23 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

Bug Fixes

- Fixed an issue where latency sometimes causes missile lock to visually complete before being properly locked.
- The 'Tag Damage' reward is now applied only to LRMs instead of all weapons.
- The 'Flanking' reward will no longer be rewarded to damage done with LRMs.
- The 'Killing Blow' reward will now always rewards 30 XP.
- The 'Kill Assist' reward will now always rewards 30 XP.
- The 'Narc Kill' reward now only applies when a kill is done with LRMs instead of any weapon.
- The 'Tag Kill' reward now only applies when a kill is done with LRMs instead of any weapon.
- Reduce the amount of memory the game would use.

No more tag, narc, and LRM spam! and proper rewards for assists!

Edited by Brody319, 04 November 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[topgun505]

No LRM spam? You're getting that from above? I think you're being overly optimistic.

[Brody319]

topgun505, on 04 November 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

No LRM spam? You're getting that from above? I think you're being overly optimistic.

well less narc and tag. which means less lrms

[Scratx]

And removing the flanking award for LRMs does get rid of one of the reasons why people were cramming in LRMs on the unlikeliest mechs... farming those c-bills.

[Xtrekker]

And more light shed on how broken the rewards system was once all the yay-sayers realize their exploit crutches have been removed. I also predict more "buff rewards" threads from said former exploiters.

[Elizander]

To be honest when piloting my LRMhawk heavily this weekend I only got maybe 1 in 10 games where Narc mattered (the guy with Narc was good enough to plant it on the enemy assaults early in the game).

Edited by Elizander, 04 November 2014 - 12:00 PM.

[Simbacca]

However, the huge increase to BAP counter-ECM range to 360m could actually make LRM spam worse. I can see increasing the range to 180m (same range as counter-mode for ECM mech), but not 360m...........

[kapusta11]

[SweetJackal]

Xtrekker, on 04 November 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

And more light shed on how broken the rewards system was once all the yay-sayers realize their exploit crutches have been removed. I also predict more "buff rewards" threads from said former exploiters.

The problem I have with the changes to the reward system is that TAG and NARC act as counters to ECM in shutting down it's information denial. Which means that damage and kills on targets hit with TAG or NARC should provide rewards for more than LRMs.

Using TAG and NARC to farm C-Bills is a problem and something I will admit I was doing as well. The problem is using your own direct fire weapons to earn TAG/NARC damage/kill rewards, getting such rewards from your team using direct fire weapons isn't an issue as it is promoting proper team use by placing a huge "Shoot Me" signs on targets under ECM and exposing enemy positions (which allows for more tactical movement.)

NARCing an enemy light can practically remove that light from the fight as they have the strengths in their mobility lessened by having their exact position appear right on the map. No matter what approach the light tries to use to get an angle on the team the team now has far more awareness and can line up shots and firelines before the light even comes into LoS.

Information warfare is powerful and limiting the rewards to only LRM damage and kills means making a statement as to that it is only supposed to assist LRMs. I shouldn't get rewards for the damage I do to a mech with my own TAG or my killing blows on targets I NARC'd but if a teammate is assisting the rest of the team providing vital information then they should be rewarded for using these information tools for the damage and kills the rest of the team gets.

Edited by SuckyJack, 04 November 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Scyther]

I confess that my eyes popped a little when I saw that BAP jump from 150m counter-ECM to 360. I have felt that BAP was probably a little under-powered for the weight when looking at it in the past, but more than doubling it? Hard to tell how a jump that big will affect game balance til we try it out I guess.

[AlmightyAeng]

Xtrekker, on 04 November 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

And more light shed on how broken the rewards system was once all the yay-sayers realize their exploit crutches have been removed. I also predict more "buff rewards" threads from said former exploiters.

Pffft. Haven't been 'exploiting' as it was...and I was asking for mildly greater rewards

[Joseph Mallan]

No no. Not all the yeah sayers. I still made over 100K a piece in 3 losses, and 50K in a totally craptastic performance, so far as I can see, still working as intended.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 November 2014 - 04:09 PM.

[Belorion]

Shouldn't Narc and Tag kills be with all Missiles? Pretty sure they are supposed to assist all missile types.

[AlmightyAeng]

Belorion, on 04 November 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Shouldn't Narc and Tag kills be with all Missiles? Pretty sure they are supposed to assist all missile types.

Well, all LRM's and all Streaks.

Regular SRMs? Not so much.

[Lily from animove]

sounds good, reasonable changes. the only one left is "face flanking"

[Kalimaster]

If you think that this will remove LRMs or lessen them from the game, think again. Each weapon has it's effects. Learn to use AMS if you want to counter LRMs, or get hammered by them.

[Otto Cannon]

MadBadger, on 04 November 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

I confess that my eyes popped a little when I saw that BAP jump from 150m counter-ECM to 360. I have felt that BAP was probably a little under-powered for the weight when looking at it in the past, but more than doubling it? Hard to tell how a jump that big will affect game balance til we try it out I guess.

Yup. Seems like it might be a good time to blow the dust off some streak builds and go light hunting.

[Xtrekker]

SuckyJack, on 04 November 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

The problem I have with the changes to the reward system is that TAG and NARC act as counters to ECM in shutting down it's information denial. Which means that damage and kills on targets hit with TAG or NARC should provide rewards for more than LRMs.

Using TAG and NARC to farm C-Bills is a problem and something I will admit I was doing as well. The problem is using your own direct fire weapons to earn TAG/NARC damage/kill rewards, getting such rewards from your team using direct fire weapons isn't an issue as it is promoting proper team use by placing a huge "Shoot Me" signs on targets under ECM and exposing enemy positions (which allows for more tactical movement.)

NARCing an enemy light can practically remove that light from the fight as they have the strengths in their mobility lessened by having their exact position appear right on the map. No matter what approach the light tries to use to get an angle on the team the team now has far more awareness and can line up shots and firelines before the light even comes into LoS.

Information warfare is powerful and limiting the rewards to only LRM damage and kills means making a statement as to that it is only supposed to assist LRMs. I shouldn't get rewards for the damage I do to a mech with my own TAG or my killing blows on targets I NARC'd but if a teammate is assisting the rest of the team providing vital information then they should be rewarded for using these information tools for the damage and kills the rest of the team gets.

This is probably the only well-thought-out argument for greater TAG rewards that I've read. There is the information provided to your team. Just curious though...doesn't targeting with TAG open the spotting bonus?

On an unrelated note, I can't seem to figure TAG out...hardly ever ran it before, but ran it recently because it seemed to double my earnings somehow. I still have a hell of a time targeting a mech that doesn't want to be targeted or doesn't want his friends targeted, even running both TAG and BAP. I know there's some mechanic here that I've missed.

[Belorion]

Ghost Badger, on 04 November 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Well, all LRM's and all Streaks.

Regular SRMs? Not so much.

From Sarna:

Quote

The Narc Missile Beacon is a missile homing utility that can be planted on enemy targets, causing friendly SRMs and LRM missiles (even those that do not traditionally have homing capabilities) to lock on to them.

I know MWO isn't TT, but I thought it helped with SRMs in MWO as well.

Edited by Belorion, 04 November 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[SweetJackal]

Xtrekker, on 04 November 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

This is probably the only well-thought-out argument for greater TAG rewards that I've read. There is the information provided to your team. Just curious though...doesn't targeting with TAG open the spotting bonus?

On an unrelated note, I can't seem to figure TAG out...hardly ever ran it before, but ran it recently because it seemed to double my earnings somehow. I still have a hell of a time targeting a mech that doesn't want to be targeted or doesn't want his friends targeted, even running both TAG and BAP. I know there's some mechanic here that I've missed.

The spotting assist is open to anyone and really finicky. It's about having LoS to the mech you have targeted that an LRM user is locked onto and is hitting with LRMs. There is more to it but is seems really inconsistent, not ticking when it should and ticking off when it without a doubt shouldn't.

TAG is a different beast. The effect it puts on an enemy mech negates the benefit of ECM on that mech as well as enhances the lock on time and effectiveness of LRMs used against that target. There are also rewards tied to TAG usage as of late, though these have recently been changes to only give bonuses on LRMs instead of any damage dealt. For these reasons TAG'd targets often become the focus for your team and attract more of your teammates.

The importance of NARC is that it is a front loaded information tool rather than a duration information tool. With TAG you need to keep it on target the entire time for it to be effective. NARC is like an AC hit that instead of damage gives the position and facing of the enemy as well as allows targeting and locks on that target without anyone having any LoS. Information on the exact positioning and facing of the enemy is important to me when I am in something more mobile as it gives me the nearest angle I can approach that enemy and not be under fire.

Information lets you further exploit poor positioning.

Edit: You might have meant the Scouting rewards. Sad part is that is only rewarded to the first mech that targets said enemy. It's 2000 cbills that can only be earned 12 times across the entire friendly team.

Edited by SuckyJack, 05 November 2014 - 12:04 AM.