47 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 November 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

while I agree with your premise? TBH, I am usually too concerned with tactics, strategy and battle to m"maximize" earnings that way. While scouting and other roles certainly needed a buff, your primetime battlers and such should also be compensated, as all the scouting, flanking and such are for naught if you don't have facetanking DWs and Atlases breaking things.

For instance, what you say works well for IFR, Ravens, etc.

What about for less mobile mechs?

I flanked, sniped, killed a bloody dire wolf solo, etc, on the way to saving my teams bacon on canyon country the other day.

Not a horrible match, no, but an outlier.

To break 200k, I have to make heavy combat units do things they were never designed for? Should I drop a laser for a tag and pretend my slow 50 ton ac20 carrier is supposed to be a spotter? (something far better done by an ECM carrier?). Was I supposed to zip all over the map at 71 kph?

No.

I did what I was supposed to. I pretty literally saved the match (ask Meisoohaityou, he was there) because until I flanked we were down, and at the end it was 2 on 5. Other matches you got a Victor go buck wild and destroy 7 mechs....for 200k.

Scouts, skirmishers, etc do need the boosted rewards. But it should not PUNISH heavy combat units and other roles who best contributions to the team are by doing what they are supposed to. WRECK FACE.

Does that mean on occasion, you would see a VTR that gets a ton of spotting, flanking, proximity, etc assists "break" the system? Possibly. But IMO, if that VTR manages to "game the system" and still destroy the OpFor, brawly assault style? Homie just earned every penny.

You talk about Roles, and I agree with ya on a lot of things, but you have to remember, missile boat, sniper, brawler, tank, etc? All legit and crucial roles, too.

Pretty agree with what you say.
Danghen Woolf has suggest an accuracy based reward, and maybe this can be good as a role type rewards, above all regarding the other type of role.
So, we don't "punish" their rewards, but we can buff them.
And if PGI could do this basing on lore, it would be awesome.
For istance, a tipical ac20 mech, Burktross' Huncie, should have brawler reward + ac20 accuracy rewards.
And so on, weapon loadout/lore-based rewards.
What do you think?

edit: lrm-boat. Catapult ---->lrm accuracy rewards. and son on.
just read MeiSooHaityu's post: Bishop's Huncie-4G: ac/20 accuracy rewards.
Saving the match means that your ac/20 was a killer, so it deserves a good income, lore-based too.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 10 November 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 November 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Bishop was a God D*** surgeon with that Hunchback 4G. Bishop was actually getting razzed by the other team because they hated how vicious he was with that A/C20.

It was an awesome match to watch. I just wish I represented a bit more. The Thunderwub only netted me one kill. At least I got to watch Bishop play LOL.

Yea, he saved the match. It was cool to watch.

thanks for the kind words, my friend. It was indeed one of those "everything" is on type matches. Especially since the last 2 mechs I was out of ammo, and that DW had tore me up before he zigged when he should have zagged, lol. I wish I had more of those matches, overall.

Danghen Woolf, on 10 November 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

EA has it close with the way they have it in Battlefield 4, the squad leader can assign obtectives, e.g. attack, defend, priority target, etc and the squad gets bonus points for completeing those objectives, e.g. captures the target, kills enemies capturing the target, kills the market priority target. Having a lance commander be able to say mark the AS7 as a priority target and the lance takes it down = bonus points. Having point Bravo marked for capture and the lance capturing it = bonus points. Having the company commander assign a point to defend on skirmish and having mechs within a given area kill an enemy = bonus points. Give people reasons to take those positions and reward everyone based on their performance in them. Maybe give achevements based on them, Successfully defend 100 times, Kill 50 mechs within 100m of defend point, etc.

that would indeed be HUGE. Of course, often times unless in a large premade, the issue is getting people to actually FOLLOW the orders, lol.

The other issue being in Premades, you usually just give the orders via comms for speed.

Stefka Kerensky, on 10 November 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Pretty agree with what you say.
Danghen Woolf has suggest an accuracy based reward, and maybe this can be good as a role type rewards, above all regarding the other type of role.
So, we don't "punish" their rewards, but we can buff them.
And if PGI could do this basing on lore, it would be awesome.
For istance, a tipical ac20 mech, Burktross' Huncie, should have brawler reward + ac20 accuracy rewards.
And so on, weapon loadout/lore-based rewards.
What do you think?

edit: lrm-boat. Catapult ---->lrm accuracy rewards. and son on.

I like it. You figure in the Quirk/Tiers, PGI assigned each chassis (sometimes rather incorrectly, IMO) a Role. Their rewards should be boosted by how well they fulfill those roles.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 November 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I like it. You figure in the Quirk/Tiers, PGI assigned each chassis (sometimes rather incorrectly, IMO) a Role. Their rewards should be boosted by how well they fulfill those roles.

Esactly.
I believe that having for every role/playstyle thier own reward, the amount of those rewards would be only skill based.
So, I think many players would stop whining about slow assault getting slow income.
Dire wolf, slow mech, may have problems with new reward system, but what about giving it an accuracy reward too, lore based:
Dire prime: ultra ac5: accuracy reward only if it loads that weapon (the famous ultra/5 boat)
Gauss dire: it should have gauss accuracy reward, only if Dire A.
And so on.

Every mech has its own flavour and role; there is always a way to buff income.

The worst quirk, imo: the arrow. It's not its own role to mount an ac/20. Buff MG, instead... double rate fire MG, or pml
Income? accuracy rewards using MG and pml. Going for critical? income for critical hit.

[Danghen Woolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 November 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

Spoiler

thanks for the kind words, my friend. It was indeed one of those "everything" is on type matches. Especially since the last 2 mechs I was out of ammo, and that DW had tore me up before he zigged when he should have zagged, lol. I wish I had more of those matches, overall.


that would indeed be HUGE. Of course, often times unless in a large premade, the issue is getting people to actually FOLLOW the orders, lol.

The other issue being in Premades, you usually just give the orders via comms for speed.


I like it. You figure in the Quirk/Tiers, PGI assigned each chassis (sometimes rather incorrectly, IMO) a Role. Their rewards should be boosted by how well they fulfill those roles.

I agree with you that having communications is the quickest way to assign objectives but unless they are going to add it into the Solo queue, some type of system should encourage leadership and teamwork. It would not be anything game breaking, a couple hundred or throusand C-Bills or whatever. Maybe then you would not see a whole lance leave the AS7 while they run off to who knows where and he is all alone, prime pickings for the hunter lance looking for a juicy mech meal. Additional rewards could be based on having the original lance/company commanders alive at the end of the match.

I agree that some of the quirks missed the mark but it was stated in the DevLog that the quirk choices were designed by the devs and "competitive players with a great understanding of the game mechanics" I think that the quirks could have been left as generalized ones instead of rewarding only weapons that PGI and "competitive" players want to see.

I mix my roles up, with my CPLT I use my LRMs up then I start looking to do close support for other mechs, since people tend to go after the "ears" I can usually get some damage in with the medium lasers. There are a ton of ways to promote group play (not meaning deathball) over onesy twosy mechs running all over getting picked off. It is getting better since the lance rewards but still have a ways to go.

[Why Run]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 November 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Funny, staying with your Lance and focus firing your enemy to death from Oblique angles is...Stupid and Asinine. Guess the Armed Service is doing it wrong. Please go tell the Infantry how stupid it is to do those things! I wanna watch the results.

Dude, I usually respect your posted but on this one you're dead wrong. Rewarding staying all balled up in a game where the best teams are dropping endless strings of airstrikes and arty is just laughable. Watching the pugs get shreaded by them while trying to get the "proximity" bonus?! Once again, it's a haves and have nots. The new rewards make the curve for earning anything of value in this game infinity more difficult, while the rest of us are fine with it because seriously after 50, 60, 100 mechs, who cares? Plus, there is no VOIP in the game, and no real instruction for the new players to understand how they are suppose to make any cbills, so I can only imagine how hard it is for first timers now. Finally, it's another cbill nerf, any way you cut it. Sure, forum heros are all like "woohoo" my group que playstyle finally gives me rewards for our teamspeak ball-o-death + consumable game style. I don't care about them, they like me, spend money and are the HAVES. This game is ever exceedingly difficult for the HAVE NOTS, AKA THE NEW PLAYER.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why Run, on 10 November 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Dude, I usually respect your posted but on this one you're dead wrong. Rewarding staying all balled up in a game where the best teams are dropping endless strings of airstrikes and arty is just laughable. Watching the pugs get shreaded by them while trying to get the "proximity" bonus?! Once again, it's a haves and have nots. The new rewards make the curve for earning anything of value in this game infinity more difficult, while the rest of us are fine with it because seriously after 50, 60, 100 mechs, who cares? Plus, there is no VOIP in the game, and no real instruction for the new players to understand how they are suppose to make any cbills, so I can only imagine how hard it is for first timers now. Finally, it's another cbill nerf, any way you cut it. Sure, forum heros are all like "woohoo" my group que playstyle finally gives me rewards for our teamspeak ball-o-death + consumable game style. I don't care about them, they like me, spend money and are the HAVES. This game is ever exceedingly difficult for the HAVE NOTS, AKA THE NEW PLAYER.

Did I say Balled up WR? I said close, for purposes of the bonus I believe its within 240m(I could be mistaken though). In PUGs I have yet to see players shredded by Strikes. Hurt maybe, but again I've only died twice to strikes and I'm in an Atlas so I am not supposed to be able to outrun strikes by the common complaint.

I earned 4-5 3 Million C-Bill Modules in 2 weeks playing 2-3 hours every other night. I have been a "have not" for over 2 years, The only difficulty I have is learning the counter to the "NEW" play style. For once. in the entire time I have played (Closed Beta) I am being REWARDED fro my play style. Have I ever complained I don't make enough? Even when I wasn't make between Jack and Squat?

50-60 Mechs? I have 7. 5 I barely use. The most I ever had was 9, when I was mastering 2 lights and a medium.

in group Que, I make considerably less cause the caliber of play is much more brutal when faced with 12 man Pro teams. And I use Zero consumables. One Air strike and one Arty Strike since they were released. 4 Coolant Flushes total. No consumable here.

And what player doesn't go to the games website to find out what(if anything) he is doing wrong these days? I'm 48 years old and I track down the forums of every game I am having trouble with, or just to find what the top players are recommending so I can improve my game.

(I'm sorry we disagree on this topic WR,)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 November 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Danghen Woolf]

Why Run, on 10 November 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Dude, I usually respect your posted but on this one you're dead wrong. Rewarding staying all balled up in a game where the best teams are dropping endless strings of airstrikes and arty is just laughable. Watching the pugs get shreaded by them while trying to get the "proximity" bonus?! Once again, it's a haves and have nots. The new rewards make the curve for earning anything of value in this game infinity more difficult, while the rest of us are fine with it because seriously after 50, 60, 100 mechs, who cares? Plus, there is no VOIP in the game, and no real instruction for the new players to understand how they are suppose to make any cbills, so I can only imagine how hard it is for first timers now. Finally, it's another cbill nerf, any way you cut it. Sure, forum heros are all like "woohoo" my group que playstyle finally gives me rewards for our teamspeak ball-o-death + consumable game style. I don't care about them, they like me, spend money and are the HAVES. This game is ever exceedingly difficult for the HAVE NOTS, AKA THE NEW PLAYER.

Any game where new players are matched with expereinced players will have an imbalance. I can only imagine if I came into the game now with nothing but trial mechs and no concept of game mechanics how I would struggle, especially if I had no experience with the lore or TT. New players will try just about anything until they decide on how they will play. The old system rewarded on kills and assists, as a light player it can be really hard to get those valuable kills when you are getting stomped on and are unfamiliar with the maps or mech loadouts. The new system rewards team play, nothing says the whole company has to be within 100m of each other for added bonuses. The deathballs are so prevalent in solo play because there are one or two places on each map that each team will typically head to: caldera, mountain top, tunnel or water, etc and many "experienced" players will use the chat to encourage players to join the deathball. The rewards were also put in place to attempt to create a clear difference between game modes instead of three different skirmish modes with different spawn points.

As far as the "endless airstrikes and arty" I have seen few public matches where this happens, I admit I have little experience in group queue so it may be different there.

Every C-bill to me is important but I also try to play be my own set of "house rules", I keep all of my upgrades based on refit kits and try to maintain the feel of the stock mechs so I am not a competitive player and any competitive group would look at my stats and laugh. So I do not have the C-bill sinks that a lot of other players do, e.g. XL engines and I can really only afford a couple of modules.

Improving the training and tutorials for the game mechanics would go a long way to improving the overall awareness of newer players. The mentorship system, if it gets off the ground, will be another way to help new players. Not limiting private matches to premium users would be a great help for new users to try things out before getting into skewed ELO matches.

[Troutmonkey]

Cerlin, on 10 November 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Stop kill stealing and do more damage.

As a light it's often my job to finish off mechs, as my team mates will bring them down to red but can't kill them off before they retreat back into cover. Using my speed I can quickly hit and run to finish off these mechs. Heavily damaged mechs are still dangerous and need to be put down quickly. Dead mechs do no damage.