147 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Burktross, on 06 November 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

My mind is still boggled by my needing of AMS when behind heavy cover.

What about your teammates who still have not reached cover yet? AMS helps everyone, not just you.

Ascaloth, on 06 November 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Saying "I'm too good to be hit by LRMs" is just selfishness. There's always someone in a bad position or in a mech too slow and too far from any useful cover to reach it before taking a crapload of missiles. Not counting new players that get smashed by lurms everyday...

So if you CAN spare a few tons to bring an AMS, do it! Every single missile destroyed that otherwise would hit an ally is a NOPE you scrub on the enemies' face.

Exactly. Especially in River City/Night, being escorted by AMS mechs will do your slow Assault Lance helluva lot of good. Too often they get Lurmed to scrap before reaching safety.

Belorion, on 06 November 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

I often am the meet shield... and still don't run AMS.

You can be even better meatshield for your team if you run AMS.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 November 2014 - 08:07 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

InspectorG, on 06 November 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

So with 3AMS and an ECM...

Does this make the Kitfox the Cleric of MWO?

More the Shaman.....serious support, maybe if its EQ2, the Defiler, heavy on the wards, which prevent damage.

[El Bandito]

InspectorG, on 06 November 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

So with 3AMS and an ECM...

Does this make the Kitfox the Cleric of MWO?

I like to think of the Kit Fox as this.



Dunno if many people will get the reference.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 November 2014 - 02:35 AM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I'm too selfish a woman to want to help...lol my Radar Depravation module works just fine for me

[TimePeriod]

THERE!

I equipped AMS, can I have some peace now?

Sheeeze!

[El Bandito]

TimePeriod, on 08 November 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

THERE!

I equipped AMS, can I have some peace now?

Sheeeze!

Well done. Now go out there and be credit to team.

[Zerberus]

Some things that become very obvious to people reading this thread:

Most people that whine about LRMs absolutely refuse to do anything even remotely intelligent to counter them. For the record: incessantly screaming for nerfs while absolutely refusing to even attempt to adapt is NOT the hallmark if an intelligent player, but rather that of someone born to be fragbait and nothing else.

Many of those same people need a job in politics, badly, becasue their forked tongues are very obvious. In one post they scream for nerfs because "They`re op in every single match". Yet when AMS or other counters are suggested, they suddenly go up 1000 Elo points to a tier of play where LRMs are rarely a problem, making AMS and co. "Situational at best, if the enemy team doesnt have LRMs it`S a waste of tonnage."

These people are not only refusing to adapt (and btw constant development and adaptation is one of the hallmarks of LIFE, even "non-intelligent" plants are capable of it and do so 24/7/365), but are also twisting their background on a constant basis to fit their argument, regardless of any logical flaws od dissociations from reality that it may require to achieve that.

In other words, this thread is business as usual. The LRM whiners are still generally just substandard players that refuse to llearn and adapt and still have no actual competitive mindset beyond "As long as I win, everything must be fine", and like politicians have absolutely no issues presenting half-truths or outright lies as facts as long as it supports their personal agenda.

And on the other side you have people that actually use the systems in place, or have the (tbh very low amount of) skill necessary to neuter LRMs without them. These people are attempting to share knowledge and help increase the skill leven of their comrades, like proper competitors /warriors. The "If someone doesn`t learn by themself, I won`t help them" mindset that numerous bads display here is EXACTLY the reason why you keep getting "put in with the scrubs", because you absolutely refuse to help your team win the fight.

You whiners should really be glad it`s a game. In a real war, you`d have all died quickly and horribly because you`d just stand still in an ambush and wait for the enemy`s weapons to be nerfed instead of actually thinking (or falling back on your training) and trying to find decent cover or wearing a ******* helmet and Body armor. Or complaining to command that the enemy is using artillery, while simultaneously sticking your head out as far as you can so that every spottter and sniper in a 2 mile vicinity can see the stark white "ace of Spades" helmet that you painted yourself because "Camo is for losers". And half your team would die with you, becasue you "refuse to help people that don`t learn by themselves", and therefore don`t even have the intelligence to yell "Ambush!!" when teh first rounds of 7.62 whizz by your ear. You essentially just leave them to die, and then complain about half your team getting taken out by an abmush that you yourself were the first to notice and did nothing to communicate to your unit.

In a real war, I`d very happily shoot you myself, because you are NOT a contributing factor to the unit or the mission. In fact, your actions border on treason, and we shoot traitors on the battlefield without trial, leaving me with absolutely no remorse about ending your pitiful excuse for an existence and merely a slightly harder fight ahead because my unit is now down a man. But contrary to what the scrubs might think, that is generally a non issue, because intelligent warriors know how to improvise, adapt, and overcome, as opposed to pout, whine, and complain about percieved unfairness instead.

I mean, it`s been obvious for decades that most gamers don`t have a clue about real war, and with society pussyfooting around any and every topic having to do with personal resposibility and giving out Medals of Honor just for participation, it`s not surprising that people have completely lost any drive for self improvement or the aquisitioon of actual skills (which is also a large part of why so many people are forced to work Lo-Wage jobs, because they`re not qualified to do anything but flip burgers in the first place because they never tried to lean how). "Why should I actually learn how to do something if I can campaign for my ineptness being the gold standard, thereby lowering the bar so that I can reach it, too. "

Seriously, Is the whole world turning into Dumbfuckistan, or only the english speaking portion of it?

PS: I can only hope that these ego-driven "I couldn`t care less about the team, it`s all about me" players get so thoroughly stomped in the initial phases of CW that they either return to the solo PUG queue for good or finally wake up and try to get better. We don`t need whining *insert random female genitalia reference of your choosing* on my team, OR as opponents, we need actual teammates and actual opposition for CW to work properly. It`s not particularly challenging to take a battlemech and stomp through a horde of uneducated, unskilled farmers... Though it IS admittedly a wonderful experience to be dealt a horde of solahma troops and still take out "first line" units with superior tactics and communication. But the way it stands (assuming that the whiners are 50% of the playerbase, which I truly hope is not the case), CW will in fact more often than not depict trained units (or even just 3-4 elite warriors with a few recruits in tow) absolutely annihilating women, children, and retirees, becasue all the "mechwarriors" are too busy trying to play solaris instead of understanding the difference between a theattre of war and a roman coliseum

Maybe I should start a thread along the lines of "Tactics; What you think you know, and why you`re dead ( wrong)"..... then again, most of the replies will just be more forked-tongue whining, diluiting teh actual message to a trickle, as is the case here... so what`s the point? The people that need the knowledge offered don`t care /refuse to even consider it, and the others already know it`s true, anyway.....

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[RalphVargr]

Back on topic: I just bought three Kit Foxes, once I discovered I could use the Kit Fox-C ECM and AMS omnipod. I thought I wouldn't be buying another mech, but the opportunity of carrying both ECM and dual AMS (you can mount 3) allows me to play a support role for my TS group, without being accused of being an LRM whale.

[El Bandito]

RalphVargr, on 08 November 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Back on topic: I just bought three Kit Foxes, once I discovered I could use the Kit Fox-C ECM and AMS omnipod. I thought I wouldn't be buying another mech, but the opportunity of carrying both ECM and dual AMS (you can mount 3) allows me to play a support role for my TS group, without being accused of being an LRM whale.

One day, I shall buy and experience the mad joy of swatting endless Lurms from the sky as the Triple AMS Kittie. Until then, my FS9-S and STK-5S will have to do.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 November 2014 - 09:54 PM.

[Sovery_Simple]

El Bandito, on 10 November 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

One day, I shall buy and experience the mad joy of swatting endless Lurms from the sky as the Triple AMS Kittie. Until then, my FS9-S and STK-5S will have to do.

It feels like a light drizzle. (AMS Range + Fire Rate), you can easily burn 4000-6000 AMS ammo.

Downside: You're limited to 3 ER-Mlas as your weapons if you take all of your JJ's and ECM with said 3 AMS and 3 tons AMS ammo. You have 3 heatsinks but you still feel like a burning sun after that heat ramp on ER-Mlas. You also feel like a light drizzle as a result of carrying a 21 pt alpha. Feel free to trade a heatsink for 2 MG's + 1/2 ton of ammo though, it helps when the enemy is opened up and you're running hot, but still want to contribute. Personally under 4 heatsinks on a kitfox makes the cooldown rate unbearably slow, but, YMMV.

[Chagatay]

^ Really wish they would remove the heat penalty on less than 10 heatsink engine configurations.

But on point, AMS is really good and even has a switch for on and off. IS AMS also had its ammo bumped to 2k rounds per ton so you can squeeze in a single system for a mere 1T or a dual systems for 2T just like those fancy clanners. While I don't always AMS, I strongly suggest it for anything bigger than 55T or slower than 100kph for IS. I also recommend for clan mechs when hardpoints allow (not always ideal so you may need to do without it).

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Zerberus, on 08 November 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Some things that become very obvious to people reading this thread: Most people that whine about LRMs absolutely refuse to do anything even remotely intelligent to counter them. *** insert wall of text whining about other people whining*** In a real war, you`d have all died quickly and horribly because you`d just stand still in an ambush and wait for the enemy`s * more wall of text*.....

If one more freaking idiot compares RL war to a damn video game people play for fun i will reach through the internet to ***** slap you! Seriously though how many people sign up to go to war to have fun? What? you mean not a single person with a remotely intact psychological well-being would do that? Well then that seems like a pretty silly thing to compare this game to!

The very concept of trying to compare a real world situation- in which none of attributes that shape and define the reality are subject to being changed by humans and no one participates in as a fun hobby or past time- to a virtual world- defined and created for the sole purpose of fun competition and enjoyment for those participating in which EVERY SINGLE FACTOR from weapon damage to gravity to the very ground one stands on is wholly shaped and decided upon by a single development team that actively seeks to make the game as enjoyable as possible to as many people as possible so they get more money- requires some frighteningly faulty logic in my opinion.

[Lykaon]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 04 November 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

I am weary of dedicating tonnage that has a chance to be up to 100% useless if rng makes your enemy team not have lrms, and isn't really that great unless in bulk and also still runs out of ammo much quicker than the lrmers.

You may want to take a survey of the number of pug queue matches you see with no LRMs.I would say it would be somewhere near the 0% mark.

With the advent of half tonnage clan launchers and enhanced Active Probe counter ECM capabilities I would bank on more LRMs over fewer LRMs even the group queue should see an upswing in LRM use due to BAP changes.

As for not being "that great unless used in bulk" isn't that what this post is about? recommending as many players as possible mount an AMS.That by deffinition is encouraging "bulk" .

Running out of ammo faster than the Lurmers? Do you know what really worries Lurmers?

Running out of range! One important use of massed AMS is to allow a group of mechs to traverse the distance between them and an LRM carrier all the while not sustaining crippling damage.Once you get up in the face of an LRM carrier you will find the clan mechs pack a lot less punch up close and I.S. LRM mechs are reduced to some light point defense weapons in most cases (I do have an Atlas that packs 40 tubes plus and AC20 and some medium lasers so um...pay attention)

Essentially if you sit there under fire long enough to run out of AMS ammo (at 2000 rnds per ton) you are doing it wrong.

[The Boz]

Every time I went up against a 6+ group, they were LRM'd up the gills, so no, saying "groups don't use them" is not correct at all. And saying "high Elo groups don't use them" is not only equally wrong, but also an underhanded silencing tactic.

[Mavairo]

Threads like this tell you EXACTLY who would be the keyboard facerolling, solo PVE players in any mmo.
To them things like damage reduction for allies is useless, heals spread around unnecessary, and the thought of doing anything more than autoatttacking and pressing a couple of abilities, is completely foreign.

To the PVP and Elite Raid Players, on the other hand....there's the immediate understanding that keeping allies alive longer, leads to greater lethality as a whole, because the other team will be doing less damage over a period of time, with whatever the dmg red works vs.

I swear if PGI put in the game some kind of hardpoint, and system that gave team mates (not yourself, just allies) a bonus to damage reduction of 5% these people wouldn't put it on. Because it costs a ton and a half of their 'leet build' that is so poor they couldn't find a ton and a half, and "it's only 5 %!".

Edited by Mavairo, 11 November 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Nah, I'll pass. I can put the tonnage to better use normally. Maybe I'll equip AMS in an Assault, but I'll take my chances on pretty much anything lighter.

[Lily from animove]

Mavairo, on 11 November 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Threads like this tell you EXACTLY who would be the keyboard facerolling, solo PVE players in any mmo.
To them things like damage reduction for allies is useless, heals spread around unnecessary, and the thought of doing anything more than autoatttacking and pressing a couple of abilities, is completely foreign.

To the PVP and Elite Raid Players, on the other hand....there's the immediate understanding that keeping allies alive longer, leads to greater lethality as a whole, because the other team will be doing less damage over a period of time, with whatever the dmg red works vs.

I swear if PGI put in the game some kind of hardpoint, and system that gave team mates (not yourself, just allies) a bonus to damage reduction of 5% these people wouldn't put it on. Because it costs a ton and a half of their 'leet build' that is so poor they couldn't find a ton and a half, and "it's only 5 %!".

the issue is, most of the big and good group players know how to prevent lrm deathrains and so have that tonnage feww for better stuff. Because your MMO relation would be something like: 5% less dmg to the grp or 10% more damage done by yourself.

and then AMS becomes situational, while a general 5% buff would mena for all other weapons as well. would it only be 5% on lrm damage, I would not use it either.


But what people seem not to consider, ams is also vs narc and srms. not only lrms.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 November 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I love creating what's in my opinion, perfect builds. Builds that utilize every capability available like BAP, AMS, ECM, JJ's, sometimes Artemis and multiple effective ranges. The stock Loki is a good example. That said, I do better damage/kills/component damage with a specialized mech, a good example of this is the Locust 3M w/ the biggest engine, 5 S PLs and four DHS. I also have a build for the 3M that switches to an XL 170, BAP w/ target info mod, AMS x2 w 1 ton ammo, SL x2, S PL x2, and a medium laser in the CT. Also slightly reduced armor, mostly from head, and have to take off the FF armor.

I really really wish I could save builds and switch w/ a click, regardless of how expensive that sounds. Since I PUG teams are rarely coordinated enough to take much advantage of electronic/equipment warfare.. it's best for me to stay in the straight damage dealer builds. We will see if that changes w/ community warfare.

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 11 November 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[Mavairo]

Lily from animove, on 11 November 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

the issue is, most of the big and good group players know how to prevent lrm deathrains and so have that tonnage feww for better stuff. Because your MMO relation would be something like: 5% less dmg to the grp or 10% more damage done by yourself.

and then AMS becomes situational, while a general 5% buff would mena for all other weapons as well. would it only be 5% on lrm damage, I would not use it either.


But what people seem not to consider, ams is also vs narc and srms. not only lrms.

AMS also works on Streaks.
And against LRM 30..it's still taking 5 to 6 missiles a pop out of the sky... per AMS.... that's without any modules too.

Me I'd rather have it, on as many people as I can get it on with, to make closing all the easier. AMS also opens up more avenues you can move through more safely going cover to cover in a forward advance.

The real problem of course is the underhive plays with steering wheels and refuses to learn how to actually counter an enemy, or adapt their strats.

[Lily from animove]

Mavairo, on 11 November 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

AMS also works on Streaks.
And against LRM 30..it's still taking 5 to 6 missiles a pop out of the sky... per AMS.... that's without any modules too.

Me I'd rather have it, on as many people as I can get it on with, to make closing all the easier. AMS also opens up more avenues you can move through more safely going cover to cover in a forward advance.

The real problem of course is the underhive plays with steering wheels and refuses to learn how to actually counter an enemy, or adapt their strats.

ssrms are smr,s just a special sucategory of them.
Most maps are making countering LRM's too easy if you already have ecm, so that you can approach nearly all the time with too much safety. Especially in pemade roups knowing the maps. In former mechwarrior games, having some ams was always a good idea. because areas were wide and open and finding a hill big enough to hide was not even with the direct fire lrms possible in most cases.