Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:
I saw it and understood it without issue, but your little disclaimer did not have any relevance to what I said after. You notice that word, "if"? Yeah, that's a marker for a conditional statement. That means we were talking hypothetically, and that whatever the game has done or is doing was not relevant to the following material. You do seem to have missed the point of that post, anyway, which was to describe what would happen if we started taking energy into account to properly add knock-down, and you citing energy mechanics as the reason for knock-down is the entire impetus for us having this conversation.
Again, you might want to re-visit who's really got the high ground, here, because it sure as the sun rises isn't you.
Yes, well you seem to want to force what I say into some sort of absolute declarative, yet when the same is forced upon you, you get morally indignant.
Interesting debate tactic there, Skippy...
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As for your points:
1. A heavier 'Mech also doesn't have to worry about the consequences of getting run into. See how that works? In fact, right now, if a Light runs into an Assault it takes leg damage while the Assault takes nothing. If you're going to put knock-down in, it has to go both ways. The Atlas should topple over just as much as the Locust when getting hit because you just kicked his leg out (not necessarily destroyed). The Locust should take armor and structure damage all over, the Atlas should take leg armor and structure damage and a little bit of CT structure damage.
You start off that statement incorrectly. Actually the heavier 'mech will take damage too. Just proportionately, not much. Just like everyone "knew" that large 'mechs weren't taking falling damage when walking off cliffs, that was incorrect too, and all it required was a bit of testing to see what was happening.
I absolutely agree, consequences have to be BOTH WAYS, and right now there are FEWER consequences to light pilots who employ the "jam myself into another 'mech so he can't shoot me" tactic, than their targets who have to suffer some damage, and other in game limitations that prevent him from being able to swat the pilot off.
I disagree that the chance the Atlas has to fall should be EQUAL to that of the Locust. I don't recall it working that way in TT and am unfortunately not in a position to check (maybe it had something to do with the speeds of the 'mech at the time of the collision, again can't recall), BUT, I do recall that absolutely, BOTH 'mechs did have a risk.
Unlike now.
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Griefing will be a little less fun for certain individuals when both parties suffer the ill effects and the energy transfer is equivalent in both directions such that you can realistically only do it once.
Pretty much what I said in response to someone else on that possibility.
Making sure there's risk to both the person charging, and the person being charged, and we end up with a more 'thoughtful' implementation of the mechanic.
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2. If you have a hard time getting a light off your arse without rear-firing weapons then you either A.) ran out into the open without support, or B.) aren't particularly bright and failed to use surrounding objects to limit that light's motion in such a way that it either has to retreat or end up in front of your guns.
Now you're just being an argumentative puissant. At some point you have to be out in the open to see your enemies, period, unless of course you've dedicated your life to indirect LRM boat piloting, and EVEN THEN, it's no guarantee that some light pilot hasn't run all the way around the map, to come up behind you and smash his face into your ass.
And EVEN IF you have your ass firmly planted against a building the light mech can still leg hump you from the side, and AGAIN full understanding of the current game mechanics let's you know there are plenty of 'mechs that just can't "see" that low, nor have the ability to aim/bend at targets that close to them, all the while the light pilot takes extremely little risk using that crap tactic.
Now, if there was a chance he could be knocked down for running his face into your ass or leg, he might think twice about it.
Be you can be as big a condescending and patronizing ****** as you want, it still doesn't make the tactic a "skilled" tactic.
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3. See No. 2, and also go ask some of the competitive players how true that really is. I have seen it said that lights are either not agile enough or that Heavies (as in, the weight class...Assaults should never operate without support) are too agile. I, personally, don't have a problem drawing a bead on any light in any of my Heavy/Assault 'Mechs, even the ones without lower arm actuators. Turning in place to rotate faster and then reversing to cover every time your back is aligned to it works, and works well. I've been thwarted by many good Assault pilots who know how to dance and position.
I'm all for thought in my video-games, and I actually would rather they add all those mechanics I mentioned previously (also, less damage for shots connecting at oblique angles would be cool), but what you want is a lopsided implementation that seems to me as something rooted in bitterness over your experience with the game. Saying only the Light, a member of the class with the highest skill cap and lowest population, should suffer from a collision with an Assault would be like saying only the Fighters get destroyed during collisions with Bombers in War Thunder. It's nonsensical. The only way it's balanced is if both parties suffer.
I don't see many competitive players running their lights into the asses and legs of the enemy, at least not intentionally. Most of the skilled light pilots I've seen in the competitive set do a death spiral that never actually touches the enemy.
For most of the competitive set this is a non-issue, and having collision damage and potential for knock down really wouldn't phase them much.
The competitive players are NOT the majority of players.
I don't want a "lopsided" implementation of this. I want something that makes sense for all 'mech classes. Right now, the lights have all the advantage when it comes to 'mech collisions and the result is the common use of crap tactics of cramming your 'mech's face into another 'mechs ass or legs with very little risk and very little repercussion to the light pilot.
If you can't see that, obviously your perspective is skewed and I would guess from this and previous statements that you are in fact an ass hugging light pilot afraid his favorite tactic is about to be a little more risky than he's used to.
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