432 replies to this topic

[KuroNyra]

You always forget the BUT.
We are not CNN or some other information chain.

Here, we are talking straight. And that poll say that under normal match without challenge. A majority of people don't think there is too much LRMS.
Period.


And like I said,
In Binari now.

Spoiler

00001010 01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101101 01101111 01110011 01110100 00100000 01101100 01100001 01110101 01100111 01101000 01110100 01100101 01100100 00101110 00001010 00001010 00001010 01001100 01100101 01110100 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100000 01110000 01101111 01101001 01101110 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01110101 01110000 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01100111 00101110 00001010 00001010 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01011001 01100101 01110011 00100000 00101000 00110001 00110001 00110000 00100000 01110110 01101111 01110100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01011011 00110011 00110111 00101110 00110001 00110110 00100101 01011101 00101001 00001010 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01001110 01101111 00100000 00101000 00110001 00110100 00110011 00100000 01110110 01101111 01110100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01011011 00110100 00111000 00101110 00110011 00110001 00100101 01011101 00101001 00001010 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01011001 01100101 01110011 00101100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01100100 01110101 01110010 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01101110 01100111 01100101 01110011 00101110 00100000 00101000 00110100 00110011 00100000 01110110 01101111 01110100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01011011 00110001 00110100 00101110 00110101 00110011 00100101 01011101 00001010 00001010 01010111 01101001 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101101 01100101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01101110 01100111 01100101 00101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01101111 01101011 00101110 00100000 01010100 01001000 01010101 01010011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01001110 01001111 00100000 01000011 01100001 01110100 01100101 01100111 01101111 01110010 01111001 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01001110 01001111 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01101110 01100111 01100101 00101110

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Cementi]

Triordinant, on 27 November 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Let me try to explain in in layman's terms. If this was a news report on CNN, the newscaster would be saying " 51% of responders say there are too many LRMs some or all of the time". Capiche? BTW, enlarging your font makes you look desperate and ignorant.

The LRM haters in this thread look desperate and ignorant (as their frequent refusal to use counters and cover has demonstrated).

[Triordinant]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

You always forget the BUT.
We are not CNN or some other information chain.

Here, we are talking straight. And that poll say that under normal match without challenge. A majority of people don't think there is too much LRMS.
Period.

Count again. 48% is NOT a majority. Saying "Yes, during challenges" is not the same as saying "No" to the poll. If the OP made it a simple Yes or No poll then the real majority would be seen more easily and there would nothing to argue about.

Cementi, on 27 November 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

The LRM haters in this thread look desperate and ignorant (as their frequent refusal to use counters and cover has demonstrated).

I don't hate LRMs; only the ability of an entire team to focus fire at targets they can't even see with LRMs. Get rid of that ability and LRMs can even be buffed.

[KuroNyra]

Triordinant, on 27 November 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Count again. 48% is NOT a majority. Saying "Yes, during challenges" is not the same as saying "No" to the poll. If the OP made it a simple Yes or No poll then the real majority would be seen more easily and there would nothing to argue about.

Sorry, but yes. 52% win over 48%, it's the majority.

Here, that poll clearly say -and you cannot deny it- that there is not too much LRMS under normal match.
But it also say there is too much under Challenge match. (wich are not all the time.)
But it DOESN'T say that there is too much LRMS all the time like you want to claim.


The "No" option take all case in account, under challenge, under no challenge. Same for the Yes.
But the third option take only under the account of the challenge. Basicly; it join the "Yes" when there is a challenge, and the "No" when there is none.

So basicly, no. There is for the majority of the people here not too much LRMS under normal match.
But yes, there is too much LRMS under challenge match.



I'm starting to wonder if you even know the difference between Yes and No considerings yours answer.But hey, not the first time you claim BS in threads, especially about LRMS.

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Triordinant]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Sorry, but yes. 52% win over 48%, it's the majority.

CORRECT - 52% wins over 48% and the 48% is the NO vote so you actually agree with me. You're the one who can't tell the difference between yes and no and everyone can see that by now. Feel free to keep posting.

[KuroNyra]

Triordinant, on 27 November 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

CORRECT - 52% wins over 48% and the 48% is the NO vote so you actually agree with me. You're the one who can't tell the difference between yes and no and everyone can see that by now. Feel free to keep posting.

• Yes (118 votes [37.94%])
  
• No (150 votes [48.23%])
  
• Yes, but only during challenges. (43 votes [13.83%])

Sorry what?


Not too much LRMS under all condition (both challenge and no challenge) = 48.23% (option 2)
No too much LRMS under normal fight condition (no challenge) = 62.84% (option 2 and 3)
Yes under All condition(both challenge and no challenge) = 51.77% (option 1 and 3)
Yes but ONLY with the challenge = 14.53% (option 3)

Basicly smart@ss:
there is too much LRMS for the majority of the people ONLY during the Challenges.
And There is not too much LRMS for the majority of the people when there is NO challenge.


We achieve a 62.84% of people saying it's ok when there is no challenge.
And only 51.77 it is not ok when there is a challenge. (and only 37% think there is too much LRMS at all no matter the condition.)

Yup, you REALLY don't know the difference between yes and nO;.

"Feel free to post".

Take the numbers the way you want, but in the ends. Under normal condition, the amount of LRMS is perceived has Ok by the peoples. Deal wiith it. So you basicly agree with me. The majority of people think it's ok under normal condition.

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Triordinant]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Yes under All condition (both challenge and no challenge) = 51.77% (option 1 and 3)

This and ONLY this determines the majority. End of story.

[KuroNyra]

Triordinant, on 27 November 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

This and ONLY this determines the majority. End of story.

Nope, you don't see the full detail.

R Razor, on 27 November 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Hey Einstein..........if there are too many AT ANY POINT IN THE GAME CYCLE then there is a problem, if they weren't so EASY and basically took NO SKILL to use effectively, then people wouldn't use them in the challenges.

And learn some manners while you're thinking about this.

All games have there problems, War Thunder got his, World of Tank got his, Mechwarrior got his. What do you expect?

I have nothing to learn from someone like you, at least I take "Einstein" has a compliment since all he have done during his life changed a lot of stuff.

Can I call you Justin Bieber?

Enought talking to walls. Let's see what the real guys think.
Thanks for making me laught Trio and Razor, you have always been here to brightens my days by yours jokes.

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Triordinant]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Nope, you don't see the full detail.

It's you who doesn't. Look, I get that English may not be your primary language and it's easy to get confused when a poll has choices like this one has. If it makes you feel any better, only 312 people have voted in this poll so even if 75% voted for or against anything it wouldn't really reflect what the community thinks. If PGI really wanted to know what MWO players thought about anything, they'd make a poll you'd have to answer before the game could run but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Edit: spelling

Edited by Triordinant, 27 November 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[KuroNyra]

I understand English has you can see, and the result of that poll even with the few number of participant is enought to see there opinion.

A majority of people think under normal match, there is not to much LRMS.
And a majority of people think under Challenge, there is too much LRMS.

Can't you understand that? I think your the one having problem reading english.

You are using a number but remove the conditions of that number to suit you. And that's just pathetic.

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[Triordinant]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

A majority of people think under normal match, there is not to much LRMS.
And a majority of people think under Challenge, there is too much LRMS.

What the poll says is that the MAJORITY believes there are too many LRMs some or all of the time. Nothing you say or do will change that.

[R Razor]

And yet you can't wrap your mind around the most basic of precepts.............if, at any point in the cycle of a game, a certain weapon system proves itself to be the "go to" system in order to generate damage, assists or kills, then there is a problem with that weapon system.


We get that you make your living in this game making use of the twin crutches of Clan and LURM, but really, put aside your bias and look at fact. It will be difficult for you, I understand that, because despite your claim of "understanding English" your responses indicate that is not the case.

The weapon itself doesn't need a nerf, but the ability to cause damage with that weapon with ZERO input from yourself aside from pressing the R key and clicking a mouse button does. You don't have to like it, but when over 50% of the folks voting say that there is a problem AT SOME POINT then there is a problem. All of your pedantic and snarky comments can't and won't change that fact.

[KuroNyra]

Zero imput? Ho sorry, I thought all that time to use the LRMS you actually had to take in account:
- The type of the battlemech your targeting, a light mech will have much less trouble avoiding your LRMS and get to safety qucikly. Will the distance be covered quickly enought to make the attack quick and not letting him the time to react?
- The condition of the guy, is he behind a corner? Is he able to disapprear from my lock during the fire sequence, does he he pop up from time to time or do we have a solid lock on him?
- He is in a good angle for maximum efficacity of my missiles? Won't the angle of the attack make most of the missilie hit obstacle in the way? Can I get a better placement?
- Is he beyond the range of my LRM?

It is not just point'n'click. But you are so locked on your mind that you can't even thought about theses.

Just by saying 0 input needed you basicly destroy your credibility.
Like I said: Pathetic.

But I'm not even shocked by that now. Heck, going by your way I could say the Laser are just point and click. You see the ennemy, and blam, you just press a button and kabloom. See what I did there? It's no different from what you do.


Can the situation of the LRMS could be make better? Yes, can they be a problem? Yes. Are they the auto-win you claim them to be? No. Are they the point'n'click weapon you claim them to be? No.


Before it was the popstart, PPC start, AC start, it was the laser better in everyway against the pulse laser. Etc etc, each weapons had its flaw. Heck, currently most people claim the PPC don't aren't worth it anymore. But most of them can't adapt to them and will be the first to cry they are OP when they get killed by theses.

Edited by KuroNyra, 27 November 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[s0hno]

You guys really need to learn how to chill....
However, I learned interesting things by this topic and poll:

1. LRM is a critical issue. Only few seem neutral, most are either pro-LRM or con-LRM.
2. Many people think there are too many LRMs. But not many enough to justify significant changes.
3. Most people are pro AMS rewards
4. Also improving AMS, adjust flight trajectory and the LOS option have many advocates (leaving out the bias)

Since any further "discussion" is rather dependent on personal opinions and emotions, I'd suggest we keep it cool from here and let the developers decide what happens with the next update.

And, whatever godamn weapon system you prefer ( ),
good hunt

[damonwolf]

SKILL IS OP!
LRMs are not. PERIOD.
The reasons people get killed by LRMS are because they are either 1) unlucky, 2) Very bad or new pilots , 3) they did something stupid, they ran out of ECM/AMS coverage, they encountered an exceptionally skilled pilot, etc., or a combination of these.
I have gotten killed twice in the past 100 games by LRMs...ONLY TWICE.
Ask most pilots what killed them in their last 10-50 games and I bet they WON'T say it was LRMs. I bet they'll tell you that Lasers or ballistics killed them. So, if LRMs rarely kill people, then that makes Lasers and Ballistics OP. NERF THEM! I'm more scared of a dual Gauss I can't see, hear, or reach due to range than I am of LRMs. One moment all is right with the world, the next you hear the Gauss hit and a Mech part has most of it's armor taken away...Gauss are more dangerous than LRMs. As matter of fact, in my experience, there is an increase of Gauss/PPC/Ballistics/Wubs in Challenges and Tournaments. Why? Because people want to bring their biggest damage/kill Mechs. Are you going to give them the same biased treatment some of you propose for their over-use in Challenges/Tounements?
Ballistics and Lasers don't have the slow arcing visual effects, warning voice/visual, and much of the screen shake that LRMS do. LRMS LOOK & SOUND deadly, very scarey, spoooooooky, but are less deadly than Ballistics and lasers...and there are many ways you can avoid the damn things:

Ways to avoid LRM damage/deaths:
1) Use cover dammit.
2) Stay with ECM/AMS Mechs instead of running off like an idiot...a dead idiot.
3) Get the Module.
4) How about taking a ton and a half from your Mech build and put in a @#$%ing AMS already. What?! Reduce my fire power for defense? What?!
5) Equip an ECM if you can (I see many ECM Mechs without a damn ECM.Grrrrrr).
6) When you have LRMS that are going to hit, swivvel your Mech from side to side to spread damage across your Mechs Torsos and arms.
7) Twist your torso using an arm as a shield.
8) Get in his face and kick his teeth in. Clan LRMs are worthless close in, and IS LRMS do zero damage within 180 meters.

If you aren't doing most of these, then don't b!tch about LRMs. PERIOD.

Instead of being a ******* complaining about LRMs and attempting to get them nerfed (AGAIN), you should embrace what benefits LRMs can give to your team tactically. They serve to keep the enemies heads down and behind cover. This affords your friendlies the ability to maneuver on them easier than without LRMs. LRMs can punish enemy Mechs attempting to maneuver on/flank your team and keep you safe. LRMS damage the enemies armor so your pretty lasers and badass ballistics can finish them off easier. Pesky Lights? LRMs will scare them off. Dire Whales giving you the blues...sick the LRM boat on them. Ask any sensible pilot that was in a duel with another Mech or multiple Mechs, getting his ass kicked, and those LRMs came in to help save his ass. I bet he'll say "thanks".
Every major successful military in the world used indirect fire. LRMs are indirect fire. They are, get over it.
Consider this:
Many people (not all) that run LRMs exclusively do so because they have neither the skill, nor the connection speed to allow them to run normal builds. Everyone should be able to play MWO, and if the only way they can is Indirect fire, then cool. They are providing support to you leet front-line fighters.

Many LRM pilots are not a threat...AT ALL. Why? Because it actually takes skill to be a good, effective LRM pilot. One has to have situational awareness at all times. One has to constantly reposition oneself to get the best shot/trajectory on their target. Especially ones using any of the ways to avoid them mentionmed above ^^^^. To do vicious damage, one has to get their TAG on the target while not getting their ass handed to them by the laser/ballistics on the Mech they are shooting at. One has to be good at anticipating enemy Mechs and look for patterns: many times enemy Mechs will come out from cover, shoot, then get back into cover before your LRMs even get 2/3 of the way to his ass. One has to constantly maneuver to stay alive as every enemy Mech, especially Lights are hunting your ass.
Look at the scoreboard after a match. Bad LRM pilots, or those that have bad connections do well under 200 damage...and that damage is spread out over mechs usually. It's the good pilots that can really ruin your day...and there are few of them because, let's face it, though most pilots in this game malign LRM pilots as useless and skill-less, those same pilots probably don't have the skill set to be a good LRM pilot because of how complicated it is.

P.S. One way to reduce LRM usage would be to get rid of or lessen the benefits (Tag and NARC Bonus) of Role Warfare that the DEVS put in the game. How about all the LRM capable mechs that the Devs keep putting in the game...cough cough Maddog cough cough. How about the Devs designing Clan Mechs so that the have to give up too much for AMS because they have to equip a crappy Omni-Pod that usually only has AMS on it and no weapons hardpoints. How about sensible incentives to equip AMS. How about the Devs designing Challenges that promote teamwork rather than BS selfish-kill-stealing/damage-dealing-staying-alive-with-a-win Challenges/Tournaments that promote the worst characteristics of humanity, and the worst habits in MWO...

Edited by damonwolf, 27 November 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[KuroNyra]

damonwolf, on 27 November 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

SKILL IS OP!
LRMs are not. PERIOD.
The reasons people get killed by LRMS are because they are either 1) unlucky, 2) Very bad or new pilots , 3) they did something stupid, they ran out of ECM/AMS coverage, they encountered an exceptionally skilled pilot, etc., or a combination of these.
I have gotten killed twice in the past 100 games by LRMs...ONLY TWICE.
Ask most pilots what killed them in their last 10-50 games and I bet they WON'T say it was LRMs. I bet they'll tell you that Lasers or ballistics killed them. So, if LRMs rarely kill people, then that makes Lasers and Ballistics OP. NERF THEM! I'm more scared of a dual Gauss I can't see, hear, or reach due to range than I am of LRMs. One moment all is right with the world, the next you hear the Gauss hit and a Mech part has most of it's armor taken away...Gauss are more dangerous than LRMs. As matter of fact, in my experience, there is an increase of Gauss/PPC/Ballistics/Wubs in Challenges and Tournaments. Why? Because people want to bring their biggest damage/kill Mechs. Are you going to give them the same biased treatment some of you propose for their over-use in Challenges/Tounements?
Ballistics and Lasers don't have the slow arcing visual effects, warning voice/visual, and much of the screen shake that LRMS do. LRMS LOOK & SOUND deadly, very scarey, spoooooooky, but are less deadly than Ballistics and lasers...and there are many ways you can avoid the damn things:

Ways to avoid LRM damage/deaths:
1) Use cover dammit.
2) Stay with ECM/AMS Mechs instead of running off like an idiot...a dead idiot.
3) Get the Module.
4) How about taking a ton and a half from your Mech build and put in a @#$%ing AMS already. What?! Reduce my fire power for defense? What?!
5) Equip an ECM if you can (I see many ECM Mechs without a damn ECM.Grrrrrr).
6) When you have LRMS that are going to hit, swivvel your Mech from side to side to spread damage across your Mechs Torsos and arms.
7) Twist your torso using an arm as a shield.
8) Get in his face and kick his teeth in. Clan LRMs are worthless close in, and IS LRMS do zero damage within 180 meters.

If you aren't doing most of these, then don't b!tch about LRMs. PERIOD.

Instead of being a ******* complaining about LRMs and attempting to get them nerfed (AGAIN), you should embrace what benefits LRMs can give to your team tactically. They serve to keep the enemies heads down and behind cover. This affords your friendlies the ability to maneuver on them easier than without LRMs. LRMs can punish enemy Mechs attempting to maneuver on/flank your team and keep you safe. LRMS damage the enemies armor so your pretty lasers and badass ballistics can finish them off easier. Pesky Lights? LRMs will scare them off. Dire Whales giving you the blues...sick the LRM boat on them. Ask any sensible pilot that was in a duel with another Mech or multiple Mechs, getting his ass kicked, and those LRMs came in to help save his ass. I bet he'll say "thanks".
Every major successful military in the world used indirect fire. LRMs are indirect fire. They are, get over it.
Consider this:
Many people (not all) that run LRMs exclusively do so because they have neither the skill, nor the connection speed to allow them to run normal builds. Everyone should be able to play MWO, and if the only way they can is Indirect fire, then cool. They are providing support to you leet front-line fighters.

Many LRM pilots are not a threat...AT ALL. Why? Because it actually takes skill to be a good, effective LRM pilot. One has to have situational awareness at all times. One has to constantly reposition oneself to get the best shot/trajectory on their target. Especially ones using any of the ways to avoid them mentionmed above ^^^^. To do vicious damage, one has to get their TAG on the target while not getting their ass handed to them by the laser/ballistics on the Mech they are shooting at. One has to be good at anticipating enemy Mechs and look for patterns: many times enemy Mechs will come out from cover, shoot, then get back into cover before your LRMs even get 2/3 of the way to his ass. One has to constantly maneuver to stay alive as every enemy Mech, especially Lights are hunting your ass.
Look at the scoreboard after a match. Bad LRM pilots, or those that have bad connections do well under 200 damage...and that damage is spread out over mechs usually. It's the good pilots that can really ruin your day...and there are few of them because, let's face it, though most pilots in this game malign LRM pilots as useless and skill-less, those same pilots probably don't have the skill set to be a good LRM pilot because of how complicated it is.

P.S. One way to reduce LRM usage would be to get rid of or lessen the benefits (Tag and NARC Bonus) of Role Warfare that the DEVS put in the game. How about all the LRM capable mechs that the Devs keep putting in the game...cough cough Maddog cough cough. How about the Devs designing Clan Mechs so that the have to give up too much for AMS because they have to equip a crappy Omni-Pod that usually only has AMS on it and no weapons hardpoints. How about sensible incentives to equip AMS. How about the Devs designing Challenges that promote teamwork rather than BS selfish-kill-stealing/damage-dealing-staying-alive-with-a-win Challenges/Tournaments that promote the worst characteristics of humanity, and the worst habits in MWO...

Nice wall of text, sadly the one who should read it won't or will but won't actually think about theses.
We're wasting our time with that kind of guy.

[C E Dwyer]

I don't think its LRM's per say, but the fact that lrm5 with or without Artemis, is superior to any other LRM launcher in the game.

LRM20 should be the most effective as it should be able to swamp AMS compared to streamed lrm5s, but it just doesn't work that way, lrm5 is far more flexible, and you can endlessly stream or if you have to alpha for not really much more heat.

Time and time again the thing that's at fault is the customisation system for allowing these mutant, stalkers, catapults, kintaro's

limit the number of launchers and LRM boats take bigger launchers instead of lots of little ones, there really is no point in taking the big launchers if you have lots of missle hard points.

[Artgathan]

Triordinant, on 27 November 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

If this was a news report on CNN

I'm pretty sure that when you start holding up CNN as a paragon of good journalism and unbiased intention, you've lost the argument.

[Procale]

How i deal with LRMs, get out of LoS and grab cover when NARC'ed.

Or you could just treat them like potatoes. Boil em, mash em, stick them in a stew.

[damonwolf]

KuroNyra, on 27 November 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Nice wall of text, sadly the one who should read it won't or will but won't actually think about theses.
We're wasting our time with that kind of guy.

Good point. I'll give a condensed version for today's ADD youth:
SKILL IS OP!
LRMs are not. PERIOD.

Ways to avoid LRM damage/deaths:

1) Use cover dammit.
2) Stay with ECM/AMS Mechs instead of running off like an idiot...a dead idiot.
3) Get the Module.
4) How about taking a ton and a half from your Mech build and put in a @#$%ing AMS already. What?! Reduce my fire power for defense? What?!
5) Equip an ECM if you can (I see many ECM Mechs without a damn ECM.Grrrrrr).
6) When you have LRMS that are going to hit, swivvel your Mech from side to side to spread damage across your Mechs Torsos and arms.
7) Twist your torso using an arm as a shield.
8) Get in his face and kick his teeth in. Clan LRMs are worthless close in, and IS LRMS do zero damage within 180 meters.

If you aren't doing most of these, then don't b!tch about LRMs. PERIOD.

Edited by damonwolf, 27 November 2014 - 11:28 AM.