63 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

cdlord, on 20 November 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Advanced tech you say? Clans superior you say? Betty sounds the same... The cockpits look comparative (was hoping for more Trek vs Wars in that regard). Bulkier visuals (miniaturization is the hallmark of advanced technology after all).

That's because Betty has been around for a long time. Everyone knows Betty was Aleksandr Kerensky's mistress. That is how she ended up in all the Stat League mechs. After the Exodus, the IS kept her voice because they couldn't figure out how to change it. The Clans kept Betty in to honor Kerensky's memory.

As for the cockpit scheme, it is the default Star League setup. IS can't figure out how to change it, Clans figure if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

There ya go, a total BS answer to your question

[CDLord HHGD]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 November 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

That's because Betty has been around for a long time. Everyone knows Betty was Aleksandr Kerensky's mistress. That is how she ended up in all the Stat League mechs. After the Exodus, the IS kept her voice because they couldn't figure out how to change it. The Clans kept Betty in to honor Kerensky's memory.

As for the cockpit scheme, it is the default Star League setup. IS can't figure out how to change it, Clans figure if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

There ya go, a total BS answer to your question

Awesome! I can sleep again!

[Logan Hawke]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 November 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

That's because Betty has been around for a long time. Everyone knows Betty was Aleksandr Kerensky's mistress. That is how she ended up in all the Stat League mechs. After the Exodus, the IS kept her voice because they couldn't figure out how to change it. The Clans kept Betty in to honor Kerensky's memory.

As for the cockpit scheme, it is the default Star League setup. IS can't figure out how to change it, Clans figure if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

There ya go, a total BS answer to your question

I don't know about that, I think the IS kept Betty to mock that coward Kerensky for fleeing because 'waaaaah too haaaaaard I'm going to go make a failed totally perfect society'.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 20 November 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Logan Hawke, on 20 November 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

I don't know about that, I think the IS kept Betty to mock that coward Kerensky for fleeing because 'waaaaah too haaaaaard I'm going to go make a failed totally perfect society'.

Maybe, seems legit.

Me personally, I picture an IS tech looking at a mech computer core and scratching his head. Kind of like Grandpa trying to stop the VCRs clock from flashing 12:00, and failing miserably.

The Inner Sphere lost the service manual for all their mechs a LONG time ago Lol.

[Logan Hawke]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 November 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

Maybe, seems legit.

Me personally, I picture an IS tech looking at a mech computer core and scratching his head. Kind of like Grandpa trying to stop the VCRs clock from flashing 12:00, and failing miserably.

The Inner Sphere lost the service manual for all their mechs a LONG time ago Lol.

Well, for all the star league ones sure, but they did manage to make their own in the midst of killing each other

[Sjorpha]

I'm also quite annoyed by the size discrepancies, I hope there will be a pass to size all weapons properly across the board sometime. Mounting a big weapon SHOULD have the downside of enlarging your hitbox, that's a good thing IMO.

IMO it's not the Mist Lynx that has too big weapons, it's the other lights and mediums that have too small.

That said, I find the Mist Lynx really ugly, which have more to do with the oversized apelike torso than the weapons. It's funny cause the Ice Ferret is the opposite, tiny torso and huge diaper. Next to each other they look like two characters from an old school cartoon.

[Bishop Steiner]

just cuz it hasn't been addressed..and because frothing nerdrage over "forum etiquette" is popcorn-worthy.

[Navid A1]

How about this:

Spoiler

Edited by Navid A1, 20 December 2015 - 12:20 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 November 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Yes, I know, I have brought this up before. Even got a polite answer, some half a year ago about it. And yes, I am considered, accurately or not, to be a White Knight, by the detractors of PGI in most things.

And yes, one could say there are higher functionality issues to consider, CW, etc. And that is true, except now, we have an example of where the inability of the Modelers to maintain any consistent scale has severely impacted the overall usability of a mech.

The Myst Lynx. Works fine as a spotter, or in a few other niche roles. But it is, undeniable, that the weapons attached to the arms are so dramatically out of scale, and so disproportionately huge, as to actually cripple the mech, outside of those niche, non direct confrontation roles.



Compare the AC2s on the FS9-H Firestarter, the LCT-PB Locust and MLX. On the 2 IS mechs, the weapon is scarcely larger than a Machine Gun (despite being 12 times the mass). On the Mist Lynx it is MASSIVELY larger (though it does look pretty stinking fierce, lol)

Now compare the PPCs. The Firestarter has a dinky one, the size of a medium laser, ludicrously small. The one on the Locust is noticeably more massive, and on the Mist Lynx? Again, it's like it's carrying a massive anti drop ship cannon, in comparison.

On all of them, the medium laser lens is close enough to not really be a big deal, but the bolt on housing for the Mist Lynx is again, HUGE.

And in the case of the Mist Lynx, since ALL it's weapons are arm mounted, this does indeed completely negate it's ability to compete with direct fire/short range builds.

Mind you, with CW and the like on the table, atm, I am NOT asking PGI to drop everything and rescale all the weapons this very moment.

But is it unreasonable to ask for them to take this into consideration for future releases, especially as this was brought to their attention MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE PAST?!?!?!

Anyhow, PGI, thank you for the game, and your time, but please, please look into this?

Honestly I hope they don't ever 'uniform' scale the weapons. Though, I think they need to rescale the weapons based on the chassis so we at least avoid ridiculously large PPCs on lights and tiny weapon stubs on other mechs. People were worried about a lot of the variable weapon geometry and the weapon scaling issues it would bring, example being the Awesome which I actually find looks pretty good with the new PPCs because they were scaled correctly and the geometry was designed to fit the mech's aesthetic.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 December 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 20 December 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

Honestly I hope they don't ever 'uniform' scale the weapons. Though, I think they need to rescale the weapons based on the chassis so we at least avoid ridiculously large PPCs on lights and tiny weapon stubs on other mechs. People were worried about a lot of the variable weapon geometry and the weapon scaling issues it would bring, example being the Awesome which I actually find looks pretty good with the new PPCs because they were scaled correctly and the geometry was designed to fit the mech's aesthetic.

OK, her'es the thing... when a 20 ton mech has 1/3 of it's mass devoted to on egun...say a 7 ton PPC? It SHOULD look ridiculously large, because it IS.

[MauttyKoray]

Big yes, ridiculously huge no. There were many manufacturers and designs of each weapon. An assault carrying a PPC wasn't the same as a Light carrying one. While I agree that things do need a better scaling, I don't want an old school Awesome's PPC hanging off the Locust. Scale is important but so is Aesthetic in a video game.

IMO of the above picture, the PPC the locust is carrying is fine, meanwhile it should also be the one used on the Lynx. The one of the Lynx is what we should see on the Firestarter.

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 20 December 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Big yes, ridiculously huge no. There were many manufacturers and designs of each weapon. An assault carrying a PPC wasn't the same as a Light carrying one. While I agree that things do need a better scaling, I don't want an old school Awesome's PPC hanging off the Locust. Scale is important but so is Aesthetic in a video game.

IMO of the above picture, the PPC the locust is carrying is fine, meanwhile it should also be the one used on the Lynx. The one of the Lynx is what we should see on the Firestarter.

if the PPC on the locust weighed 1.5-2 tons, it might be OK.

Different manufacturers can alter shapes and proportions, but 7 tons is still 7 tons. Yes, 7 tons of lead is a smaller package than 7 tons of feathers, but when comparing apples to apples? The differences are minor. And if one could, on a military vehicle make a 7 ton gun half the size every other version of it was? Everyone would buy only that smaller version.

Aesthetics take realism into consideration. Whip antennae autocannons and PPCs don't look good, IMO, sorry.

See, you might want to rescind that "Vote for Bishop" thing now.....

[MauttyKoray]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

if the PPC on the locust weighed 1.5-2 tons, it might be OK.

Different manufacturers can alter shapes and proportions, but 7 tons is still 7 tons. Yes, 7 tons of lead is a smaller package than 7 tons of feathers, but when comparing apples to apples? The differences are minor. And if one could, on a military vehicle make a 7 ton gun half the size every other version of it was? Everyone would buy only that smaller version.

Aesthetics take realism into consideration. Whip antennae autocannons and PPCs don't look good, IMO, sorry.

See, you might want to rescind that "Vote for Bishop" thing now.....

Haha not at all, like I said I don't agree with you 100% of the time. I prefer a combination of aesthetics and realism since its a game. The PPC on the Lynx looks silly, and it would look absolutely terrible on the Locust. Meanwhile the PPC on the Firestarter just shouldn't even exist, its so terrible looking...

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 December 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I miss this topic. And tired of the Scout QQ...so rise, from the dead, RISE I SAY!!!!

[Dirty Starfish]

While we're at it, I wish my Dragon's arm was back to it's old size. That thing is just unnecessary.

[Juodas Varnas]

Dirty Starfish, on 20 April 2016 - 09:58 PM, said:

While we're at it, I wish my Dragon's arm was back to it's old size. That thing is just unnecessary.

I wish the Dragon's arm was high-mounted like in the TROs and old miniatures, instead of the elbowed version (that's been used for the Grand Dragon) we have now.

[MechWarrior849305]

Man, overall scale of MECHs is out of whack, which MUST be addressed inbefore weapon rescaling. You can't have consistency in weapon geometry if you fail in basic proportions, you know.

All mechs in game has to have proportional amount of volume first (in basic mech form, whithout weapon hitboxes). So, 20 ton mech, for example MUST have height/width/thickness accordingly calculated as (20/100)^0.3333=0.5848 of an Atlas (assuming Atlas is a reference. We can take any other mech as reference for example). If you have some more width in mech geometry, then it should have less thickness/height, if mech is a bit taller it has to be somewhat thinner and so on, while total volume must be the same. And this volume scaling MUST be consistent.

With this basic logic implemented you can ask for weapon rescaling.

Edited by MechWarrior849305, 20 April 2016 - 10:48 PM.

[TyphonCh]

Juodas Varnas, on 20 April 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

I wish the Dragon's arm was high-mounted like in the TROs and old miniatures, instead of the elbowed version (that's been used for the Grand Dragon) we have now.

And asymmetrical mech would be so badass. And it would definitely make the Dragon unique without making it overpowered. I'd post the pic but my phone won't let me :S

[Gryphorim]

When raising the issue of consistent scale, remember that the firestarter was the last mech made before PGI stating consistent weapon scale a goal. In fact PGI made this statement after comparisons were made between the Banshee's and Firestarter's PPCs.
Clan ACs are LBX autocannons with "solid" ammo, so comparing the actually bulkier c-LBX AC to an IS AC2 (on a mech from before scale consistency pledge made) isn't exactly a fair argument.
Any comparison regarding the bulk-boxes of a Popeye Mist-Lynx is justified, but the arms of a MLynx are probably due to the big-a$$ boxes on the original art, but in this case i say fire away.
I cannot remember launch order of mechs, but the firestarter and all mechs prior to it are still unchanged for consistent weapon scale, unless they are an updated classic.

The great rescaling would be the correct time to systematically address this issue, as it has the potential to mess up weapon scale consistency a second time. Interestingly, when asked about the rescale process, PGI devs stated that weapons are manually rescaled on each mech anyway, so why wouldn't they update the scale for consistency at this time.

As one of very few proponents of using a (mostly) common set of like weapon meshes across all mechs, I hope to see some of the worst weapon mesh discrepancies fixed during the rescaling as well (basically all ballistics on Project Phoenix mechs, look at Wolverine for example)
As an aside to this, there a a select few mechs that need to use a secondary set of art assets for their weapons, namely the Raven and MadDog's lasers.

[Curccu]

Gryphorim, on 20 April 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

As one of very few proponents of using a (mostly) common set of like weapon meshes across all mechs, I hope to see some of the worst weapon mesh discrepancies fixed during the rescaling as well (basically all ballistics on Project Phoenix mechs, look at Wolverine for example)

Are you saying that TDR-5S with Gauss rifle doesn't look good? (I don't have screenie on my work computer )