179 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

MechWarrior5152251, on 09 June 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

The only map in which 54 kph gets you killed is River City. All PGI has to do to fix this is stop dropping assaults on the left flank of the lower city team.

A common tactic of the high ground team is to light rush the spawn area. I do not load up on back armor and if you turn to fight and none of your team has long range support from the citadel you are dead. Often I will run to the citadel but lose half my CT and STs getting there. And lots of noobs will not try to give you sniper cover which would cause most of the vultures chasing you to back off if they did.

Also frustrating as a light with only short range weapons when I cannot cover the Dire Whales running to the Citadel.

wait you are in a light mech designed to fight light mechs and you claim you cannot help the whales across?!!? Hoo boy...

[Almond Brown]

riverslq, on 05 November 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

well, you're ******* wrong
i spawned with 2 other dwolves on river city
we started moving, and by the time we got to the dropship on top which is a few hundred feet from where we spawned, here comes 2 fast mediums. call for help, noone turns around, start walking backwards to not take hits to the back. first dwolf down, 3-4 more mechs join up, we're ******. noone helped.

so that's a nice idea and all, but when you have to maneuver through all that **** at the top of river city from spawn to even make it to the rest of the drop? you're ******.

48kph.
death by pug.

Did I read that right? 3 DireWolf's need help against 2 Medium Mechs and called out for HELP? Really? I think we may have found your real problem...

[Roadkill]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

I had a match on Caustic where both teams were 'nascaring' ... Well, I was 'nascaring' far ahead of most of my teammates in my DireWolf.

If you were leading the charge in your Dire Wolf then neither team was "NASCARing". Even if you spawn in the forward lance, and Dire Wolf is not fast enough to lead the charge if the team NASCARs.

If you were in front leading the charge, then what you had was simply a bad team that didn't coordinate properly with your push.

The guy who got left behind was an idiot. But there are also idiots in Lights who charge forward willy-nilly and get themselves killed 45 seconds into the match because they think they have an invulnerability lag shield. I've had those idiots in Lights complain that no one supported them, too. Idiots will be idiots, regardless of weight class.

[Gut]

Only read the first page of comments, but didn't see the real reason to wait for your assault: if the enemy lights get a good spawn and your dire gets the crappy spawn, they will literally not have time to get to the rest of the team before being assaulted. And in 1v1 scenario like this, a good light player can easily take down a dire who doesn't have anyone there with him.

[Bobzilla]

Almond Brown, on 09 June 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Did I read that right? 3 DireWolf's need help against 2 Medium Mechs and called out for HELP? Really? I think we may have found your real problem...

Perfect example of people not having a clue about any sort of tatics or support.

What did you want them to do? Sit taking the time to take out the mediums (who have the great advantage of time, along with the manouverability to use it, in this scenario) while the rest of the enemy team catches up to roll over the DWs?

Or do you think they just should have kept going along the bridge or open water getting cored from behind the whole time?

It's not always the immediate threat that's the problem. In a slow mech you need to predict the tide of battle, which they did and realised they are in a really bad spot (cause they were left behind). Best case scenario it woulda been 2 dead enemy mediums vs 300 tons of freindly mechs dead.

[Templar Dane]

Saw an atlas last night that was bitching about being left behind. I turned around to see where he was, and he was still at his spawn point 30 seconds into the match.

So it seems.........

• Log into MWO
  
• Select slow assault
  
• Get in queue for match
  
• Go afk
  
• Come back to running match
  
• Complain about being left behind
  
• Die
  
• Complain some more about being left behind
  
• Ragequit
  
• Complain on forums

Edited by lordtzar, 09 June 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Roadkill]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

If you got left behind on Caustic it is always ENTIRELY your fault. You can cut through the crater and catch up with your team easy even when doing 48 kph. So, don't ever start talking about getting left behind on Caustic.

Not if the enemy is paying attention, you can't. Cutting through the crater means you have no cover, and at 53 kph it takes forever to get across. The crater also generates significantly more heat than the rest of Caustic, and Caustic is already a hot map. If you're in the crater you basically can't even fight back when attacked. Sure you'll get off a couple of return shots, but then you'll be pushing your heat limit. It's not a good place to be for any amount of time.

If the enemy is paying attention, cutting through the crater is a guaranteed way to die quickly. If you can get away with that regularly, I want to be in your Elo bracket.

[Kotzi]

Because theres only NASCAR. Ever tried pushing D2, when your most slow mechs spawn there? Called helping your teammate and adapting to the situation or good teamwork. But ye, just run counterclockwise and hope that your enemy has more slow mechs than your team. Works on every map...

[Zoid]

Also worth mentioning that assaults generally have a long queue time, so you're more likely to be afk for the first few seconds of a match.

All in all it's a really dumb team that leaves an assault behind. Even if it's entirely his fault, at least take advantage of all that armor to hammer the enemy team while they're focusing the slow DWF. The worst part about driving an assault mech is not getting left behind, it's realizing that you're not going to be able to get away and just have to go down fighting wherever you are, only to see your team all hiding. Yeah, great, I just kept 6 mechs busy for a minute straight but instead of taking easy, clean shots you decided to hide. I'm going to enjoy watching you die.

[PhoenixFire55]

Roadkill, on 09 June 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Not if the enemy is paying attention, you can't. Cutting through the crater means you have no cover, and at 53 kph it takes forever to get across. The crater also generates significantly more heat than the rest of Caustic, and Caustic is already a hot map. If you're in the crater you basically can't even fight back when attacked. Sure you'll get off a couple of return shots, but then you'll be pushing your heat limit. It's not a good place to be for any amount of time.

If the enemy is paying attention, cutting through the crater is a guaranteed way to die quickly. If you can get away with that regularly, I want to be in your Elo bracket.

If their team is paying attention and yours does not and provides you with no cover when you do, then you already lost the match, beacuse your team sux.

[Dimento Graven]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

... Stuff...

I only partially agree with the sentiment of your statement.

Having piloted lots of slow moving assaults, a lot of times, and getting force spawned into "bad" locations I can tell you, it's not so simple of "just keep moving, it'll eventually be all right".

In River City, there are spawns on either side of the map that are prone to be rushed by the enemy team 90% of the time. D2, and B4. If a big slow moving assault spawns in either location, and if the enemy has faster moving lights/mediums/heavies, the slow moving assault, moving at best possible speed, without getting stuck on indestructible cars, light posts, corners of buildings et al, will be HALF-WAY to cover by the time the enemy begins shooting him in the ass.

Now, at that point the assault has a choice, continue running, while out in the open, showing the enemy his weakest armor locations, OR, turn and fight, and try backing to safety, moving even slower, BUT AT LEAST, providing some of his thickest armor for the enemy to shoot.

Now IF you've dropped in a large enough pre-made that's paying attention, maybe you'll have some cover from your teammates to make option 1 more viable and desirable than option 2. However, if you're in the solo queue, or only dropping with 1 or 3 other people in your pre-made, chances are that B2/B3 or D3/D4 respectively, are doing their best to chase after the slow movers at the aforementioned trouble spots.

Rarely, and I do mean, EXTREMELY F'ING RARELY will you get 4 to 8 other people not in comms with you to STOP, and provide cover to allow you to get across.

Most of the time it's an EXTREME over simplification to just expect the big assaults, spawning in the rush spot, to survive and/or be willing to be shot in the ass while you and your cohorts leave them to die, to chase the enemy's assault who have spawned in their opposite rush spot.

Sorry man, this is a complete, YMMV situation.

[Roadkill]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

If their team is paying attention and yours does not and provides you with no cover when you do, then you already lost the match, beacuse your team sux.

Your team is already not paying attention because it left its assaults behind, thus requiring you to cut across the crater to catch up.

[Almond Brown]

Bobzilla, on 09 June 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Perfect example of people not having a clue about any sort of tatics or support.

What did you want them to do? Sit taking the time to take out the mediums (who have the great advantage of time, along with the manouverability to use it, in this scenario) while the rest of the enemy team catches up to roll over the DWs?

Or do you think they just should have kept going along the bridge or open water getting cored from behind the whole time?

It's not always the immediate threat that's the problem. In a slow mech you need to predict the tide of battle, which they did and realised they are in a really bad spot (cause they were left behind). Best case scenario it woulda been 2 dead enemy mediums vs 300 tons of freindly mechs dead.

What the F! So your saying it is preferably that 300t of DW get killed by 2 Mediums, versus them at LEAST killing those 2 Medium before their other friends show up?

According to the the OP, they lost both DW's and the enemy lost nothing...

Perfect example of players not having a clue about their Mechs and the Power they wield but would rather cry about getting left behind.

If required, I would gladly take a 300t to 100t fight, even if that advantage was only for 60-90s. It would not end well for the 100t of enemy, I can assure you that. All the rest of that Team did was miss out on that Matches real fight. LOL

Edited by Almond Brown, 09 June 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Roadkill, on 09 June 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Your team is already not paying attention because it left its assaults behind, thus requiring you to cut across the crater to catch up.

I believe I already explained why it is not always the case. They might and probably do pay more attention then you think.

[Bobzilla]

Almond Brown, on 09 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

What the F! So your saying it is preferably that 300t of DW get killed by 2 Mediums, versus them at LEAST killing those 2 Medium before their other friends show up?

According to the the OP, they lost both DW's and the enemy lost nothing...

Perfect example of players not having a clue about their Mechs and the Power they wield but would rather cry about getting left behind.

If required, I would gladly take a 300t to 100t fight, even if that advantage was only for 60-90s. It would not end well for the 100t of enemy, I can assure you that. All the rest of that Team did was miss out on that Matches real fight. LOL

I'd rather the team not nascar around the map and leave the slower mechs behind and avoid that whole situation, you know, the point of all this.

But as I said, the mediums don't have to push and get killed, just keep the DWFs from leaving so the team can focus them easily, and maybe not lose even 1 mech, hence the 'best case' part.

[Templar Dane]

Almond Brown, on 09 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

What the F! So your saying it is preferably that 300t of DW get killed by 2 Mediums, versus them at LEAST killing those 2 Medium before their other friends show up?

According to the the OP, they lost both DW's and the enemy lost nothing...

Perfect example of players not having a clue about their Mechs and the Power they wield but would rather cry about getting left behind.

If required, I would gladly take a 300t to 100t fight, even if that advantage was only for 60-90s. It would not end well for the 100t of enemy, I can assure you that. All the rest of that Team did was miss out on that Matches real fight. LOL

If three whales are getting killed by two medium mechs........it's not the team's fault. The whale pilots were obviously rubbish pilots.

Three decent whale pilots get rushed by two medium mechs, the medium mechs end up smoking wreckage. The rest of their team show up? All three drop into the tunnel and **** anybody that comes in.

They spawned at the dropship spot, but couldn't even get to the dropship before two medium mechs got there. Sounds to me like maybe a light sniped one in the back and he turned around instead of continuing on. He then got swarmed by the enemy team. The other two whale pilots turned around and tried to help, and also got swarmed.

[Dimento Graven]

lordtzar, on 09 June 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

...
If three whales are getting killed by two medium mechs........it's not the team's fault. The whale pilots were obviously rubbish pilots.

...

Not necessarily, 2 medium pilots focus fire the rear CT of one DW, it could go down in one salvo, leaving 2 DW's. If either one, or both, don't turn around and start fighting, then they are more than likely to die quickly as well. Even so, having to turn around and fight mediums, to keep them from chewing through your ass armor means the other 6 'mechs from the two non-rush spawns will reach you in short order and it's at best 3 DW's vs. 6 'mechs, in which case, again, you could be a great pilot but it's rather damned difficult to survive 6v3 odds like that.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 09 June 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[Eider]

Remember kids, real mechwarriors dont nascar "This has been a public service announcement"
Really tho rather than say rush with all your lights who are already infront it usually helps more if you turn around and go the way the assaults are. Not rocket science.

[Roadkill]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

I believe I already explained why it is not always the case.

Not always, no. But usually.

Quote

They might and probably do pay more attention then you think.

What you're implying is that a PUG that doesn't communicate can somehow manage to come to the same conclusion all at once - that abandoning their Assaults is a good idea - while simultaneously the Assaults can't see this perfectly obvious conclusion.

And also that this same PUG that's clearly not all on the same page will notice when the Assaults - which are being run down from behind and not receiving any help from the team - desperately start across the caldera. So having noticed the crossing but not the fact that they were being run down from behind, the PUG will once again all come to the same conclusion simultaneously - that it's now a good idea to stop their NASCAR chase-the-tail push and give the Assaults some support.

Possible? Sure. Likely? Not at all.

What makes it even worse is that the Assaults aren't going to all be together when they get run down from behind. Unless you happen to have 3 Dire Wolves in your Assault lance, some of the Assaults are going to be moving 70+ while the Dire Wolf lags behind at 53 so they're going to get eaten one at a time. Which means that even the Assaults aren't paying attention.

[1453 R]

The problem is not as simple as many folks in this old necro'd thread are making it out to be.

Jman has the right of it overall - if you're in a Whale, then you've accepted the burden of being slow as molasses in January and it's on you to minimize that disadvantage as much as possible. Do not futz around in the spawn point for fifteen seconds on match start, do not play Hopscotch getting to your team, do not take awkward routes that curve around like a belly dancer's hips.

Your job, in that Whale, is to make your best pace towards the support you need to not die. If you are doing so, then yes, it's also on your team to offer what support they can to ensure that your firepower gets to make its mark. This is especially poignant on Alpine, where I can, and have, escorted Whales even in something like a Stormcrow because that Whale is clearly making best time for the team.

I've also abandoned Dire Whales while in my Warhawks, and will do so again without regret, because that Whale is futzing around, standing still, heading the wrong way, or otherwise not making best time for the support and cover of the team, and I'm not about to hang my behindus out on the end of the same limb that guy is just because other Whale pilots get frustrated sometimes on the forum. I'm heading to my team as quickly as I can reasonably manage; I'll cut back the throttle and hang with you, Mr. Whale Driver, if you're going to hustle your hams to rendezvous as fast as your porky self can manage, but if you're going to screw around and get yourself killed, I sure as shootin' aren't going to hang around and die with you.

And in Conquest? Well, good luck. Early caps are important in that gametype, and you're also far, far less likely to get NASCAR'd to death anyways since the fight pretty much always centers around the cap points. I'm heading for the fight to support my team's vanguard and hopefully help score those early kills/caps, and you can follow along at best speed and help when you get here. Sound good? Good.

Glad we can come to an understanding, Whale Drivers Anonymous.