227 replies to this topic

[Satan n stuff]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Because these are the players who take a risk, who are in the front who make the game happen.Sad part about this game is camping is rewarded. Hiding behind your meat shield and living to the end.In the end they still end up dieing but somehow feel they did good because the lived the longest?

Makes me think of cda mech with 2 xr lasers. Never helping the team living to the end of the match making us all wait for the other team to kill them. In the end getting 200 damage for 14 minutes of fighting.

If their scores are that low it's not the mech's fault, you can deal more total damage than an average assault with that.

[DaZur]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Because these are the players who take a risk, who are in the front who make the game happen.Sad part about this game is camping is rewarded. Hiding behind your meat shield and living to the end.In the end they still end up dieing but somehow feel they did good because the lived the longest?

Makes me think of cda mech with 2 xr lasers. Never helping the team living to the end of the match making us all wait for the other team to kill them. In the end getting 200 damage for 14 minutes of fighting.

Going "Leroy Jenkins" into the fray in order to "do something" is not necessarily by definition the epitome of a "good player".

There's a time to play peek-a-boo and there's a time to push... Knowing when both are appropriate and knowing when to do one or the other is a signature of a "good player".

[mogs01gt]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

You mean when Im with the assaults supporting them and the rest our team runs across the map while we are typing the location of our opponents and yet they continue chancing that one lance that was left out in the open???.......yeah....

[Jetfire]

Sprouticus, on 05 November 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Agree 100%. Many of my deaths in PUG play are due to my own mistakes (or sheer numbers if I am one of the last ones alive.)

But a not insignificant % of my deaths are due to teams making basic mistakes. (chasing squirrels, abandoning fatties, being passive and not moving, etc). I fully admit that may be my Elo, which again reflects upon me. But dont confuse bad aim with bad tactical ability.

Maybe next time that guy is ranting you might want to step off your high horse and look at what really happened. Did you (or others) chase the squirrel. Did you/the team sit in one spot and get picked off? Did you/the team not push when the other team was LRM heavy?

When you make some tactical mistakes, the feedback is immediate. If I go around a corner blindly and without caution and end up getting hit by 5 mechs, that teaches me something.

When you make others, the feedback is simply losing the match and it is MUCH harder to see what you personally did wrong.

Honest self evaluation is key to improvement. Is the guy ranting on comms being rational? Probably not. But he may still have a point.

My horse isn't very high, I play well and when I get upset I rarely if ever rant in chat... It does however bother me to see terrible play happen consistently. The ranter's aren't right to rant, but the players who play very badly and often deliberately to boost their own KDR's are also wrong and neither makes me enjoy my time in game.

I don't make the kinds of mistakes that irritate me with any frequency that could be called a pattern. Not that my play is always perfect, but it usually isn't completely terrible. Dual gauss to the face happens though, as does LRM 1000 rain of death.

I sympathize with the rants, but I do not condone them. It just makes the game less appealing to new players. I just wish rather than running off of ELO averages it tried to built teams around a median level like SC2 bronze, silver, gold, diamond levels. If only the player base was big enough.

[Nostromodamus]

Some Douche, on 05 November 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Maybe you should look in the mirror.

When I do, I don't see a self-absorbed egomaniac who decides that it's a great idea to run solo into the ranks of the enemy team in the first two minutes in a Centurion only to complain about how "bad" my team is for deciding to play with a little more thought than "charge!" when the inevitable happens, which was the gist of my post.

Yes, bad teams happen, but barreling into the enemy formation at top speed as soon as the match begins and expecting others to follow is delusional for a solo drop game.

Edited by CelticCross, 05 November 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Jetfire, on 05 November 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

The ranter's aren't right to rant, but the players who play very badly and often deliberately to boost their own KDR's are also wrong and neither makes me enjoy my time in game.

Boosting the KDR from like like what, 1 to 2? let them have their low KDR 'buffs'.
They will never get a good KDR by playing badly, especially in PUGs where you actually have to live up to your own Elo quota.

[Percimes]

DaZur, on 05 November 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Going "Leroy Jenkins" into the fray in order to "do something" is not necessarily by definition the epitome of a "good player".

There's a time to play peek-a-boo and there's a time to push... Knowing when both are appropriate and knowing when to do one or the other is a signature of a "good player".

Considering the amount of timidity I see during matches I'd say not many people know when to push or how to push. Defense is usually only a slow defeat. At least in the solo queue.

[BourbonFaucet]

Typically when I say "potato team", I meant that we ALL got screwed over royally, not that somehow I'm a wizard and could have somehow saved the match single-handedly.

Either we all win, or we all lose.

[Kalimaster]

Complaining that you got creamed and taking it out on your fellow players does not do anybody any good. Perhaps someone got in a lucky shot, or the opponents swarmed. There are so many ways to die in this game, from overheating to getting hammered by machine gun bullets. Skill, and luck only go so far. Tactics and what combination of Mechs are in play often make the difference.

Every player has his or her own play style. Some are in your face and like to brawl, others are sneaky and like to nail someone from behind. This is a good game. The temptation to complain for a player is always going to be there. My suggestion is to ignore these individuals unless they become a problem. Take a screen shot of the complaint if you feel that this individual is out of line.

The problem comes when you have to sort out if the fellow is just blowing off steam from a bad match or if he is really an (expletive). I've had matches where the other team completely stomped us, and I've been in matches where the Mechs we were using overwhemled the opposition. Few matches are awesome brawls, but most are somewhere inbetween.

This is an aggressive game, and upon occasion tempers will flare as a player gets his or her clock cleaned. The important thing to remember is that this is a game. Tactics, choice of Mech, and proper play style for the Mech you are using will help determine your victories. However, sometimes I must admit that being called a noob gets annoying. I've been playing this game for at least two years now, and I think that ejects me from the "noob" list. But other players won't even consider how long you have been playing if you catch a gauss round and get taken out at the start of a good brawl. Some players like a head to head mass fight with no hanging back, a big blitz so to speak. These result in quick games. But the hearty fire-fight that puts a player on the edge of his seat to see who wins or looses his hardly ever going to be a fast game. They take them to the timer, and that last laser blast or snap shot often determines the winner.

[Sethliopod]

I personally think the issue of dead guys blaming the team has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, who was right, who was better, who should be supporting whom, or any number of idiotic tactics. (Friendly Fire nothwithstanding)

The questions a rager should be asking themselves is this:

• Why did I choose to type that in All Chat versus Team Chat?
  
• Is it my own insecurity that compels me to openly attack and disassociate myself from the team?
  
• Is my continued bitching an attempt to let off steam or am I trying to sabotage morale, hurt the team, and create a loss to vindicate my feelings?
  
• Do I really want to become known as the troll in this rather small community?

Being a petty jerk myself, if I see a guy who does this regularly, I like to ask him before the match, if he intends to cry about this match, too.


edit: typos/censors

Edited by Sethliopod, 05 November 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[DaZur]

Percimes, on 05 November 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Considering the amount of timidity I see during matches I'd say not many people know when to push or how to push. Defense is usually only a slow defeat. At least in the solo queue.

Agree to a point...

I've also seen situations where players get antsy and push too early when waiting out one more kill would have payed out in spades.

Aggressive play only works if "everyone" is aggressive. Otherwise, absolutely timidity gets folks smote.

Edited by DaZur, 05 November 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

As mentioned by others, my standard reply is "Says the dead guy..."

A good rule of thumb for new players is, if you're dead...keep your mouth shut unless you are actually helping your team.

Blaming and shaming your team from the grave is the hallmark of a dead NOOB.

[Percimes]

True, berserker rage doesn't do much, except maybe for the Hulk.

[Some Douche]

Bhael Fire, on 05 November 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Blaming and shaming your team from the grave is the hallmark of a dead NOOB.

Or an old vet left to fight 6v1 that's just trying to help YOU stop being a noob.

[DONTOR]

No offence but maybe its the Elo range you're in. In my games I rarely see any insults, and alot more "helpful" chat.

"RED CT on the stalker" HIDE for the CAP WIN!

I'm especially guilty of this, once I die I start spewing info into the Team chat lol.

[Cygone]

Frankly, because the better players know where they need to be to stop the push from the other team. If the bads are in the wrong position and not supporting the goods, then the goods get rolled and the game is lost.

[Gallowglas]

Certainly there are rare occasions when the team legitimately makes a bad choice that leads to a good player dying early. However, more often then not the reason the player dies early is because they really aren't that good, particularly where situational and tactical awareness are concerned.

The fact that they immediately launch into an attack on the team is usually a strong indicator that they don't learn from their mistakes because they don't understand when they make them. It's a vicious cycle because if you can't self-critique, your outcomes rarely improve. Instead of raging about how your team is a bunch of cowards for not pushing when you lead the charge into withering fire, consider whether or not such a move is really tactically sound in the first place. Would you do it if the risk were real (as in real-world), but victory was also a real necessity? If not, it's entirely plausible that it's not a sound principle.

The one thing I've found with many of these post-death armchair tacticians is they rarely adapt their "tactics" to changing circumstances. They do everything by rote, whether or not they understand the implications of those actions based on team composition or circumstance. "Flushing" on River City when you have two Dire Wolves in the back or charging a brawl-heavy team when your own team is more ranged-heavy are bad plans for a reason.

That's not to say that death order has any direct correlation with skill. I've seen some horrendously bad players end up as the last man standing. However, there are some trends to be seen amongst those who die early and then spend the rest of the match being abusive.

Edited by Gallowglas, 05 November 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Kain Demos]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Obviously, it isn't, but they would like to think that they are. If only it wasn't for the "noob team" they were stuck with, they'd be snuffing out the Clan Invasion by themselves. Or so they believe.

Just got ridiculed by one of these "experts". He was spouting the usual diatribe of how "the team" was crap and was the sole cause of his demise in the first few minutes. I called him on it and he proceeded to talk crap about how my use of cover while my weapons cycled was "cowardly" and that I should "get out and fight instead of hiding", despite me taking on an assault lance by myself and causing 600+ damage. My match score was also almost twice his.

I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so constant. Seems every game the pile of dead guys just starts hurling BS statements about how bad the rest of the team is. Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

/rant

Sometimes people just get pissed at something that happened to them and then have to rage in chat afterwards.

Sometimes I'll speak up, usually under only a few scenarios:

It was a mostly cowardly team that wouldn't advance or come out of cover, not even to assist a few team members being overwhelmed by numbers. Sometimes these guys piss me off enough to where I will charge in against their whole team and just try to kill at least one guy before they get me to get it over with. Especially if I or someone else can see the enemy outmaneuvering us and the majority still elect to hide behind a hill.

I'm in a Dire Wolf and they just simply can't be bothered to wait for me or send help when the light lance or entire enemy force finds me by myself.

I see what the enemy is trying to do, suggest a good course of action, get no response and predictably the team walks into the trap and gets slaughtered.

Get TK'd

EDITED TO ADD: Can't believe I forgot this but besides obvious TKing just excessive friendly fire. Again especially annoying from LRM boats who are just indirect firing your target while you may be in a face to face brawl wiht someone.

Edited by Kain Thul, 05 November 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I have to say yes. Very often the worst players are the last to die. Part of it is because the worst players are either the most aggressive or the least aggressive. So dying first is probably a bigger red flag than dying last, one I am working on because I have often failed to gauge how aggressive my teammates are and advance while they are retreating.

Yesterday had 11 dead people screaming "R" in chat at a nice spider pilot with incredibly bad aim. Luckily the stormcrow he was trading shots with had much worse aim.

Edited by 911 Inside Job, 05 November 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Michael Abt]

Despite piloting a Hunch i often start pushes, either up front or by by attacking from the rear/flank. It really upsets me that despite announcing it in chat, even typing "PUSH" while i am still fighting the rest of my team is just standing around and enjoying the show. What upsets me about it is not my death, i absolutely know that it is very likely when i am committing myself, it is the fact that my effort was not only in vain but them missing the window of opportunity is going to cost us the match.