183 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Troutmonkey, on 16 November 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

How about asking for a hitreg fix instead of calling for unjustified nerfs to all lights?

its not a nerf, its more realistic. hitreg fix is needed anyway but that would propably be worse than collisions.
hell if all my shots at lights that wont register WOULD be registered... then you definetly would choose collisions over hitreg fix.

oldradagast, on 16 November 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Yes... you, and all 3 or 4 remaining dedicated light pilots will no doubt enjoy yet another obstacle that punishes you. The rest of the players will ditch anything under 55 tons and focus on long-range sniping... because this game needs heavier mechs and less brawling, I guess...

wrong. i enjoy the cicada the same way or most blackjacks and vindicators would still love them.
why? because players that play them dont give a damn **** about anything. they LOVE these mechs. no matter how bad they might be.
all the others just swap mechs like clothes but there is no dedication, no identification behind. a true mechwarrior loves his mech no matter what others say or how it might be buffed/quirked/nerfed.

[Revis Volek]

Harime Nui, on 14 November 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Nope. It will not. "Noob queue" can be only avaliable when MWO get's pilot ranks, than "sandbox" can be made. Until this time more mechs in a same battle only solution to unload Matchmaker.

Besides, my solution is easy and cheap to do, yours is just another "I want cookie". Pay to PGI and they will create small maps, noobbox, more server space and etc.

What!?

How do you figure putting MORE mechs and MORE restrictions on the MM would make for better matches?

12v12 is the limit....we dont have big enough maps for anymore then that anyway. Not to mention matches are long anyway. you want 35 minutes matches? That's just dumb....Also nothing you proposed is a FIX for anything, you claimed "someone wants a cookie" ( i have no idea what that even means) and then you claimed 20v20 matches all of a sudden fixes all the problems in the game....

Do you even read what you type?

[Gauvan]

Rubberbanding needs to be fixed pronto, but knockdowns due to collision is a non-starter for me. Lights are incredibly fragile now--just getting hung up on another mech or bit of terrain means you are dead. Scouting is a off the table if you lack ECM as LRMs and flashlighting with ER lasers will cripple you in short order. There just isn’t a gameplay or balance benefit that I see.

About the only place I could see a ‘knockdown’ effect is after a significant fall--if you hit the ground hard enough you collapse and need to get up. Other than that, no thanks.

[Troutmonkey]

Aliisa White, on 17 November 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

its not a nerf, its more realistic. hitreg fix is needed anyway but that would probably be worse than collisions.
hell if all my shots at lights that wont register WOULD be registered... then you definitely would choose collisions over hitreg fix.

Realistic or not, it makes lights harder to use and makes them more prone to well, going prone and dying. If that's not a nerf I don't know what is.

[Vaderman]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Oh I have plenty of concept, but you were making it sound like an incredible feat, which it isn't. And if the game were modelling energy properly, you would utterly destroy even an Atlas by simply hurtling your Locust into its leg. If you think an Atlas is going to survive approximately 7.7 million joules of energy slamming into a leg, which would at least shove it into the ground via removal of said leg (and that by itself would incur substantial damage to the Atlas), I think you should re-examine which of us has no grasp of the potential energy 20 [metric] tons of metal moving at 100 kph has, let alone how the whole 'Mech can't be taken as the point of reference for sustaining an impact.

Of course, if you really want to start saying we should have more proper physics in this game, then the AC/20 ought to be the longest-ranged ballistic and the larger lasers should be totally awful at knife-fighting ranges. Heavy 'Mechs like the Atlas should also have tremendous risk of toppling over when traversing inclines or even stopping too quickly, and falling damage should not be incurred on 'Mechs designed to be dropped from orbit. Finally, maps like HPG and Terra Therma should only afford heat dissipation so slow that it would take hours to dissipate the build-up from a firefight lasting a few seconds.

Still on board, Mr. Physics?

Orbital insertion was a high risk prospect in TT, often resulting in damage or complete destruction of the mech.

Traditionally it was only used when the dropship couldn't land for whatever reason.

[shintakie]

Aliisa White, on 17 November 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

its not a nerf, its more realistic. hitreg fix is needed anyway but that would propably be worse than collisions.
hell if all my shots at lights that wont register WOULD be registered... then you definetly would choose collisions over hitreg fix.

Every time someone uses the "its more realistic" argument in a game about magic walking battlemechs god kills a kitten.

And magic walking battlemechs is the friggin truth. No military ever would field battlemechs. The very idea is unrealistic.

[FupDup]

Aliisa White, on 17 November 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

its not a nerf, its more realistic. ...

SO REAL

[Tristan Winter]

shintakie, on 17 November 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Every time someone uses the "its more realistic" argument in a game about magic walking battlemechs god kills a kitten.
And magic walking battlemechs is the friggin truth. No military ever would field battlemechs. The very idea is unrealistic.

So... let's just go full tard and let mechs shoot laser bullets that move at 500 m/s and bounce of terrain, bring back SSRMs that can turn 180 degrees on a quarter, eliminate fall damage and let LRMs shoot through terrain. Because we're magical girls living in a magical world.

Or how about we all just drop the shenanigans and admit that it's a sliding scale between reality and fantasy and people have different preferences along that line?

I like collisions. Because... it's more realistic ! ! !

[oldradagast]

Troutmonkey, on 17 November 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Realistic or not, it makes lights harder to use and makes them more prone to well, going prone and dying. If that's not a nerf I don't know what is.

Exactly, though there's a segment of this population who feels lights are broken and the most powerful mechs in the game and thus want anything under 55 tons render unplayble. Mech matches should be about assault mechs simply staring each other down, and anything moving over 90kph should be nerfed into oblivion because it might possibly avoid an alpha from a Dire Wolf.

Nevermind the insanity of the above, or the fact that lights are the least played weight class - queue times make that clear, as does a look at team composition during drops... no, no - they won't be happy until their assault mech can simply step on anything smaller and kill it. Because that's Skill ™

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 17 November 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

SO REAL

man i played in closed beta. i know how it feels and i definetly loved it.

Troutmonkey, on 17 November 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Realistic or not, it makes lights harder to use and makes them more prone to well, going prone and dying. If that's not a nerf I don't know what is.

it doesnt make them harder to use, you just have to look up where you move instead of rushing simply into the enemy. without caring for ****.

shintakie, on 17 November 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Every time someone uses the "its more realistic" argument in a game about magic walking battlemechs god kills a kitten.

And magic walking battlemechs is the friggin truth. No military ever would field battlemechs. The very idea is unrealistic.

i wish i would have your ability to look into the future. if they dont implement collision moves then at least damage from collisions that are not just a minor fact. driving 30tons against a wall SHOULD hurt. no matter where.

oldradagast, on 18 November 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Exactly, though there's a segment of this population who feels lights are broken and the most powerful mechs in the game and thus want anything under 55 tons render unplayble. Mech matches should be about assault mechs simply staring each other down, and anything moving over 90kph should be nerfed into oblivion because it might possibly avoid an alpha from a Dire Wolf.

Nevermind the insanity of the above, or the fact that lights are the least played weight class - queue times make that clear, as does a look at team composition during drops... no, no - they won't be happy until their assault mech can simply step on anything smaller and kill it. Because that's Skill ™

i am not even a dedicated assault pilot, my love is with the cicada, raven and quickdraw. so stop talking trash just for the sake of it.
i even love my refitted trebuchet that has a XL210 installed.
you just seem to be a typical metagamer that wants everything as easy as it can be.
i dont want a game that gets boring especially not a battletech game so i welcome everything that gives me a challenge to keep this game interesting for more than just some months.

[Almond Brown]

Huginmunin, on 14 November 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Yeah yeah yay realism and all, but this will have the effect of screwing over light mechs yet more than they already are, and that's a shame.

Not sure what you mean. At 120+ kph a Light can't be run into by a heavy Mech unless they allow it. How in hell is a 75+kph suppose to chase down that 120+ Mech again.

I suspect the actual "knockdown" mechanic will/should be very difficult and also very damaging to both parties.

Thus FupDup may get to knock down folks, but after 2 hits, he may actually have compromised his own rides armor and structure in doing so...

At least that is what I hope happens.

[D1G17AL]

I for one am happy to see collisions brought back. When they were in the game, it really wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. It was taken out due to some abusive players being rude and trolling the developers with the mechanic. Seriously, every Mechwarrior game has had some form of knockdown and collisions. Hell some even had close combat, *GASP*

I welcome any addition of physics. It almost always improves the fun factor of a game.

[Troutmonkey]

Aliisa White, on 18 November 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

it doesnt make them harder to use, you just have to look up where you move instead of rushing simply into the enemy. without caring for ****.

Well before I only had to worry about be stopped for a second as I lag into a wall, but now I have to worry about being stopped for several seconds as I lag into a wall, fall over, and then have to get back up. No matter how you put it lights are now harder to pilot, as the consequences for making an error will be far greater than before.

[Moogy]

Any news on collisions?

[Alistair Winter]

Moogy, on 06 May 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Any news on collisions?

Holy crap, I totally forgot about that. "Top priority after Dec 15th", but I haven't heard a word about it since. They've only been talking about CW Beta 2 and UI 2.5 and NPE.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Gauvan, on 17 November 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Rubberbanding needs to be fixed pronto, but knockdowns due to collision is a non-starter for me...

that's most likely on your end. check with your ISP

[Ialdabaoth]

Just make collision probability scale with various factors, and we should be good to go.

- Replace the "Pinpoint" elite skill with a "Stability" skill, which halves the chance of getting knocked down.
- Have the "Advanced Gyros" module decrease the chance of knockdown by the same amount that it decreases screen shake.
- Have knockdown dependent on each mech's speed and mass. If A and B run into each other, calculate a vector impulse of Impact = (speed[A] * Mass[A] + speed[B] * Mass[B]). Then A's chance of falling is proportional to |Impact| / Mass[A], and B's chance of falling is proportional to |Impact| / Mass[B]. You could add some dot-product magic so that getting rammed from behind was twice as likely to knock you down as getting rammed from the front, say.

Edited by Ialdabaoth, 06 May 2015 - 03:18 PM.

[Ph30nix]

I was about to rage about yet another person today necroposting but then i was like HOLY **** i had forgotten about this WTF!!!! Id love some answers about this too



(dont ask why i used a gif from buffy i honestly dont know..... but alyson hannigan 10x hotter then sarah geller

Edited by Ph30nix, 06 May 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Replace the "Pinpoint" elite skill with a "Stability" skill, which halves the chance of getting knocked down.

Being a good pilot should be the only factor that reduces knockdown. Knockdowns should never be RNG. RNG knockdowns make the game lame and punitive and would chase off new players.

Edited by Khobai, 06 May 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Ialdabaoth]

Khobai, on 06 May 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Being a good pilot should be the only factor that reduces knockdown. Knockdowns should never be RNG. RNG knockdowns make the game lame and punitive and would chase off new players.

If you want non-RNG knockdowns, then here's the mechanism you use:

1. Compute "impulse" as above:

Ialdabaoth, on 06 May 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Just make collision probability scale with various factors, and we should be good to go.

- Have knockdown dependent on each mech's speed and mass. If A and B run into each other, calculate a vector impulse of Impact = (speed[A] * Mass[A] + speed[B] * Mass[B]). Then A's chance of falling is proportional to |Impact| / Mass[A], and B's chance of falling is proportional to |Impact| / Mass[B]. You could add some dot-product magic so that getting rammed from behind was twice as likely to knock you down as getting rammed from the front, say.

- Replace the "Pinpoint" elite skill with a "Stability" skill, which halves collision impulse.

- Have the "Advanced Gyros" module decrease the collision impulse by the same amount that it decreases screen shake.

Now, when you're about to fall, you have a certain amount of time, dependent on the calculated impulse, to hit (W/A/S/D) to lean *into* the fall. If you successfully 'get your legs back under you' before the impulse-based time limit expires (somewhere between 0.1 seconds and 0.5 seconds), you abort the fall and regain your balance. Otherwise, down you go.