99 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

This thread is a perfect example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. People can use words like fiat and hegemon and have no clue what they are really talking about.

[Killstorm999999]

Khobai, on 19 November 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

gold/silver is the same thing. except unlike bitcoins it has actual value.

gold/silver has value? You can build a house with it? You can eat it? No, gold and silver is just as 'useless' as bitcoins, but people attach value to it because of its scarcity, shininess, and convenience.

Hey, you know what else also has scarcity? Bit coins. They may have a learning curve, so that impacts their convenience, but once you figure it out, the advantages of bit coins over regularly currency are indisputable.

[Sarlic]

RG Notch, on 20 November 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

This thread is a perfect example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. People can use words like fiat and hegemon and have no clue what they are really talking about.

Edit: misunderstood.

Edited by Sarlic, 20 November 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sarlic, on 20 November 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Really?

Explain this then.

https://blockchain.i...YvKJhE4SedKpb6E

I will give you a hint: multiple adresses across oversea.

Looks to me like someone using Bitcoinfog (or another mixing service) to transfer bitcoins to their (insert darknet marketplace here) account, and then buying stuff with them

[Kilo 40]

Sarlic, on 20 November 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Really?

Explain this then.

https://blockchain.i...YvKJhE4SedKpb6E

I will give you a hint: multiple adresses across oversea.

huh? what does that have to do with what he said?

[Mechteric]

haha its cute people think BitCoin is a thing

[Sarlic]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Looks to me like someone using Bitcoinfog (or another mixing service) to transfer bitcoins to their (insert darknet marketplace here) account, and then buying stuff with them

It's from a hacker who used to persuade victims called Synolocker. Locking and encrypting whole NAS devices.
People were actually stupid to pay 0.6 BTC each.

Bottom line: this sh1t is heavily being used by criminals and hackers. Any person who thinks this is legimate is stupid.

Kilo 40, on 20 November 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

huh? what does that have to do with what he said?

ah....i probaly misunderstood him

Apologies notch.

Edited by Sarlic, 20 November 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Sarlic, on 20 November 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

ah....i probaly misunderstood him

Apologies notch.

ok. I thought maybe I missed something.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sarlic, on 20 November 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

It's from a hacker who used to persuade victims called Synolocker. Locking and encrypting whole NAS devices.
People were actually stupid to pay 0.6 BTC each.

Bottom line: this sh1t is heavily being used by criminals and hackers. Any person who thinks this is legimate is stupid.

I don't think its legitimate, but its certainly useful. Not all illegitimate activities are wrong.

(hacking and encrypting other peoples NAS and then forcing them to pay you to unlock it IS wrong though)

[Sarlic]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

I don't think its legitimate, but its certainly useful. Not all illegitimate activities are wrong.

(hacking and encrypting other peoples NAS and then forcing them to pay you to unlock it IS wrong though)

True, but i still dont like it... It;s too easy to hide things.

The example i provided is just top of that iceberg.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sarlic, on 20 November 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

True, but i still dont like it... It;s too easy to hide things.

The example i provided is just top of that iceberg.

We need the ability to hide things while we have r3tarded corrupt govornments.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 20 November 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You think the USD is backed by anything?

The USD is backed by something though. Its backed by the economic production of the US and the agreement to exchange those goods for USD. Theres also the fact that no country in the world can buy crude oil without first converting to USD. And crude oil is the real currency of the world if you think about it.

Just because a currency is fiat doesnt mean it isnt backed. The USD is absolutely backed. Just not the traditional backing of gold and silver. Which means the dollar is subject to inflation because its value isnt fixed to a commodity.

Can the USD hyperinflate to worthlessness? possibly. But its highly unlikely. The treasury has ways of manipulating the value of the dollar so that cant happen. For example, the treasury has access to vast amounts of gold/silver securities which they lend out at interest to prop up the dollar. The legalized ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking is what keeps the dollar afloat.

Quote

Whatever anyone tells you, Bitcoin's primary use is as an easy to launder online currency for the purchasing of nefarious things, and the chances of it dying while prohibition is still a thing are negligable.

This. Once governments start regulating or even outright banning bitcoin its popularity and value will plummet. Anyone buying into bitcoins in the long term is a fool. Although you can probably make money at it as a short term investment.

Honestly if you want to invest in something intelligent, look at investing in silver. Silver is only $16 an ounce now.

Edited by Khobai, 20 November 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[NextGame]

bitcoin is something that im more than happy to be a thing that happens to other people.

[RetroActive]

Deltron Zero, on 20 November 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

gold/silver has value? You can build a house with it? You can eat it? No, gold and silver is just as 'useless' as bitcoins, but people attach value to it because of its scarcity, shininess, and convenience.

Hey, you know what else also has scarcity? Bit coins. They may have a learning curve, so that impacts their convenience, but once you figure it out, the advantages of bit coins over regularly currency are indisputable.

Well...actually, you could build a house with gold/silver. It would be a very expensive house, though.

[Logan Hawke]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

We need the ability to hide things while we have r3tarded corrupt govornments.

Because the government cares enough about you to to bother interfering if you're not endangering society

[Khobai]

Quote

gold/silver has value? You can build a house with it? You can eat it? No, gold and silver is just as 'useless' as bitcoins, but people attach value to it because of its scarcity, shininess, and convenience.

gold/silver definitely have value. they have innumerable uses in high tech industry.

gold is the second or third best electrical conductor (copper might be second i cant remember). but unlike copper gold doesnt corrode. so almost every connection in high tech goods is copper thats electroplated in very thin layers of gold.

and silver is the best electrical conductor there is. period. so its used extensively in electronics as well. Especially in the cheap chinese made crap because they dont want to pay for gold. silver does tend to corrode but the chinese dont care if they turn out crap as long as dumb americans dont know better lol.

so no its not just that people think theyre "shiny". Those metals have essential properties that no other metals have and are absolutely crucial to the production of high tech goods.

can a bitcoin conduct electricity? no.

Edited by Khobai, 20 November 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Wow, so many people are so far off in here. Luddites the lot of ya.

Bitcoin is just another option. It's not gonna eat your baby. And if you go through coinbase or bitpay, the merchant doesn't even see bitcoin. I pour in bitcoin, cash fills up PGIs wallets and the volatility makes no difference to PGI.

[Paramemetic]

Fiat is op please nerf - bitcoiners

[Scratx]

Khobai, on 20 November 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

The USD is backed by something though. Its backed by the economic production of the US and the agreement to exchange those goods for USD. Theres also the fact that no country in the world can buy crude oil without first converting to USD. And crude oil is the real currency of the world if you think about it.

Just because a currency is fiat doesnt mean it isnt backed. The USD is absolutely backed. Just not the traditional backing of gold and silver. Which means the dollar is subject to inflation because its value isnt fixed to a commodity.

Can the USD hyperinflate to worthlessness? possibly. But its highly unlikely. The treasury has ways of manipulating the value of the dollar so that cant happen. For example, the treasury has access to vast amounts of gold/silver securities which they lend out at interest to prop up the dollar. The legalized ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking is what keeps the dollar afloat.

I've addressed in an earlier post the "backed by economy" argument. Basically, that's the same as saying it's backed by the ability to buy goods and services from that nation. Please note that I was trying to keep the argument mostly generalized on fiat currencies and not on the USD specifically (I did mention the Euro and others).

Now, you also mentioned the Petrodollar and, implicitly, the USD status as a reserve currency. That's something specific to the USD right now (well, somewhat specific, there's been other reserve currencies in the past) , but reserve currencies come and go. Regarding the Petrodollar, if you are paying attention to the news, you'll notice Russia, China and other BRICS nations setting up schemes to enable convertibility of their currencies for international trade wholly skipping the USD, as well as direct deals to buying/selling hydrocarbons with their respective currencies (again, skipping the USD). This trend isn't likely to slow down.

That doesn't mean the USD is suddenly going to lose its value, far from it, but relying on its reserve currency status to do whatever you want is the recipe to ensuring everyone dumps it as a reserve currency.


Now, I dunno about most of you, but I can't say I'm really interested in discussing this subject. It isn't even what the topic is about, as it's morphed beyond bitcoin as a payment option. Can we go back to that?

[IceSerpent]

Scratx, on 19 November 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

This is funny.

You think the USD is backed by anything?

Or the Euro, or just about any fiat currency currently in circulation?

I didn't mean "backed" as in gold standard, but as in "associated with overall wealth of the country that issues that currency". The part I don't understand about bitcoin is that it doesn't seem to be associated with any material wealth, so how do people figure its value?

Deltron Zero, on 20 November 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

gold/silver has value? You can build a house with it? You can eat it? No, gold and silver is just as 'useless' as bitcoins, but people attach value to it because of its scarcity, shininess, and convenience.

gold and silver are commodities that are used to make all sorts of things (jewelry, electronics, etc.), so value is definitely there.

Quote

Hey, you know what else also has scarcity? Bit coins. They may have a learning curve, so that impacts their convenience, but once you figure it out, the advantages of bit coins over regularly currency are indisputable.

Scarcity only comes into play if there is a demand. I just can't figure out what generates that demand in case of bitcoins.