262 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

Aron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

It is amusing how LRM lovers desperately try to defend their wheapon of choice. Not even admitting, that the weekend challange has made the game nearly unplayable. True LRMs are not the problem but 4 LRM 60 boats are just not fun to play against.

Not sure if things normalize after the challenge has ended...

Your post is just as desperate in attacking the LRM users. You ignore any and all arguments on why that weapon system is considered weak, how it can be contered and how many players say that they do not have a problem avoiding LRMs. Self reflect please!

[Joseph Mallan]

Aron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

It is amusing how LRM lovers desperately try to defend their wheapon of choice. Not even admitting, that the weekend challange has made the game nearly unplayable. True LRMs are not the problem but 4 LRM 60 boats are just not fun to play against.

Not sure if things normalize after the challenge has ended...

D-DC
S
Hellslinger (3 LRM5 OMG!!!)
Those are the Only LRMs I have on any of my Mechs.

4 LRM60 Mechs are not meant to be fun to play against if you are a slow plodding Mech. Heck they aren't supposed to be fun to run into at all unless you are a fast light. They are supposed to be a challenge though. Are you up to facing it?

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Egomane, on 17 November 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Your post is just as desperate in attacking the LRM users. You ignore any and all arguments on why that weapon system is considered weak, how it can be contered and how many players say that they do not have a problem avoiding LRMs. Self reflect please!

Well he is right that the game play is no fun if lrms get spammed from handful lrm boats.

And just have a look on pge nine where some one posted his lrm atlas pic with stats.. Appearently its not as weak as briefed by some people.

[Catra Lanis]

Egomane, on 17 November 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Which is just a psychological effect either! Your cockpit might be shuddering from impact a lot. Your crosshair is not! Once you learn to ignore the disturbance, you'll regain your advantage.

I can't see either and the opponent might be moving so where do I shoot? While it's a smart tactic I doubt they are intended to be used as flashbangs. I would prefer to have much less shaking and flashing and give the LRMs more damage instead.

[Joseph Mallan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 17 November 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Appearently i was talking out of my experience and some other ppl´s experience in this thread. Pls stay on topic and try not to twist the intension from my post. Thx

I am on topic, Missiles are not a problem. At all, unless the player makes a mistake or a sneaky spotter identifies you as a juicy target. Missiles fire tests patience, and calm under pressure. Those who want a nerf have a lack of patience.

[Apocryph0n]

Aron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Not even admitting, that the weekend challange has made the game nearly unplayable.

Quite the opposite, I made a boatload of LRM-Mech kills in my Ferret this challenge. Just advance in cover/using radar deprivation, once you are on their face, blast away, the Med Lasers they have would work against most fast mechs, if they could turn around fast enough. -> Once you hug their back, you can solo them with basically any mech in game.

[Kensaisama]

The problem as I see it is target data sharing, no indirect fire should be possible unless the target is TAGed, NARCed, or in LOS of a C3 networked mech and targeted by said mech. Since we do not have C3 computers then remove target data sharing.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I am on topic, Missiles are not a problem. At all, unless the player makes a mistake or a sneaky spotter identifies you as a juicy target. Missiles fire tests patience, and calm under pressure. Those who want a nerf have a lack of patience.

Oh

The intension of this thread is actually to make missiles more usefull while changing how they work and not to nerf them or make them useless

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

D-DC
S
Hellslinger (3 LRM5 OMG!!!)
Those are the Only LRMs I have on any of my Mechs.

4 LRM60 Mechs are not meant to be fun to play against if you are a slow plodding Mech. Heck they aren't supposed to be fun to run into at all unless you are a fast light. They are supposed to be a challenge though. Are you up to facing it?

As stated above even from you, it is no fun to face several dedicated lrm boats with lrm 40-60.


Competitive players who get dont see lrms as a thread are annoyed as you can see on the following link

http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

The problem as I see it is target data sharing, no indirect fire should be possible unless the target is TAGed, NARCed, or in LOS of a C3 networked mech and targeted by said mech. Since we do not have C3 computers then remove target data sharing.

That would be a step into the right direction at least if pgi decides not to change the whole lrm mechanic. Some buff´s would beneeded when removing target lock sharing

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 17 November 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 17 November 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Well he is right that the game play is no fun if lrms get spammed from handful lrm boats.

And just have a look on pge nine where some one posted his lrm atlas pic with stats.. Appearently its not as weak as briefed by some people.

The same can be and has been said about every other Massed weapon in the game. To many Gauss (Whine) to man SRM (whine) To many Streaks (Lights whine). But how many IS to many? 2 Mechs out of 12 Bringing LRM60s is about right in my thinking, But others will have a different opinion and that is a good thing.

[RiggsIron]

Since the game isnt following 'lore' anyway - allow mechs to all carry ECM and AMS.

All the whiners about people complaining about LRMs dont care that the game sucks for new players - and less new players = less $$.

As much as I like mechs and Battletech, I would never recommend anyone play this game as it is set up now. Unless they are an addict willing to spend a few hundred dollars and grind XP for 2 months and grind Cbills so they can afford mechs AND modules...anyone else is just going to get murdered over and over and quit in disgust.

[Joseph Mallan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 17 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Oh

The intension of this thread is actually to make missiles more usefull while changing how they work.

As stated above even from you, it is no fun to face several dedicated lrm boats with lrm 40-60.


Competitive players who get dont see lrms as a thread are annoyed as you can see on the following link

http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

Darn right if I stand in the open or far away from cover 120 Missiels will ruin my day. BIT THAT IS MY FAULT not the missile boat's.

I don't care about broken Link to an off site address. Or the opinions of anyone there. Competitive players should be arguing for Missiles to be made more competitive a weapon since most of them don't find them useful.

[RiggsIron]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I am on topic, Missiles are not a problem. At all, unless the player makes a mistake or a sneaky spotter identifies you as a juicy target. Missiles fire tests patience, and calm under pressure. Those who want a nerf have a lack of patience.

Or those who say there is no problem lack understanding of said problem. Ergo their opinion is just hot air.

Hiding behind cover for 10 minutes hoping an enemy decides to come out and fight is fun though right?

[Joseph Mallan]

RiggsIron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Since the game isnt following 'lore' anyway - allow mechs to all carry ECM and AMS.

All the whiners about people complaining about LRMs dont care that the game sucks for new players - and less new players = less $$.

As much as I like mechs and Battletech, I would never recommend anyone play this game as it is set up now. Unless they are an addict willing to spend a few hundred dollars and grind XP for 2 months and grind Cbills so they can afford mechs AND modules...anyone else is just going to get murdered over and over and quit in disgust.

In lore ANY Mechs CAN carry ECM or AMS, None however carried more than 1 AMS to my knowledge (Up to TRO3075)

RiggsIron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Or those who say there is no problem lack understanding of said problem. Ergo their opinion is just hot air.

Hiding behind cover for 10 minutes hoping an enemy decides to come out and fight is fun though right?

I have never hid that long. 2-3 minutes tops then I look for an alternate route to the problem, or bite the bullet and run for the next cover till I am in range of my brawling weapons.

[STEF_]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

Also Missiles are as much a psychological weapon as they are a barrage weapon. You sir are succumbing to the psychological effects of being shelled.

Missiles are not that big a problem, unless you make a mistake, OR a good enemy scout TAG/Narcs you.

Totally quote this. I know you like BT TT.
I really would like a lmr and lock mechanics making lrms a more effective weapon.
In TT lrm is not a psychological weapons. Lrms make damages there, regardless of the skill's level of the hit/locked pilot.
It's not normal that weapon system to be considered good or bad depending on who is being hit by; it should be just the opposite: a weapon should be good or bad (make damages or too few damage) based on the skill of who is firing them.

[SleepTrgt]

In my opinion the arc is too high, it goes over most cover, there is no chance to defend yourself on caustic.
You fight one person, the whole other team might be shooting you if they would have lrms.
Maps change into circle the highest, because that's the only place you're safe!

My suggestion would be, Lower the arc by a big bit, maybe make them fly a bit faster straight ish with an arc thats just a bit higher then mechs themselfs. But when using Tag for example... the missiles will fly with an arc.
Or, just make lrms only be lockable to your own target lock, once again besides tag and narc etc (not Uav).

And maybe change Narc to have a damage cap again but only towards LRM dmg so that you wont get instagibbed on maps like Caustic, where there is no chance against the arc

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

RiggsIron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Since the game isnt following 'lore' anyway - allow mechs to all carry ECM and AMS.

All the whiners about people complaining about LRMs dont care that the game sucks for new players - and less new players = less $$.

As much as I like mechs and Battletech, I would never recommend anyone play this game as it is set up now. Unless they are an addict willing to spend a few hundred dollars and grind XP for 2 months and grind Cbills so they can afford mechs AND modules...anyone else is just going to get murdered over and over and quit in disgust.

Pls stay on topic. allowing to Carry multiple- up to 5 ams would be a step into the right direction either. But i would really prefer to make the lrms more usefull by changing their whole mechanic.


After the second ams every added ams will be everytime half a ton heavier. So the fifth ams would be 2 ton heavy

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Darn right if I stand in the open or far away from cover 120 Missiels will ruin my day. BIT THAT IS MY FAULT not the missile boat's.

I don't care about broken Link to an off site address. Or the opinions of anyone there. Competitive players should be arguing for Missiles to be made more competitive a weapon since most of them don't find them useful.

We are not talking about standing in the open.

http://metamechs.com...08/******-lrms/

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 17 November 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 November 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Totally quote this. I know you like BT TT.
I really would like a lmr and lock mechanics making lrms a more effective weapon.
In TT lrm is not a psychological weapons. Lrms make damages there, regardless of the skill's level of the hit/locked pilot.
It's not normal that weapon system to be considered good or bad depending on who is being hit by; it should be just the opposite: a weapon should be good or bad (make damages or too few damage) based on the skill of who is firing them.

Yeah, but on TT you don't have to whether the impacts. and to a degree on TT LRMs are a psych. You know how long it takes to tally all teh 5 point locations... Dread!

And I just cannot get behind any challenges using skill when a game is using a mouse as the interface. Point and click is easy to do. Even for a 48 year old.

[RiggsIron]

El Bandito, on 17 November 2014 - 02:52 AM, said:

.... Face it, the majority of the forumers have no issue with LRMs.
...

At least you are not aware the majority of players dont go to forums. Or the numbers of people that will try out a game, get stomped - and quit.

But hey at least a few elite players like LRMs right? That and people that enjoy the skills required to stand behind a hill and press R + missles and get damage and kills. I mean who really needs to move right? LRMs are skill!

[Joseph Mallan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 17 November 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

We are not talking about standing in the open.

Your problem if your pc or you decide that the link shouldnt work

Likely a corporate block as I am at work.

RiggsIron, on 17 November 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

At least you are not aware the majority of players dont go to forums. Or the numbers of people that will try out a game, get stomped - and quit.

But hey at least a few elite players like LRMs right? That and people that enjoy the skills required to stand behind a hill and press R + missles and get damage and kills. I mean who really needs to move right? LRMs are skill!

There is very little skill used in this game... or most games, a small amount of strategy, a dash of tactics. not a lot of higher brain functions used really.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Likely a corporate block as I am at work.

There is very little skill used in this game... or most games, a small amount of strategy, a dash of tactics. not a lot of higher brain functions used really.

******’ LRMs [color=white]

2

[/color]

This entry was posted in Balance on November 8, 2014 by GMan.

I feel that it is fitting that my first post in my brand-spankin-new website be about the thing I hate most in the game. Namely, Long Ranged Missiles. This weapon system has always presented the greatest balance issue, greater than brawling, sniping, poptarting, BESMing, laser vomiting, or any of the other imbalanced elements that have had to have been addressed throughout the course of MWO’s history. These recommendations, though, are not based on my vitriol for the weapon system. Hear me out. It’s gonna require multiple changes, but I think it can be a usable weapon, at least until PGI gets the free time to completely work the mechanic (which I think needs doing but is not the subject of this post).
Step 1: Make LRMs fire & forget. Huge buff, right? I know. Trust me, the rest of the steps will help balance it. But one of the hugest issues with using LRMs is that they have to be boated in order to be used effectively. Why is that? Because you have to hold your damn mouse over that box. Does that involve any skill at all? Nope! But it does prevent you from doing anything else with your time. That means you can’t shield, you can’t lead your other weapons properly (well, you can, but it’s a bit annoying), and you can’t look around for extra situational awareness. Among other things. Seriously, this will fix the main usability issue I see facing LRMs, and change it from a must-boat weapon to a legitimate supporting or secondary option.
Step 2: Adjusting Radar Deprivation and Target Decay. The first part of this is to make radar deprivation’s effect global and automatic on all mechs. So, once you and your team loses LoS, the missiles automatically stop tracking. There’s no additional time that it will spend tracking after your guys can’t see the enemy mech. Optionally, you can make it so that either the LRMs cannot reacquire, or they can. Either one would be fine, I think. Target Decay? That can make it so that your targeting will function the way it does now without Target Decay or Radar Deprivation being involved. So it’s not as ridiculously long as it is now with Target Decay, but it at least means that the enemy can’t break LoS momentarily and throw off your plans using stuff like the cables in the center of Terra Therma. And how will Radar Deprivation work now? Here’s my idea – make it so that for the first 1 or 2 seconds that you are within enemy LoS, you can’t be targeted. That would be awesome! Not only does it mean that you can trade against LRMs at short-medium range without having to worry about getting wrecked as hard, but you can coordinate flanks and sneak-attacks a lot better. Alternatively, just make it so LRM lock-on and target info gathering on you take longer. But I think that would be way lamer.
Step 3. The balance bits.

• Have LRMs launch at a certain velocity (100 m/s?) and accelerate to 200 m/s over their flight time, maybe peaking at around 500m.
  
• Reduce LRM impulse by a lot.
  
• Change all LRMs to spread the same amount, pinned to the current spread of, like, a LRM 15 (Artemis still decreases spread)
  
• Make it so that an enemy must be spotted by TAG or NARC or UAV in order for you to indirectly fire, otherwise you have to spot them yourself.
  
• Get rid of the thing where the LRM arc gets taller if the target is not in LoS.

I think that about does it (well no, not really, but it’s a good smattering of ideas). I’m not gonna go into huge details about all of Step 3, because it’s all been said and explained before and I don’t particularly want to repeat myself for the 6th time. The value of these changes should be evident.