99 replies to this topic

[Moonlander]

Kanatta Jing, on 19 November 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Well... The only practical use I have observed is buying and selling stock without having to pay income tax with every transaction.

Some people like to hoard it and hope it turns into a real currency and will therefor inflate rapidly, like all those people who have money invested in gold and ramble on about how all of the worlds economic problems would vanish if we went back to gold backed currency. By which they mean their own economic problems of course.

Now here in this thread we have someone who is proposing a merchant take the risk of accepting this volatile... stuff.

With every merchant take that risk, bitcoins will rapidly rise in value. The risk of course is that the merchant could be stuck holding a large sum of money that has turned worthless over night.

Ahh ok. Yeah, the article I remember reading a while back was exactly that. People were stuck with all these worthless bitcoins and they were sending him death threats or something. Yeah... thanks for the rundown!

I would definitely not use it and wouldn't want PGI to either. Too much risk involved, it seems.

[Khobai]

Quote

Think of bitcoins as a currency that isn't backed by any nation or bank...

gold/silver is the same thing. except unlike bitcoins it has actual value.

bitcoins are popular now because theyre not really regulated/taxed by governments, but once that changes, their popularity will decline and their value will plummet drastically.

[Abivard]

Kirkland Langue, on 19 November 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

The answers in the other thread still apply: convert the bit coin yourself and use that money to buy mechstuff.

This way those poor impoverished CC companies like MC and VISA don't miss out on their minuscule fees they charge and our able to let their kids have margarine on their sawdust bread for dinner. Don't take the food out of the mouths of the starving children of CC companies executives.

[stratagos]

Abivard, on 19 November 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

This way those poor impoverished CC companies like MC and VISA don't miss out on their minuscule fees they charge and our able to let their kids have margarine on their sawdust bread for dinner. Don't take the food out of the mouths of the starving children of CC companies executives.

Your principled stand against transaction fees is noted. I'm sure the fees that would be saved by PGI *totally* justify the hassle and risk involved in accepting - and trying to convert into a form of capital they can actually utilize in operating their business - a digital currency like bitcoin

[Elizander]

I don't understand Bitcoin at all.

[IceSerpent]

I don't get the point of bitcoin either - looks like "monopoly money" kind of currency that is neither backed by anything nor tied to any commodities. Just out of curiosity, if a vendor accepts bitcoin, how do they figure out the price tag?

[Vassago Rain]

lol no

[Soulscour]

Elizander, on 19 November 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I don't understand Bitcoin at all.

That is the key to it's success!

[Golden Vulf]

Soulscour, on 19 November 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

That is the key to it's success!

Quoted for truth.

[Karl Marlow]

What I remember about bitcoins was the craze when they were first introduced on how you mined them. Basically you ran some sort of equation on your computer repeatedly trying to find some kind of keycode identifier. Certain numbers were Bitcoins and you basically could earn bitcoins just by letting your computer run these equations constantly.

The argument for them was that it would be a stable form of currency since once they were all found there would be a set number of bitcoins in the world. What was never explained to me was what was giving these Bitcoins value in the first place.

[Redshift2k5]

Barking up the wrong tree.
Tell UltimatePay to accept bitcoin.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I forget the details but transactions are posted in public registers. if you host one, you will automatically generate bitcoins at a very slow rate as payment.

[Kilo 40]

Bitcoin miners made me go with an nvidia GPU rather than an AMD card, because they drove the prices sky high.

[InspectorG]

MischiefSC, on 19 November 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

They should also accept tulip bulbs.

Nah, people accept Fed. paper...thats worth lots of 'trust and faith'. Until it isnt.

Test of Bitcoin will be after the switch to a new reserve currency. It may be worth owning a few. Do so also own PM, but guvments like to confiscate shiny metals when convenient.

[Xenon Codex]

Foxtrot01, on 19 November 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

I wish bitcoin would just die already.

Electronic currencies like Bitcoin/Litecoin are the future. Even Mr. Fiat Money himself has acknowledged that inevitability (a.k.a former Fed chief Alan Greenspan). No reason not to accept them at payment, it all instantly converts to USD or CND for the fiat bean counters.

[InspectorG]

ThomasMarik, on 19 November 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

The argument for them was that it would be a stable form of currency since once they were all found there would be a set number of bitcoins in the world. What was never explained to me was what was giving these Bitcoins value in the first place.

'Value' is a human concept and open to interpretation. Historically, gold retains value because its limited and humans tend to, in various degrees, want it.

Compare that to fiat paper (based on what Central Bankers say its worth...in order to control the market)
The US dollar is the world's Reserve currency and all other nations have to buy US dollars in order to TRADE things like oil/gas...
This gives the US the Meta currency no one else can duplicate...so far.
We use if to force favorable trade and war.

Now, how does Bitcoin fit in?
Its 'value' is that it cannot be diluted by QE once all the coins are mined and its transactions are not subject to government interference...in theory. Hence all the propaganda of it being used in the Drug Trade(as if people didnt buy drugs in cash...big tell there...guvement hates competition- guvements owned by banks)

First the conspiracy crackpots but now many mainstream theorists admit that there is a real push for a new 'basket' Reserve currency. Hence the BRICS nations and the US/British/Israeli involvement in Ukraine.

People complain about Bitcoin not having value because it doesnt have any buying power yet. True but they usually dont realize the only thing giving paper dollars its value is because the banks say it has value, and the US can ARTY strike anyone who refuses to use it.

We live in interesting times, hedge accordingly...so they say.

[InspectorG]

XenonCx, on 19 November 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

Electronic currencies like Bitcoin/Litecoin are the future. Even Mr. Fiat Money himself has acknowledged that inevitability (a.k.a former Fed chief Alan Greenspan). No reason not to accept them at payment, it all instantly converts to USD or CND for the fiat bean counters.

Most people dont realize that most US dollars in 'existence' are stored on hard drives.
Most dont understand fiat, QE, Planned Economy, etc.

I have many Free-market Conservative(USA) friends/family who gripe about the Free-Market but simply dont understand its impossible to have one with Central Banking. I myself think as long as there is a hegemon, free markets are a fiction.

Barter is as close as you can currently get. If 2 people value Bitcoins, well, they themselves are set to go, at least.

[Kilo 40]

"I want bitcoin to die in a fire"

Libertarians love it because it pushes the same buttons as their gold fetish and it doesn't look like a "Fiat currency". You can visualize it as some kind of scarce precious data resource, sort of a digital equivalent of gold. Nation-states don't control the supply of it, so it promises to bypass central banks.

But there are a number of huge down-sides. Here's a link-farm to the high points:

Mining BtC has a carbon footprint from hell (as they get more computationally expensive to generate, electricity consumption soars). This essay has some questionable numbers, but the underlying principle is sound.

Bitcoin mining software is now being distributed as malware because using someone else's computer to mine BitCoins is easier than buying a farm of your own mining hardware.

Bitcoin violates Gresham's law: Stolen electricity will drive out honest mining. (So the greatest benefits accrue to the most ruthless criminals.)

Bitcoin's utter lack of regulation permits really hideous markets to emerge, in commodities like assassination (and drugs and child pornography).

It's also inherently damaging to the fabric of civil society. You think our wonderful investment bankers aren't paying their fair share of taxes? Bitcoin is pretty much designed for tax evasion. Moreover, The Gini coefficient of the Bitcoin economy is ghastly, and getting worse, to an extent that makes a sub-Saharan African kleptocracy look like a socialist utopia, and the "if this goes on" linear extrapolations imply that BtC will badly damage stable governance, not to mention redistributive taxation systems and social security/pension nets if its value continues to soar (as it seems designed to do due to its deflationary properties).


EDIT: for the love of god PGI...please make it so I can copy and paste something without the forum thinking I want to copy the color as well. This is the ONLY forum I've ever encountered with that issue.

Edited by Kilo 40, 19 November 2014 - 11:02 PM.

[Sirius Drake]

Go away with this pseudo wannabe currency.

[Scratx]

IceSerpent, on 19 November 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

I don't get the point of bitcoin either - looks like "monopoly money" kind of currency that is neither backed by anything nor tied to any commodities. Just out of curiosity, if a vendor accepts bitcoin, how do they figure out the price tag?

This is funny.

You think the USD is backed by anything?

Or the Euro, or just about any fiat currency currently in circulation?


I'm not defending Bitcoin here, but if you really think those greenbacks in your hands can be redeemed for gold or anything else, really, you're dreaming. They're worth exactly how much other people are willing to give it value. Just like Bitcoin when it comes down to it. People believe it has value, so they trade it accordingly.

One of the fundamental differences between Bitcoin and the fiat currency central banks issue is that Bitcoin is limited to not having more than a set amount of bitcoins in existence in its entire lifespan. There is no such restriction for central bank issued fiat currency. I'm sure you can do the math on why people might like Bitcoin... just look up the Weimar Republic and its history.


And now I'm done with the subject. Have fun.