38 replies to this topic

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

just kidding

[CocoaJin]

Get yo'....

[ibex230]

LRM is the cancer of this game. Reminds me a lot of armor lock in Halo Reach.
It's not op and it's not broken, it's just really boring to play against.

[Cementi]

Lrm's really are not that hard to counter. For starters if everyone would just run ams that would be a help. But apparently losing 1 to 1.5 tonnes is simply too much for people to take it (eye rolling here), or they would have to sacrafice some weapons for the right omnipod (more eye rolling). I mean honestly have you seen what happens when a team pushes in on a group of lrmers when the entire team is running ams......its a beautifull sight.

So while I mentioned it.......push for the love of all things mech push. Standing back and popping in and out just long enough to give them target lock so you can snap off a snipe that may or may not hit and often times at reduced damage for the range just so you can get missles rained on your head is just plain stupid. However before you do, bring your ams and comunicate to your team. The team that pushes together lives together.

If you absolutely must snipe, bring a radar depravation module. Then at least you have a chance of evading the missles as you pop back around the corner.

Learn where good cover is on each map so that you can hide behind hills and structures that block lrms, the further away you are the higher the trajectory of the missles so keep that in mind when choosing what to hide behind.

Having at least one ecm equipped mech stay with the main group also helps.

Always keep a look out for spotters behind you. You cannot chase them but if you keep forcing them back into cover then they cannot light you up for the lrmers.

As for lrms being a cancer of this game.......well I recall before they were buffed everygame devolved into a bunch of ridge humping pop tarting bulls#!^. Ya that was so exciting......every map was like playing on river city where people would go to one side or the other and spend 10+ mins ineffectively sniping at each other.

For me lrms (and somewhat streaks) are almost where they should be. The last changes that need to be made would be if you have LOS you should get target lock (before you rage read the rest) however no more indirect firing UNLESS the unit is actively locked and tag/narced by a spotter. If there is no active tag or narc then target data should not be transmitted for missle locks. However before that can be done ecm would have to be fixed so as to allow target lock for anyone if you have los.

Table top you knew were everyone was unless they were under ecm or shut down. Thats where you needed bap. However if you had los on them you could get target lock. Thats the way things should have been from the begining but they were not. It is slowly getting fixed though because siesmic essentially didnt exist in table top because everyone kind of got it for free I doubt we will see a true incarnation of ecm.

[Willard Phule]

ibex230, on 08 November 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:

LRM is the cancer of this game. Reminds me a lot of armor lock in Halo Reach.
It's not op and it's not broken, it's just really boring to play against.

Member since August 2014. No offense, man, but you'll pardon me if your opinion doesn't have the kind of weight that someone that's been around a while and knows how to play the game would have.

Cementi, on 08 November 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

Lrm's really are not that hard to counter. *STUFF*

Correct. All of that stuff is good advice and I'm sure it works like a charm in the group queue or in private matches. Unfortunately, the Solo Queue isn't a game between two teams. "Team" implies a group of people that have the ability to communicate and who have built their mechs around a team principle.

In the Solo Queue, we have 12 random people forced to endure each other's incompetence. Important pieces of equipment that are common on your "team" are rare in solo play. Good luck having any BAP/CAP to counter the 6 ECM mechs the other team has. And, since "fire and forget" is the first skill learned, you see a LOT of LRMs.

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

If you PUG You have to accept that portion of the lottery for what it is man. It's part and parcel of RANDOM team building.

Remember what I've been telling you about the Solo Queue? "The better you are, the more you have to carry?"

This is one of the carried. Someone that builds a mech for a single purpose....in this case, close range brawling, apparently. No way to contribute to the long range barrage that softens up the enemy. Probably less than half his weapons are effective at medium range. Easily just as useless as the guy that builds an all-LRM boat and runs out of ammo.

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

A match made in Heaven

Nice. Not everyone in the Solo Queue needs to be carried, man. I hope you run into Lords every single time you drop in the group queue this weekend, Joe.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 08 November 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

Remember what I've been telling you about the Solo Queue? "The better you are, the more you have to carry?"

This is one of the carried. Someone that builds a mech for a single purpose....in this case, close range brawling, apparently. No way to contribute to the long range barrage that softens up the enemy. Probably less than half his weapons are effective at medium range. Easily just as useless as the guy that builds an all-LRM boat and runs out of ammo.

Actually I do not have to carry more in PUGs. I will carry what I can and if the team loses I did my part and I can lose with pride.

Quote

Nice. Not everyone in the Solo Queue needs to be carried, man. I hope you run into Lords every single time you drop in the group queue this weekend, Joe.

If I did, I would be honored as they are well above my level of expertise. And should I be able to kill just one. It would be a major victory in my book.

Remember Phule, I'm 48 years old and have 32 years of gaming under my belt. I have likely won and lost more games than the majority of players here. My requirements for a fun time are not the same as those with less time in service playing games.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 November 2014 - 04:47 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

If I did, I would be honored as they are well above my level of expertise. And should I be able to kill just one. It would be a major victory in my book.

Uh, huh.

Let me ammend that, then. I hope, at some point this weekend, you receive a vicious paper cut on your primary trigger finger. I also hope that, immediately following your life-threatening sucking finger wound (and possibly even performing a thumb decompression), your youngest child "accidentally" spills lemonade on it.

Edited by Willard Phule, 08 November 2014 - 04:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 08 November 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Uh, huh.

Let me ammend that, then. I hope, at some point this weekend, you receive a vicious paper cut on your primary trigger finger. I also hope that, immediately following your life-threatening sucking finger wound (and possibly even performing a thumb decompression), your youngest child "accidentally" spills lemonade on it.

You are just so thoughtful!

[Captain Stiffy]

put your lurms in my rear torso baby

[Rhent]

ECM is not a counter to LRM's for fights now due to 1 BAP shutting off multiple ECM's at 350M. I no longer shield groups when they are in brawling range because my ECM is perma shut down now.

[Tahribator]

Save that tonnage and bring AMS. Tell others to do so as well. 3-4 'Mechs with AMS in close proximity pretty much guarantees minimal damage.

[Strikeshadow]

If you don't take some 400m + ranged weapons in anything except a light mech, then you have to wait until the ranged battle begins to end and then go clean up

Edited by Strikeshadow, 08 November 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well before the buffed BAP and consequently nerfed ECM to hell, LRMs were actually under control. ECM prevented locks and LRMs required friendly mechs to use NARC, TAG and UAVs (or dumb enemy players) to actually reach LRMegeddon status.
Great balance in my opinion but everyone whinned about how ECM took easy mode away from them so not LRMs are getting out of control again.

[Tezcatli]

LRMs are mostly a nuisance. They can be avoided in most cases. But there are those moments when they are over represented that stepping out into an open fight will get you rekt. Not purely from the LRMs, but enough so that they strip armor off, and the direct fire opponents gut you out.

Or on the ocassion where you get narcd. If you're not in something fast enough to get into large cover. You might get stripped down and blown away without ever doing anything. That does happen. But it's not every match.

[Mordin Ashe]

I have had many matches where we faced LRM-heavy opposition. We won almost all of them. Proper covering and good aiming goes a long way, and you don't even need ECM. LRMs are very annoying, yes, but much less dangerous than a group of DGN-1N with AC5s or Wubshees/Wubabolts/Wubanything.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 08 November 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Hillslam]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

You can't be segregated though. a Good team has both the "Campy Pot shot & Missile warriors" Plus whatever your style is. I personally like knowing there is an extra 20-80 damage available to damage my target when I'm brawling him. Then again I'm not a Clanner and was taught that overlapping fields of fire is the right way to beat up an opponent... 30 years ago Damn I am old!

This was how ol Joe helped Colonel Custer out of that sticky spot

[KraftySOT]

Again, we know that theyre easy to counter. Its that countering them is boring as hell.

[Willard Phule]

Rhent, on 08 November 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

ECM is not a counter to LRM's for fights now due to 1 BAP shutting off multiple ECM's at 350M. I no longer shield groups when they are in brawling range because my ECM is perma shut down now.

Ok, oh mighty Group player....tell me. Who brings BAP/CAP to a solo queue PUG match?

Group players that had it installed anyway. Some of us old timers that know it's value. New players that are really into their LRM boats (they bring BAP/CAP but fail to bring any secondary weapons or enough ammo most of the time, though).

The new players that get shoved into the matches to balance out the team's Elo average tend not to be able to afford consumables, let alone anything extraneous like BAP/CAP, AMS, ECM (sometimes...you'd be surprised).

That's the thing about the solo queue that noone seems to "get." The solo queue is FULL of inexperienced, sub-par or simply new players. In fact, they're actually used to even out the higher Elo players on each team so both teams will have "equal" averages. That's how it works there.

So, if you're one of those league guys and your unit has been doing well, odds are fairly good you're going to be in the upper third of the range. And...when you come to the septic tank we swim in, you're going to have to carry a LOT of people that don't understand the finer points of the game, like.....moving forward, unzooming without looking at their hands, unzooming to move, locking targets....that kind of stuff.

[King of the Woad]

Cementi, on 08 November 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

Lrm's really are not that hard to counter. For starters if everyone would just run ams that would be a help. But apparently losing 1 to 1.5 tonnes is simply too much for people to take it (eye rolling here), or they would have to sacrafice some weapons for the right omnipod (more eye rolling). I mean honestly have you seen what happens when a team pushes in on a group of lrmers when the entire team is running ams......its a beautifull sight.

So while I mentioned it.......push for the love of all things mech push. Standing back and popping in and out just long enough to give them target lock so you can snap off a snipe that may or may not hit and often times at reduced damage for the range just so you can get missles rained on your head is just plain stupid. However before you do, bring your ams and comunicate to your team. The team that pushes together lives together.

If you absolutely must snipe, bring a radar depravation module. Then at least you have a chance of evading the missles as you pop back around the corner.

Learn where good cover is on each map so that you can hide behind hills and structures that block lrms, the further away you are the higher the trajectory of the missles so keep that in mind when choosing what to hide behind.

Having at least one ecm equipped mech stay with the main group also helps.

Always keep a look out for spotters behind you. You cannot chase them but if you keep forcing them back into cover then they cannot light you up for the lrmers.

As for lrms being a cancer of this game.......well I recall before they were buffed everygame devolved into a bunch of ridge humping pop tarting bulls#!^. Ya that was so exciting......every map was like playing on river city where people would go to one side or the other and spend 10+ mins ineffectively sniping at each other.

For me lrms (and somewhat streaks) are almost where they should be. The last changes that need to be made would be if you have LOS you should get target lock (before you rage read the rest) however no more indirect firing UNLESS the unit is actively locked and tag/narced by a spotter. If there is no active tag or narc then target data should not be transmitted for missle locks. However before that can be done ecm would have to be fixed so as to allow target lock for anyone if you have los.

Table top you knew were everyone was unless they were under ecm or shut down. Thats where you needed bap. However if you had los on them you could get target lock. Thats the way things should have been from the begining but they were not. It is slowly getting fixed though because siesmic essentially didnt exist in table top because everyone kind of got it for free I doubt we will see a true incarnation of ecm.

Let me get right on that in my Cicada. Let's see, ECM, beagle and ams, upgrade engine (because 89kph is AWESOME in a fat-arsed big light) and an ams+ammo. That leaves me room for two medium lasers, unless I have to equip tag. It would be even better in my raven, where, as it is, to be a "team player" (translation: get nothing from a match for myself, just the unvoiced satisfaction of helping others achieve their goals) I do crap damage and get worse scores.

Or, I could just let people die from LRMs.

As it is, in a good game I get 150k. It will be so much better when I'm someone else's stat stick.

Willard Phule, on 08 November 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

Ok, oh mighty Group player....tell me. Who brings BAP/CAP to a solo queue PUG match?

Group players that had it installed anyway. Some of us old timers that know it's value. New players that are really into their LRM boats (they bring BAP/CAP but fail to bring any secondary weapons or enough ammo most of the time, though).

The new players that get shoved into the matches to balance out the team's Elo average tend not to be able to afford consumables, let alone anything extraneous like BAP/CAP, AMS, ECM (sometimes...you'd be surprised).

That's the thing about the solo queue that noone seems to "get." The solo queue is FULL of inexperienced, sub-par or simply new players. In fact, they're actually used to even out the higher Elo players on each team so both teams will have "equal" averages. That's how it works there.

So, if you're one of those league guys and your unit has been doing well, odds are fairly good you're going to be in the upper third of the range. And...when you come to the septic tank we swim in, you're going to have to carry a LOT of people that don't understand the finer points of the game, like.....moving forward, unzooming without looking at their hands, unzooming to move, locking targets....that kind of stuff.

Uh. I do? I gimp myself because I'M SICK OF FRIGGING LOSING EVERY GAME!!!!!

[edit] Sorry Willard, I'm just getting sick to death of this game. Balance would have to improve to merely be awful.

Edited by King of the Woad, 08 November 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[MischiefSC]

When you need to design your mech, lances and drop-deck around 1 particular weapon system then there's issues with the dynamic. Be that ECM or LRMs. Both are ****. Indirect fire as a game mechanic in a FPS is a poor mechanical concept and in the long run creates more negatives than positives. If you totally removed LRMs completely from indirect fire you'd have a small number of people outraged and a large group going 'Huh.. Yeah... yeah the game is better. Wish it didn't have to go that way but yeah. Better game experience overall'.

You'd have a small number of people outraged if you gave everyone a free bus full of hookers and blow so that's unavoidable.

Nerf indirect fire, buff direct fire for LRMs. Better MW:O game overall.