage is not the problem, nor the firing arc, cooldown, time to target, or any of that. Indirect fire weapons thrive on the opportunities presented during combat that allow you to fire them without negative consequence. People landing NARC or using TAG, that I feel is skill. The game by default sharing everyone's targeting info is not skilled imo. Then, by extension, every mech able to launch super magic radar just compounds the problem. No wonder people think ECM is a great advantage, it severely curtails the opportunities for worry-free indirect fire.

If PGI wants to see lrms used 10% less, then 10% of the indirect fire opportunity should be taken away, not the weapon itself nerfed even more.

Buffs.... you must have not played this past weekend much. LOL.... hide hide hide... SPAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMM hide hide hide...SPPPAAAAAAMMMMM...

Things that LRMs make you do.

This weekend was horrid... people knew damn well the easy way to get points.... and it's with easy mode LRMs and spam.

FINE one on one LRMs one mech vs another ...fine. 6 boats vs one mech... just trying to move... Not fine. Stupid in fact there is that much imbalance in a drop. AMS.. meh, yeah we all use them... hide mod.. fine that too wont stop it alll.... the problem is TOO MANY per drop. Some how they need to adjust the effectiveness of them if there is a certain amount per drop.

i.e. if there is a combined 1000 LRMs that can be fired on one team and 400 on another... between them all the max damage possible is the same... say 500 damage. SOMETHING to make them the same but nerf the amount that can be fired or the damage they do... one or the other.

[Kain Demos]

Jack Avery, on 03 November 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Nah, they aren't going straight through; you flat-out missed. The UAVs bob up and down just a little bit, which is just enough to make you miss completely if you aren't watching the range indicator. It is a bit frustrating, though.

I'm talking about coming to a complete stop, holding down shift and aiming right at the center of the thing like I always do but then watching them pass right through. This is the first I've heard of them having a "bob" though and I think I have only been able to target them once or twice ever so usually I just line it up and shoot--only seem to have a problem with PPCs missing.

[Tarogato]

I posted a proposal about LRMs that would make them more versatile but also more difficult to use, I'm curious of some people's feedback if you have any thoughts.

http://mwomercs.com/...8-aimable-lrms/

[Bongo TauKat]

Iskareot, on 03 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Buffs.... you must have not played this past weekend much. LOL.... hide hide hide... SPAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMM hide hide hide...SPPPAAAAAAMMMMM...

Things that LRMs make you do.

This weekend was horrid... people knew damn well the easy way to get points.... and it's with easy mode LRMs and spam.

I found running my lights with lots of SSRM and SRM/ML fire did just as good of a job. Mix in ECM and the LRMs were just pretty lights in the sky.

[Telmasa]

I for one agree with the OP.


Consumable "perk" modules in general are overpowered.


Here, spend 40,000 cbills and gain a SPECTACULAR game advantage that appears simply on the press of a single button!


At least they let us shoot UAVs down, thus giving us *some* kind of counter to them, unlike artillery/air strike spam...though I think they should still let us be able to detect UAVs at a longer range, so long as they aren't inside an ECM bubble. Having to be 150m-or-so away from the UAV *and* able to bend over backwards to look at the thing, in order to detect and target it, is a little much.

Edited by Telmasa, 03 November 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Xetelian]

Played all weekend without using LRMs and still managed over 200 treats...personally I don't think LRMs need a nerf, they're just to easy to counter.

[SoHxPaladin]

Xetelian, on 03 November 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

Played all weekend without using LRMs and still managed over 200 treats...personally I don't think LRMs need a nerf, they're just to easy to counter.

by george someone that gets it that isnt an ubercomp player. mwo forum hell has frozen over