57 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

As with every other tourney I'm still seeing games dominated by them in solo queue. Spawning without an ecm mech on your side, even after the nerf, means an almost guaranteed loss if the other team spawned with a couple half awake LRM boat pilots.

[Mcgral18]

It made a bad weapon worse.

[EvilCow]

It did, of course, nothing.

It is not the damage the issue, it is the indirect fire by just observation that makes the lrms DEADLY ANNOYING not dangerous.

Damage should probably be increased after reworking targeting.

[SteelKiller]

I don't know about the tourney but I've hardly seen any LRMs in the solo queue over the past few days.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Depends how many LRMs hit you. 1 more point of damage to an LRM10 hitting you is nothing. 200 missiles hitting you and it adds up.

[beerandasmoke]

Lol LRMS actually became a better weapon. Slight dmg reduction in return for a massive ROF buff for most IS boats and ECM was turned into garbage with huge buff to BAP range. Taking an ECM mech into the soloque is now useless unless you get Alpine or Mordor.

[Hillslam]

It accomplished nothing.

They need to lower the IMPULSE on LRMs not the damage.

[terrycloth]

I see fewer LRMs being played...
When I fire them I feel less effective...

But the BAP thing makes games where you never ever get a target because of four overlapping ECM fields less common (fewer people are bothering to bring ECM, for one), so it's probably good overall.

I did have one LRM death where I ran up behind an Awesome to shoot him in the back with an AC20 and SRMs and got hit by so many LRMs that I literally could see nothing but explosions. I couldn't even hit the broad side of an Awesome!

Edited by terrycloth, 14 November 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Styxx42]

Didn't do a thing IMO.

[151st Light Horse Regiment]

How can they get it wrong so many times with regards lrms?

yes theres been fixes for ppc, gauss, poptarts etc. Tweaks to jumpjets, quirks and all that, but LRM's are the single thing that pgi cannot get their brains around.

I've said it a hundred times, make them direct fire like in MW3, instead of some cowardly "lob over the whole map" style weapon.

[Lyoto Machida]

Didn't do anything really...prob best to raise them back to the old level and add .1 to make them 1.2 damage per missile.

[pwnface]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 November 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Didn't do anything really...prob best to raise them back to the old level and add .1 to make them 1.2 damage per missile.

Can we just make them 5 damage per missile and then I'll go play another game

[RockmachinE]

Absolutely nothing on the receiving end. They are just as horrible and control the game just as much. I find myself dodging LRMs 50% of the time in this game.

[pwnface]

LRMs are OP at low ELO and garbage at high ELO. LRMs need a mechanic overhaul and not rof/velocity/damage balancing.

[LordMelvin]

What we have aren't really LRMs. By the standards of the previous games (MW3, MW4 and MWLL) we have MRMs.

LRMs should have massive range, moderate-low damage, and horrendous target tracking. Compare to SSRMS, which have high-moderate damage, pitiful range, and phenominal tracking.

Personally I think the maps are all too small to allow for LRMs.

[Tristan Winter]

It was a gesture to all the people complaining about LRMs, with no actual significance. "See, we're totally doing something about LRMs and acknowledging your criticism! Go back to playing the game now."

People have been pointing out the actual issues for months, if not years.

• Universal indirect fire and sharing of targets leads to boring gameplay
  
• LRMs with high damage, yet low speed and high trajectories make them a great weapon against bads, poor weapon against experienced players.
  
• Very easy to get a lock, again leads to boring gameplay. People with no skill are just standing still behind cover and casually killing new players one-handedly while sipping Kool-Aid.

Make LRMs a weapon for people with high skill, yielding a high reward. Make it fun for all levels of gameplay, not a club to smash people in the steering wheel underhive.

No amount of tweaking to damage or cooldown will fix the problem.

[Quxudica]

Viktor Drake, on 14 November 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Depends how many LRMs hit you. 1 more point of damage to an LRM10 hitting you is nothing. 200 missiles hitting you and it adds up.

To my knowledge It was 0.1 more damage though, so even if you stood still and took all 200 missiles, that's only 20 more damage. Really doesn't seem like anything in the grand scheme of things. I can drop a 45 missile alpha salvo, I'd wager that's close to the average for an LRM boat and it's only 4.5 damage if the entire salvo hits, which is very very rare due to movement and AMS. I still routinely pull 600-900 damage games with this "nerf".

I've been saying since closed beta that the problem with LRM is definitely a mechanics one, not a damage one. The fact that this weapon has almost certainly had the most changes and tweaks in the entire game would seem to support it. I wish PGI would bite the bullet and take a hard look at the basic functionality of LRM's instead of impotently tweaking the damage values.

[Heffey]

Viktor Drake, on 14 November 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Depends how many LRMs hit you. 1 more point of damage to an LRM10 hitting you is nothing. 200 missiles hitting you and it adds up.

If you get hit by 200 missiles you probably deserved it.

[Koniving]

EvilCow, on 14 November 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

It did, of course, nothing.

It is not the damage the issue, it is the indirect fire by just observation that makes the lrms DEADLY ANNOYING not dangerous.

Damage should probably be increased after reworking targeting.

I honestly find the indirect fire has little to no meaning.

It's the firing rate and "lock once and let 'er rip" mentality.

These missile launchers are spewing missiles faster than a single MG can shoot. This is YANKING an explosive warhead from its storage bin, cramming it through the inner workings of a mech, and then JABBING it into a launcher to fire. Aren't these things volatile? Doesn't just one hit cause loads of them to explode?

Spoiler

*** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.

Why are they so damn fast? Why are they goddamn Gatling Guns?

With an armor comparison, 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT.

You can fire 3 times in a little less than 10 seconds from an LRM-20.
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 in MWO, but in BT that's 1.5 per missile, so you're getting the damage of 1 LRM-20 + 1 LRM-10 of Battletech quality at the combination of 3x the ammunition required to do it in MWO. Ever wonder why 180 missiles here doesn't last as long as 120 missiles in BT? The firing rate and damage ratios.

Then you have 3x the chance to miss.

Remember that if 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT... then 2 damage in MWO = 1 damage in BT.
This means 1 missile will deal 2 damage in MWO, which is the damage of BT (1 damage to 1 armor, 2 damage to 2 armor).
We still have that firing rate, which we can reduce now.

If we change the firing rate to twice in 10 seconds (0 seconds, 5 seconds, repeat), you now can deal 2 damage per missile, twice in 10 seconds. Compared to Battletech, that's twice as much (versus our current 0.5 or half as much). So even firing twice in 10 seconds is pretty excessive, but imagine how much easier it would be on ammo tonnage. Now also imagine how much easier it would be once repair and rearm returns? After all you're getting more than double the effectiveness for 2/3rds the ammo... which is basically a flat literal "1 to 1" ratio of effectiveness to BT's LRMs, assuming you can fire twice in 10 seconds in BT.

Just a thought. (Of course SRMs would need equal treatment, 4 damage per missile and a firing rate reduction).

Edited by Koniving, 14 November 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Quxudica]

Koniving, on 14 November 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I honestly find the indirect fire has little to no meaning.

It's the firing rate and "lock once and let 'er rip" mentality.

These missile launchers are spewing missiles faster than a single MG can shoot. This is YANKING an explosive warhead from its storage bin, cramming it through the inner workings of a mech, and then JABBING it into a launcher to fire. Aren't these things volatile? Doesn't just one hit cause loads of them to explode?

Spoiler

Why are they so damn fast? Why are they goddamn Gatling Guns?

With an armor comparison, 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT.

You can fire 3 times in a little less than 10 seconds from an LRM-20.
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 in MWO, but in BT that's 1.5 per missile, so you're getting the damage of 1 LRM-20 + 1 LRM-10 of Battletech quality at the combination of 3x the ammunition required to do it in MWO. Ever wonder why 180 missiles here doesn't last as long as 120 missiles in BT? The firing rate and damage ratios.

Then you have 3x the chance to miss.

Remember that if 1 damage in MWO = 0.5 damage in BT... then 2 damage in MWO = 1 damage in BT.
This means 1 missile will deal 2 damage in MWO, which is the damage of BT (1 damage to 1 armor, 2 damage to 2 armor).
We still have that firing rate, which we can reduce now.

If we change the firing rate to twice in 10 seconds (0 seconds, 5 seconds, repeat), you now can deal 2 damage per missile, twice in 10 seconds. Compared to Battletech, that's twice as much (versus our current 0.5 or half as much). So even firing twice in 10 seconds is pretty excessive, but imagine how much easier it would be on ammo tonnage. Now also imagine how much easier it would be once repair and rearm returns? After all you're getting more than double the effectiveness for 2/3rds the ammo... which is basically a flat literal "1 to 1" ratio of effectiveness to BT's LRMs, assuming you can fire twice in 10 seconds in BT.

Just a thought. (Of course SRMs would need equal treatment, 4 damage per missile and a firing rate reduction).

While I don't disagree with the second part of your post, I'd say the indirect fire aspect is an issue. An the issue becomes compounded the more lrm launchers/mechs there are firing on the target.