114 replies to this topic

[Toast001]

Bulletsponge0, on 17 November 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

If LRMs are so bad, why do so many people use them?

If LRMs are so good, why don't more people use them?

On my timber wolf i switched out my lrms for streak srms. With the new clan active probe srms are deadly. Its kinda funny seeing people complain about me taking them out with 4 streak 6's. Either your a noob for using lrms or a noob using streaks.

[KraftySOT]

I think Battletech has ALOT of freedom. And I think MWO has the Henry Ford version of freedom.

"You can do anything you want, as long as its what you have to do."

If you want a Blue car and not a Black car...welp...to bad. If you want to have an LRM free game and have a large Grand Melee style brawl...you cant do that. Youre subject to whats available. The whims and fancies of 23 other people.

Ill do my Vassago Rain impression:

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

True but size mitigates those "plays" to a large degree. They also open the door for more counters. Two company sized forces, should contain several dedicated lances.

I mean imagine its steel panthers and youre playing a small battle, and one guy brings a rifle company and the other guy brings 4 armored cars in 1939 play. Thats just a bad set up. And if its on purpose, the guy taking the ACs is kind of a munchkins. Now those engagements absolutely happen and if you both choose to do that in a game, more power to you, that can be alot of fun. Throwing soviets at panzers can be enjoyable, and ive played plenty of lopsided scenarios. Gallipoli can only be fun if you enjoy losing the LEAST you can lose. If you enjoy just mitigating loses and playing a historical scenario.

In MWO you dont have all these outside options, so you get lopsided battles by accident and not by design. Though, the people attempting to make it lopsided in their favor, are doing it by design, yet the people who its not lopsided in their favor, fell into it entirely by accident.

Thus the frustration ensues.

Guess I'm part of the problem. I come here to kill your Mech. Not to do with style and grace. but to beat it to a messy pulp. It's how I like to play. And when it happens to me its perfectly acceptable cause well someone else likes to fight my way as well. it annoys me that some people don't want to let others play how they like. If it were up to me there would be no fast Mechs at all. Don't like em, not sturdy enough, not powerful enough, takes to long to get a kill. But I know guys who can do miracles in em, and I want those guys on my side cause we need good lights and good Fire Support!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 November 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Fut]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I think Battletech has ALOT of freedom. And I think MWO has the Henry Ford version of freedom.

"You can do anything you want, as long as its what you have to do."

If you want a Blue car and not a Black car...welp...to bad. If you want to have an LRM free game and have a large Grand Melee style brawl...you cant do that. Youre subject to whats available. The whims and fancies of 23 other people.

Well no ****. Why would you even expect the ability to dictate what your enemies will take into battle? Entitled, much?
Besides, if you want your grand Melee brawl without LRMs, hook up with others who share your dreams and have a private match.

[StalaggtIKE]

Josef Nader, on 17 November 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Why is it worse that an LRM boat is doing it when a gauss rifle, ERPPC, AC5s or even AC2 does the same job, but better?

Because it's easier to convince yourself that you were outplayed when killed by direct fire weapons. Where as a weapon with a flashing warning sign, slow travel time, unfocused damage and several hard and soft counters must be OP.

[-Halcyon-]

Toast001, on 17 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

This is the way I see it from my point of view. When I am getting pounded by hundreds of lrms I fault myself for being out of position. It's not like your not given a warning or they move at incredible speed or your not given a choice of buying mods to help you lose the missile lock. I would say screen Impact needs more of a nerf then the lrms themselves. I mean do you think Isis should tell the UN to nerf American air strikes, no it's just a reality of war.

If it was 1 or 2 guys raining LRMs on you, then yes you would have a point.
When 1 light spots you and everyone on their team fires their missiles from multiple places on the map, there is no realistic way to defend against that.

So no, with the universal shared targeting the way it is now, it's not your fault. It's the mechanics of the game.
I'm not going to blame myself for not wanting to have to hug every single wall and hide in every cave 24/7 just to avoid all the LRM spam.

Force LRM users to get their own line of sight locks, or force support mechs to use TAG/NARC/UAV for targeted indirect fire.

Edited by Halcyon201, 17 November 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Fut, on 17 November 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Well no ****. Why would you even expect the ability to dictate what your enemies will take into battle? Entitled, much?
Besides, if you want your grand Melee brawl without LRMs, hook up with others who share your dreams and have a private match.

It would be nice to have it facilitated beyond just a private match. I dont want anyone, myself included, to be told how they have to play to have their MOAR FUN. Were adults, we can decide that for ourselves.

Im just pointing out that PGI took on an IP. They get alot of the players from that IP along with it. One thing I really enjoyed and I think is universally enjoyed about the IP, is the ability to have the game you want to have. Options.

I could click to ban certain weapons in the last two MW titles. Could pick the map. Theres as a lobby. I had alot of things that the board game has. Options. The ability to fairly easily, have the game I wanted to have.

You cant do that here.

So theres frustration. I totally Bill Clinton the LRM haters pain. They have no choice in the matter. Its play this way or hit the highway.

Thats the dictation. All I want is less dictation.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

It would be nice to have it facilitated beyond just a private match. I dont want anyone, myself included, to be told how they have to play to have their MOAR FUN. Were adults, we can decide that for ourselves.

Im just pointing out that PGI took on an IP. They get alot of the players from that IP along with it. One thing I really enjoyed and I think is universally enjoyed about the IP, is the ability to have the game you want to have. Options.

I could click to ban certain weapons in the last two MW titles. Could pick the map. Theres as a lobby. I had alot of things that the board game has. Options. The ability to fairly easily, have the game I wanted to have.

You cant do that here.

So theres frustration. I totally Bill Clinton the LRM haters pain. They have no choice in the matter. Its play this way or hit the highway.

Thats the dictation. All I want is less dictation.

So what kind of option is it to have less LRMs in the game? A good one or a bad one? Cause what many want is to limits other player's options by limiting LRMs. I use 3 LRM5s on one Mech of Seven. I have no intention of making it so you cannot bring what you want. That is providing you with more options.

[KraftySOT]

Since were not ever getting a lobby.

It would be nice to LRMs always be marginally useful, but never overpowering, and never worth boating to the point you have no back up weapons, yet be utterly useless in seriously competitive play.

As said. I have no idea how to do that.

But I totally understand why people hate them, and it is really annoying im sure, if youre one of those people, to be forced repeatedly into games where youre getting the thing you hate, on a regular basis.

Youre going to discover on the internet, people a fickle, and whiny. If they perceive something as low skill, and die to it, theyre going to lose their tops. Theyre in a bathrobe with a bong next to them. Come on man its 2014.

So if you always want a tiny hardcore player base. Fine. Thats what youll have until a slow slide into obscurity.

If youd like to see a much larger playerbase, more money, which probably means more "stuff" in MWO, id think youd want LRMs to still fulfill their role, but not be as feast or famine as they are.

Where its either...HEY A NOOB IS IN THE OPEN EVERYONE FIRE...or THE MAGIC JESUS BOX RUINS COMPETITIVE PLAY!

There has to be a happy medium.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

So what kind of option is it to have less LRMs in the game? A good one or a bad one? Cause what many want is to limits other player's options by limiting LRMs. I use 3 LRM5s on one Mech of Seven. I have no intention of making it so you cannot bring what you want. That is providing you with more options.

Well im no AAA game designer, but id imagine if there was one map where LRMs were pretty much entirely useless...and you could choose which map you played on...

That map would be played alot.

Im sure there are tens of thousands of ways of accomplishing this, since both the last mechwarrior games had it, and it didnt seem to effect anyone much. However there wasnt the same level of lrm power there is here, so you didnt see games often with those as banned weapons. It was usually UAC20s and Gauss and whatnot.

Edit:

And of course...nothing stops anyone from dropping on those other maps. And its not even a real "no lrm" match, its just a defacto "no lrm" match, because its really understood, thats why youre choosing this map. Because you dont want to get LRMed.

You had that, and have that, option in most other iterations of the IP. Just sayin.

Edited by KraftySOT, 17 November 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Since were not ever getting a lobby.

It would be nice to LRMs always be marginally useful, but never overpowering, and never worth boating to the point you have no back up weapons, yet be utterly useless in seriously competitive play.

As said. I have no idea how to do that.

But I totally understand why people hate them, and it is really annoying im sure, if youre one of those people, to be forced repeatedly into games where youre getting the thing you hate, on a regular basis.

Youre going to discover on the internet, people a fickle, and whiny. If they perceive something as low skill, and die to it, theyre going to lose their tops. Theyre in a bathrobe with a bong next to them. Come on man its 2014.

So if you always want a tiny hardcore player base. Fine. Thats what youll have until a slow slide into obscurity.

If youd like to see a much larger playerbase, more money, which probably means more "stuff" in MWO, id think youd want LRMs to still fulfill their role, but not be as feast or famine as they are.

Where its either...HEY A NOOB IS IN THE OPEN EVERYONE FIRE...or THE MAGIC JESUS BOX RUINS COMPETITIVE PLAY!

There has to be a happy medium.

That Crafty is just a stupid thing to to want.

It should ALWAYS be "HEY A NOOB IS IN THE OPEN EVERYONE FIRE!" cause he is a dumb juicy target deserving to be blown up!

Even when it's me!

[Golden Vulf]

Toast001, on 17 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

This is the way I see it from my point of view. When I am getting pounded by hundreds of lrms I fault myself for being out of position. It's not like your not given a warning or they move at incredible speed or your not given a choice of buying mods to help you lose the missile lock. I would say screen Impact needs more of a nerf then the lrms themselves. I mean do you think Isis should tell the UN to nerf American air strikes, no it's just a reality of war.

Sometimes it's the fault of the guy standing on a ridge above you that gets target locked, and then moves out of the way as the rain meant for him sweeps down and hits you.

[KraftySOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 November 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

That Crafty is just a stupid thing to to want.

It should ALWAYS be "HEY A NOOB IS IN THE OPEN EVERYONE FIRE!" cause he is a dumb juicy target deserving to be blown up!

Even when it's me!

Thats a horrible way to keep that noob around long enough for him to become, not a noob. If there was a place he could go, something he could do, that didnt require grinding or hitting the forums for, to avoid that helpless situation. He'd stick around longer to get "to the deep end of the pool".

The TT has a distinct advantage in player base, because war games and the such are the realm of grognards, and we step over steep learning curves like they arent even there.

In a PC game...a F2P one...its just bad to have a constant stream of LRM complaints for three years, with various stages of LRMaggedons.

I feel you. I do. But, I just dont think its healthy.

And still the LRMs arent competitive in the deep end of the pool, to the point of non use.

Theres got to be a way to get them to be just as effective in both ends of the pool. And without turning noobs to ashe so frustratingly that they dont come back.

Edited by KraftySOT, 17 November 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Kensaisama]

Bring AMS they said, so I brought AMS and I was the only one trying to hold back a tidal wave with a cocktail umbrella.

[bluepiglet]

[-Halcyon-]

Kensaisama, on 17 November 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Bring AMS they said, so I brought AMS and I was the only one trying to hold back a tidal wave with a cocktail umbrella.

Because everyone else knows AMS doesn't do jack against LRM spam.

[Angel of Annihilation]

There is never a way to 100% avoid LRMs so your theory is wrong. Sure sometimes you might find you have did something boneheaded and left yourself wide open to getting pummeled by LRMs but more often, your just trying to engage the enemy while taking a massive pounding.

ECM was a great counter to this providing you had a good ECM pilot/mech on your team that actively worked to provide a screen where needed, however, the increase in range of BAP totally broke ECM mechs capability to do this role so we are pretty much back to LRM Online.

[Fut]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Thats a horrible way to keep that noob around long enough for him to become, not a noob. If there was a place he could go, something he could do, that didnt require grinding or hitting the forums for, to avoid that helpless situation. He'd stick around longer to get "to the deep end of the pool".

If the noob had any brainpower at all, they'd realize their mistake and attempt to avoid that situation in the future.
Why must everything be a marathon of hand-holding these days?

Viktor Drake, on 17 November 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

There is never a way to 100% avoid LRMs so your theory is wrong. Sure sometimes you might find you have did something boneheaded and left yourself wide open to getting pummeled by LRMs but more often, your just trying to engage the enemy while taking a massive pounding.

If you've engaged the enemy and the LRMs are too prevalent - you engaged at the wrong time, in the wrong manner, or in the wrong location. Break off the attack, and try something else.
The games are 15mins long, you don't have to charge headlong into every encounter.

Edited by Fut, 17 November 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Kensaisama]

Viktor Drake, on 17 November 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

There is never a way to 100% avoid LRMs so your theory is wrong. Sure sometimes you might find you have did something boneheaded and left yourself wide open to getting pummeled by LRMs but more often, your just trying to engage the enemy while taking a massive pounding.

ECM was a great counter to this providing you had a good ECM pilot/mech on your team that actively worked to provide a screen where needed, however, the increase in range of BAP totally broke ECM mechs capability to do this role so we are pretty much back to LRM Online.

Wait what? We have ECM in game?

[Josef Nader]

KraftySOT, on 17 November 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

It would be nice to LRMs always be marginally useful, but never overpowering, and never worth boating to the point you have no back up weapons, yet be utterly useless in seriously competitive play.

Krafty, let me introduce you to a few of my friends; the Valkyrie, the Whitworth, the Trebuchet, the Dervish, the Yeoman, the Catapult, the Archer, and the Longbow.

And those are just the Inner Sphere chassis I can think of off the top of my head.

The concept you're railing against is a core aspect of Battletech and the base design of many iconic fan-favorite mechs. You're demonstrably wrong when you say this shouldn't be a valid tactic/build. It's not a Battletech Game™ unless the LRM boat is a viable build, and effective at IDF. If you don't want to play a Battletech Game™, that's fine, but there are plenty of games that aren't Battletech Games™. Go play those. I want my Battletech Game™.

Edited by Josef Nader, 17 November 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Fut]

Josef Nader, on 17 November 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

If you don't want to play a Battletech Game™, that's fine, but there are plenty of games that aren't Battletech Games™. Go play those. I want my Battletech Game™.

Definitely this.

Edited by Fut, 17 November 2014 - 12:24 PM.