108 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Viktor Drake, on 11 November 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

You are underestimating the firepower levels a bit like most people tend too.

Keep in mind that 4 C-ER MLs are roughly equivalent to 6 IS MLs plus generally have about 130m longer range. That is quite a bit of firepower for a 25 ton mech.

Do you know how unsustainable that is on a mech that isn't getting full truedubs in the engine? The Ice Ferret does fine with 3 (10 engine DHS + 2 additional in the engine). Putting on the 4th one requires many DHS additions (pretty much the remaining tonnage you get for the Ice Ferret is converted into DHS). This gets worse on the Mist Lynx. The Kitfox has the same levels of heat dissipation if you wanted to put it together on that, but it is ample tonnage to go with more DHS in it. The Mist Lynx has no such luxury.

If anything, 2 CERMEDS has the same heat generation as 3 med lasers... and ironically does similar damage.as them (even if you replace the CERMEDS with CMPLS).

Speeding up the time to overheat in a Mist Lynx is a bad idea, as you'll be "functioning" with only half of the lasers when push comes to shove.

As a suggestion, I suggest you load up the Kitfox-S in smurfy's and just swap out the arms for 4E total (2E for each arm). Plug in 4 ERMEDS. 30% efficiency is terrible. Now, simulate it by adding 2 or 3 DHS in it. At 37%, it's not that much better. So, it's never going to cooldown (heatwise) fast enough to something like a 4 ML Mech that has at least a 250+engine. (45% base efficiency on a Jenner-K... adding 1 more DHS gives it 49% efficiency).

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However yeah the speed is going to be an issue. 113 kph before tweak is going to be tough to work with for leveling purposes and even 124 kph is going to be barely adequate.

Also as you point out, those arms are going to draw lots of fire just because they are so big. This would actually be a positive except all your firepower is in the arms so losing an arm is going to be a pretty major reduction in damage capability. Losing two, and with the size they are, losing two is likely to be common, renders you pretty useless.

Speed is only the icing on the proverbial fail cake. Not only that you can't "engage" at the same speed lights can... you can't disengage. The difference between a Kitfox and a Mist Lynx is that the Kitfox should not even try to engage stuff on its own, but it will have reasonable firepower to defend itself. The Mist Lynx can get to the point as "fast", but if it's going to be chased by another "classic" light mech build, it will lose that type of match. It's a double whammy.

[Greenjulius]

Deathlike, on 11 November 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Do you know how unsustainable that is on a mech that isn't getting full truedubs in the engine?

Yeah, this is a really good point. I've been running the numbers and find that while the Kitfox runs them nicely when packed with DHS, I can't see the Mist Lynx being able to keep from overheating frequently. Even with an elite mech, you can only fire all 4 ERML three times consecutively before overheating, even on a heat neutral map. That's 84 damage, not bad, but not good if you're involved in any kind of fight. That will overheat you quickly.

I've been looking at the newly buffed Clan SPL and really like the prospect of running 4 on the MLX, with an extra 2xDHS.

4xSPL - 12 heat, 24 damage per shot, 8 damage per second until overheat, 2.25 cooldown with a good .75 duration. That's 240 damage until overheat with an elite mech on a heat neutral map. Good brawling capability and damage for a tiny light. The drawback? 110 range. With Range mod5 that's 121/242, still short of great. You'll have to be close to deliver that damage.

Keep in mind, the new way people are running the Firestarter is 6xSPL, which does 24 damage a shot, the same as 4xcSPL. The only difference is the Firestarter can fire that with a faster duration for 9 DPS, the MLX having 8 DPS. I think the extra range the MLX will have is worth it however, and will contribute to more damage being put on target past the very short 110 the IS SPL has. (Again, clan SPL range is 165 before mods)

4xERSL - 12 heat, 20 damage per shot, 6 dps until overheat, 2.25 cooldown with a decent 1 second duration. 200 damage with elite skills on heat neutral map. 200/400 stock range, 220/440 with range mod5. Not bad, and it leaves you with 2.5 tons to work with. Perhaps a clan Targeting Computer 2? That's an extra 13/26 range for 233/446 and 16.5% increased chance of criticals. This might be a fun way to run a light with 6x Jumpjets and CAP. I could enjoy this.

I wish we could remove the CAP and a few jump jets for a couple extra tons, but at least the 6xJJ should make this 25 tonner very bouncy and hard to hit.

Keep in mind the DPS values on these charts are wrong because they forgot to account for the firing duration. (Cooldown+Duration gives you the real DPS) The damage, durations and range are correct however.

Edited by Greenjulius, 11 November 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[DasSibby]

Mist Lynx doesn't believe in leg day.



ALL DAY IS CHEST DAY

[Kassatsu]

So it's basically a Commando with more torso exposure at 90 degree angles and can only equip actual weapons in its right arm if it uses an ECM? Well, at least it has hard-wired jump jets, right?

Totally competitive. Safe to say a medium (or pulse) laser and the biggest pair of SRMs you can fit with at least one ton of ammo will be 'the' build. And it will still get wrecked by literally anything else, except maybe a locust.

A CERLL might be acceptable in it if they give clan mechs actual quirks, this is one that will desperately need them.

Edited by Kassatsu, 11 November 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Given how tiny those are, its a wonder anyone can even fit in them.....they are already the size of an Elemental..dayum.

[Sorbic]

Looks nice from the front but it's legs are tiny when looking at it from the back. I like it overall.

[Alex Warden]

looks good...and small...which is also good...

so i´d say: looks good

[Tarogato]

OH MY GOD YES.

The Mist Lynx is supposed to me a LOT bigger than that... it's official size is actually similar to an Ice Ferret or Stormcrow. I'm really glad they decided to make this thing so tiny, it means it and more importantly it's brother the Firemoth will actually stand a chance at being viable in the game.

So happy. It's adorable! <3

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 11 November 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Do you know how unsustainable that is on a mech that isn't getting full truedubs in the engine? The Ice Ferret does fine with 3 (10 engine DHS + 2 additional in the engine). Putting on the 4th one requires many DHS additions (pretty much the remaining tonnage you get for the Ice Ferret is converted into DHS). This gets worse on the Mist Lynx. The Kitfox has the same levels of heat dissipation if you wanted to put it together on that, but it is ample tonnage to go with more DHS in it. The Mist Lynx has no such luxury.

If anything, 2 CERMEDS has the same heat generation as 3 med lasers... and ironically does similar damage.as them (even if you replace the CERMEDS with CMPLS).

Speeding up the time to overheat in a Mist Lynx is a bad idea, as you'll be "functioning" with only half of the lasers when push comes to shove.

The main difference is that 3 to 4x CERMLAS has much better poke range vs. MLAS.


With 4 of them, around 600m, you lose roughly 30% damage - that's still about 20 damage (or roughly 2x CERLLAS worth at 600m for half the tonnage).

It's unsustainable in a brawl, but you don't have to always fire all the lasers.



This mech will have to work hard, but it's no different from a commando in that regard.

[CimaGarahau]

Wow nice big shoulders! Must work out quite a lot.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 11 November 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

The main difference is that 3 to 4x CERMLAS has much better poke range vs. MLAS.

3 is doable. 4 is unrealistic.

Poke range is great... overheating when challenged is not. I hate to say that the Ice Ferret would be able to challenge this mech. That's says a lot as much as people hate on it.

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With 4 of them, around 600m, you lose roughly 30% damage - that's still about 20 damage (or roughly 2x CERLLAS worth at 600m for half the tonnage).

Considering that you can't use 2 CERLL on it, it's kind of a bad comparison to be used here.

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It's unsustainable in a brawl, but you don't have to always fire all the lasers.

Sure, but that doesn't really stop other Lights to trying to gib the arms. Technically, you spend slightly more facetime vs other Lights than the other way around. Increased exposure hurts arm durability.

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This mech will have to work hard, but it's no different from a commando in that regard.

No. The Commando has extra speed AND tends to have a better DHS capacity. Often times a Commando does not have to worry about heat. Even a 1 ERLL+2med build on the Commando-1B or TDK is sufficient (there are some variations of course).

[MonkeyCheese]

Well I know it is faster nowdays but I have LOVED my deaths knell (arm only hardpoints) since the days it was capped at 150kph

I love my locusts

I am crazy and drive things like ac5 spiders and ac20 ravens that are way slower than the usual builds

124kph was no problem to true raven 4x pilots back in the day and this thing has longer reaching weapons, it is smaller and has better jumpjets. Before speedtweak might be a little bit of a nightmare tho.

[Widowmaker1981]

really don't see a very viable build for this outside of ECM + ERPPC lose 1/2 ton of armour and pretend to be a spider.

25 tons though, so allows some different dropship setups..

[William Mountbank]

I have a question: The cockpit looks like it might have similar, or even worse visability compared to the Locust. Will piloting this mech be like trying to play football with a long cardboard tube stuck to your face?

[B0oN]

Good point there, William Mountbank, but remember that clan clockpits tend to be "airier" designed than their IS-counterparts .

And the rest please remember this is a clan light, not one of those uber-capable IS-light-dmg bombers so it´s more or less condemned to either mob duty and forays under heavy medium coverage (scarecrows, maybe a cutefox ^^) or maybe even partake in a faster diversionary joke

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 12 November 2014 - 02:53 AM.

[DYSEQTA]

Loving the look of it. I didn't realise it was going to be smaller than a spider

Apart from the Mad Dog this is the only mech out of the Wave II package I was keen to drive so colour me happy.

[Myke Pantera]

Scale seems good, but it looks like it's taking a dump ^^ Hope the Panther will look better (closer to Alex's design)

[RustyBolts]

Looks like this is as close to an Elemental as Clans will get. Lol

[Mcgral18]

I've realized something...if this didn't have 4 tons of hardwired equipment...it could have more firepower than the Fenris!

As it stands, JJs should be useful, and when you lose your arms, you'll at least be able to counter ECM.


That does make me wonder how the relation between ECM and AP is. When you turn ECM into counter, does it do the 150/180M range, or the 360 of the AP? I've heard conflicting anecdotal evidence, and have done no testing of my own.

William Mountbank, on 12 November 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

I have a question: The cockpit looks like it might have similar, or even worse visability compared to the Locust. Will piloting this mech be like trying to play football with a long cardboard tube stuck to your face?

As with the Fenris, it looks like there's limited vertical view, which goes against most of the Wave 1 canopy cockpits.



http://imgur.com/a/32whw

[Angel of Annihilation]

Deathlike, on 11 November 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Do you know how unsustainable that is on a mech that isn't getting full truedubs in the engine? The Ice Ferret does fine with 3 (10 engine DHS + 2 additional in the engine). Putting on the 4th one requires many DHS additions (pretty much the remaining tonnage you get for the Ice Ferret is converted into DHS). This gets worse on the Mist Lynx. The Kitfox has the same levels of heat dissipation if you wanted to put it together on that, but it is ample tonnage to go with more DHS in it. The Mist Lynx has no such luxury.

If anything, 2 CERMEDS has the same heat generation as 3 med lasers... and ironically does similar damage.as them (even if you replace the CERMEDS with CMPLS).

Speeding up the time to overheat in a Mist Lynx is a bad idea, as you'll be "functioning" with only half of the lasers when push comes to shove.

As a suggestion, I suggest you load up the Kitfox-S in smurfy's and just swap out the arms for 4E total (2E for each arm). Plug in 4 ERMEDS. 30% efficiency is terrible. Now, simulate it by adding 2 or 3 DHS in it. At 37%, it's not that much better. So, it's never going to cooldown (heatwise) fast enough to something like a 4 ML Mech that has at least a 250+engine. (45% base efficiency on a Jenner-K... adding 1 more DHS gives it 49% efficiency).




Speed is only the icing on the proverbial fail cake. Not only that you can't "engage" at the same speed lights can... you can't disengage. The difference between a Kitfox and a Mist Lynx is that the Kitfox should not even try to engage stuff on its own, but it will have reasonable firepower to defend itself. The Mist Lynx can get to the point as "fast", but if it's going to be chased by another "classic" light mech build, it will lose that type of match. It's a double whammy.

I have actually tested the build on my Kit Fox mounting a total of 4 C-ER ML and 12 DHS (same config as Mist Lynx) and 4 C-ER MLs are just as sustainable on there as 6 MLs are on both my Firestarter and Jenner. Ironically you even point this out yourself.

Anyway, 4 C-ER MLs = 28 damage, with a max damage range of 400m (440m with module) and a max range of 800m (880m with module). 6 IS MLs = 30 damage with a max damage range of 270m (297m with module) and a max range of 540m (594m with module). IS MLs do enjoy a faster pulse but 130-140m range advantage is significant especially since it keeps the Mist Lynx out of Streak or SRM range or even most IS ML ranges as well.

As far as heat efficiency, I find 37% to be adequate in most cases so heat efficiency is relative to the individual. Sure 4 IS MLs with 42% efficiency has greater sustainability but your giving up 30% of your alpha for that sustainability which to me isn't a good trade off. However to each there own.

As far as speed, yes this has me concerned. 113 kph without tweak is going to be hard to work with and 124 with tweak is just barely ok. However I want to point out the aforementioned range advantage and point out that your average Mist Lynx will be able to engage targets significantly farther out than your typical Jenner, Firestarter or Commando. At range your a smaller, less noticeable target and able to use cover much easier. Also you won't have to approach into the danger zone as often to produce damage and get kills. In essence, your tactics have to change but you should be able to offset your speed disadvantage with your range advantage in alot of cases.