107 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

going to check this out right now.


EDIT>....

In my 3L I didn't see this at all.

Edited by nehebkau, 05 November 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Mechrophilia]

Lets be honest with ourselves, ECM has been grossly overpowered since its inception in MWO. Nowadays I pilot an ecm mech almost exclusively.This BAP buff makes things interesting. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

[Willard Phule]

Ok, those of you that play primarily in the Group Queue, I get your problem with this....really, I do.

But, if you don't spend any significant time in the Solo Queue, you simply won't understand this tweak.

In the Solo Queue, the rule has been "the team with the most, or most effective, ECM wins." By that, I mean the team with the ECM guys hanging out and getting as many people in their bubble as possible....not the noob ERLL/ERPPC ECM snipers. It has gotten so bad that if your team doesn't have ECM, it's not really worth trying all that hard.

You would think that this tweak to BAP would make ECM a thing of the past. Downside is, in the Solo Queue, noone uses active probes. They'd rather use the tonnage for DHS or ammo. Stupid, really. Especially if you're in a clan mech. 1 ton, 1 slot and you kill ECM.

Can't wait to see the BAP thing start to pick up in the solo queue.

[Simbacca]

The problem as I see it, combine this extreme range BAP with the seismic sensor module and LRM fire will become worse. While BAP does not increase the range of seismic sensor. The seismic method could be used to find the outer edge of the foe disposition, and allow said mech to stay safely hidden as it strips ECM cover. Meanwhile another mech that has LOS can spot for the LRM boats without the need of TAG.

[BINDLETORC]

I like seeing a bump to BAP but find it a bit overwhelming when you are in a light trying to cover assaults and heavies. There goes your ECM bonus. Like the OP mentioned, maybe 180 or 200m but 360m is harsh.

[Ironwithin]

Simbacca, on 05 November 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

The problem as I see it, combine this extreme range BAP with the seismic sensor module and LRM fire will become worse. While BAP does not increase the range of seismic sensor. The seismic method could be used to find the outer edge of the foe disposition, and allow said mech to stay safely hidden as it strips ECM cover. Meanwhile another mech that has LOS can spot for the LRM boats without the need of TAG.

Well that would be well executed tactics, wich pay off.
What's wrong with that ?

[senaiboy]

Simbacca, on 05 November 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

The problem as I see it, combine this extreme range BAP with the seismic sensor module and LRM fire will become worse. While BAP does not increase the range of seismic sensor. The seismic method could be used to find the outer edge of the foe disposition, and allow said mech to stay safely hidden as it strips ECM cover. Meanwhile another mech that has LOS can spot for the LRM boats without the need of TAG.

So that required coordination from 3 mechs to counter ECM, which is a 1.5 ton equipment. I don't see the problem. People should stop expecting too much from a 1.5 ton equipment - to put it into perspective, it is basically equivalent to AMS with 1 ton ammo.

If your problem is LRMs, then as I've said ECM is not the answer.

Edited by senaiboy, 05 November 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Simbacca]

senaiboy, on 05 November 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

So that required coordination from 3 mechs to counter ECM, which is a 1.5 ton equipment. I don't see the problem. People should stop expecting too much from a 1.5 ton equipment - to put it into perspective, it is basically equivalent to AMS with 1 ton ammo.

If your problem is LRMs, then as I've said ECM is not the answer.

The problem is magnified on smaller maps.

Conversely, the much larger BAP range also makes it difficult for an ECM equipped light to get close - undetected via sensor contact to deploy its UAV - depending on enemy force deposition - without being light up like a Christmas tree.

[Mitsuragi]

Here are a couple points on this change:

1) ECM can be used to position yourself on the map for a strategic advantage. TAG's effective range is 750 meters (clan) or less. This means anything between 750 -> 1200 (max LRM range?) is completely unlockable and will not be detected on the mini map. This allows units under ECM cover to reposition themselves on the map without fear of lock-on fire harassment.

2) Increasing "Active Probe" range to 350 meters means that an "AP" equipped mech may be in front of or behind the ECM mech and negate the effect of ECM. If the distance were any less then the "AP" equipped mech would have to engage the ECM mech, and the unit with it, directly. This is particularly important if the enemy's ECM is supporting from the rear of their formation and the friendly "AP" mech is also supporting as this places the ECM vs "AP" mechs quite a distance from each other.

3) ECM was never meant to counter brawling engagements. With a lesser range then Streak SRM's and LRM's cannot be used in a brawl without twice as many counter measures to attempt to cover the ECM range. Think of ECM as circle A and "AP" mechs as B and C. You can see how you have to overlap the entire ACTIVE battlefield with "AP" to catch the ECM mech and counter that advantage. As it stands now, "AP" has the larger range so ECM must avoid it actively or be countered.

[Morpheousz]

Willard Phule, on 05 November 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

You would think that this tweak to BAP would make ECM a thing of the past. Downside is, in the Solo Queue, noone uses active probes. They'd rather use the tonnage for DHS or ammo. Stupid, really. Especially if you're in a clan mech. 1 ton, 1 slot and you kill ECM.

Can't wait to see the BAP thing start to pick up in the solo queue.

That's the thing, it has picked up, there are now several people on each side who have BAP, which makes any ecm completely useless.

An example, team A is on one side of a large hill, team B on the other. One or more mechs with BAP on team A, team B has ECM. The ECM has to back up over 500m just for it to not be countered, and since it only extends 180m... well, why bother??

Been in countless matches where it becomes LRMgedddon because 1 or more mechs on a side have BAP, often on a light, and it runs around within 400m of a group completely countering any ECM that group might have, while LRMs rain down from the heavens.

I get that before BAP was useless before, and I agreed, its this 400-500m range that I disagree with.

[Mitsuragi]

Morpheousz, on 05 November 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I get that before BAP was useless before, and I agreed, its this 400-500m range that I disagree with.

1) 360 is not 400 let alone 500. Before you say it doesn't make a difference, 140 (500 - 360) is almost the entire range BAP used to work at.

2) carry AMS, it stops LRMs and they just doubled IS ammo.

3) kill that light mech running around carefree through your ranks
- carry Streak SRMs; they get the job done
- pilot a light and run interference against this exact thing
- disengage from the fight and prioritize your target

4) take cover from LRMs. If you put mountains, overpasses, terrain between you and the missile then they're useless.

5) flank the LRM boats and blow them up. I mean, under 180 they can't hit you anyways... unless their clan, in which case they'll just annoy you with shake and machine gun equivalent damage.

[Mad Ox]

Sure its an over buff to try removing some from ecm all the time. IN a patch or two they will settle it out.

[Koniving]

Foxfire, on 04 November 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

To avoid actually addressing ECM.

This, essentially.

[JC Daxion]

BINDLETORC, on 05 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I like seeing a bump to BAP but find it a bit overwhelming when you are in a light trying to cover assaults and heavies. There goes your ECM bonus. Like the OP mentioned, maybe 180 or 200m but 360m is harsh.

You know there are tons of lights that don't have ECM.. Only one varriant has them, which makes them at a extreme advantage over everyone else.. there is a reason why you don't see the non ECM lights outside of grinding because they get such a huge advantage. I often find many of my favorite variants don't have ECM. It will be nice to see if this levels the playing field a bit and makes other lights worth playing over the ECM god mode...

Outside of that, Radar Dep, and a bunch of the new in your face brawlers and good game play can take out LRM heavy teams.. Just the other night, i was playing on a team (granted i was in a raven 3L, but honestly the ECM wasn't the thing as i was behind, and they never would of saw me anyway,.. Heck at this point ECM was a hinderance, as they would be getting my "low signal" verse with out if i had been in say the 2X. My raven is built as a short ranged brawler so it took no time at all to take down a couple assaults blasting them at point blank from behind, while getting some LRM rain, and a stormcrow up front keeping them from turning.) Sure this doesn't always work, and does need a bit of team work.. But that is the game.

Personally id rather try to avoid LRM rain, than a good Gauss sniper any day..

[GrizzlyViking]

I like the change and think it makes sense. ECM is not for brawling as others have stated. ECM is for recon and team support.

[keith]

ecm should be used more to sneak at longer ranges. once your within 300ish something like bap should pick up mechs. at that point there is a high chance u know the enemy team is there. plus most of us know that whole ecm bubble thing is meh. it will not stop ppl from knowing which mechs are hurt. all this does is have the possiblity of having lock on weps in higher lvl play

[Simbacca]

keith, on 05 November 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

ecm should be used more to sneak at longer ranges. once your within 300ish something like bap should pick up mechs. at that point there is a high chance u know the enemy team is there. plus most of us know that whole ecm bubble thing is meh. it will not stop ppl from knowing which mechs are hurt. all this does is have the possiblity of having lock on weps in higher lvl play

However, this may just encourage more ECM based snipers (Spider-5D, Raven-3L, Cicada-3M) when said mech is needed for close support for dealing with foe lights running wild amongst the main body.

[mailin]

Agree that ECM is for recon, but most maps are too small to allow such a huge advantage to BAP. They should simply make the range the same as for ECM.

[Uncleclint]

IF the active probes range wasn´t set to 360m or wherever it is at the moment, THEN good old Paul wouldn´t have something to nerf for the next few patches.

Get the idea?

[Widowmaker1981]

BAP/CAP needed a buff, 180m was too small, but 350 is too much imo.. id say sweet spot at about 250 - 275