44 replies to this topic

[-Halcyon-]

I saw a couple threads on cosmetics and it got me thinking about camo patterns, and why I don't buy permanent patterns ever.
This is another example of how PGI's greed is shooting them in the foot.

I bought one permanent camo pattern, right when I first started playing MWO. It was the skull pattern for the Atlas, and I was completely dismayed when I found I couldn't apply it to my other mechs.
I was expected to pay again

Well I never did. And as long as PGI continues this ridiculous purchase policy with camo patterns, I never will.
I really don't know what their thought process is on this, but if they offered universal camo patterns I would spend way more on them because I'm getting a better value for my money.

To think players will just fork over truckloads of money on camo patterns just because they want the same permanent pattern on all their mechs is ludicrous.
The other side of the ridicu-coin is they probably expect players to spend more money applying one-shot camos then they would buying permanent camos, which is equally insulting to the player.

This entire process is just dangling a carrot and when the player reaches for the carrot PGI hits them with the stick.

[UrsusMorologus]

If they were account unlocked I might buy any of them

Wont waste my money on them given current restrictions

[goggles2]

the prices for cosmetics in this game are extremely steep i bought 1 color once never again...

camo patterns should be account wide and colors should come in packs of like 5-10

i know other games where a color pack is less than 5$ and you get nearly 100 colors

[Elizander]

This is probably how they approached the issue in the beginning:

1) It takes manpower and work hours to make each Mech Camo fit each chassis.
2) So that equates to each camo being a separate item per chasses but we mostly see 1 camo should be the same for everything.
3) Since it costs time and money to make 1 camo work per chassis, they should charge per chassis to justify the cost.

The problem is that we just do see it that way. What we have is an inconsistency between paints and camos where Paint is a global unlock and Camo is that annoying thing you have to buy per chassis.

I hope that they make it available for all someday because that would make more sense to common folk and the work hours put into adjusting them per new chassis would just be an upkeep cost to maintain the sales (which would ideally go up if they unlocked for all mechs, but I don't have any numbers so meh).

[Saobh]

Guys its economics. Sell few at a higher price or sell lots cheap. In the end its how much profit they expect to get from those sells not how many sells they'll get.

In their case yes its something expensive that you have to think about before buying, so you indeed need to give some thought before doing it.

And remember that there are sales on colors and patterns on a regular basis.

Just to be clear I also consider them expensive and only have the Halloween pattern on a couple of Mechs as well as have 3 of the cheaper color versions of the ones I really wanted.


But one thing I would like them to change is this thing of only letting out a new pattern once its applicable to each chassis as Its of course a huge amount of work for them before they are able to sell them. I'd prefer they release them chassis by chassis even if it means certain patterns will only exist on a limited number of chassis. As the Pattern pool is really small right now (heck leave it open so that free lance texture artists can get a hand at it a bit like the TF2 program)


Edit : Or here is an other idea ... IF your Mech gets blown to smithereens you have to repaint your Mech. In that case patterns are cheap and you add value to staying alive !!

Edited by Saobh, 25 November 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Elizander]

Saobh, on 25 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Guys its economics. Sell few at a higher price or sell lots cheap. In the end its how much profit they expect to get from those sells not how many sells they'll get.

In their case yes its something expensive that you have to think about before buying, so you indeed need to give some thought before doing it.

And remember that there are sales on colors and patterns on a regular basis.

Just to be clear I also consider them expensive and only have the Halloween pattern on a couple of Mechs as well as have 3 of the cheaper color versions of the ones I really wanted.


But one thing I would like them to change is this thing of only letting out a new pattern once its applicable to each Mech as Its of course a huge amount of work for them before they are able to sell them. I'd prefer they release them Mech by Mech even if it means certain patterns will only exist on a limited number of Mechs. As the Pattern pool is really small right now (heck leave it open so that free lance texture artists can get a hand at it a bit like the TF2 program)

I don't know if they have the right people to handle something like what Steam has for their Community Workshops but profit sharing is like having free content that you can earn from if they pick that route.

[MeiSooHaityu]

If I remember right, they used to treat colors the same way as camo. They changed that because it was a bit rediculous.

I know I would have purchased more camos if they were unlocked for all mechs.

Thing is, there are a lot of people who don't care how many times they purchase camos. They have a ton of cash and buy every mech pack and every hero mech. Those people allow PGI to make more money the way it is now than if they made camos unlockable across all mechs.

I know that may seem weird to say, but I bet it is true.

[AlphaToaster]

It comes down to a matter of value. Most of the time, once a camo has been applied to a mech it stays. We don't have enough foreknowledge of which map we will get, so we can't min/max our camo to fit. Because we don't min/max our camo to fit, there's no need to have permanent patterns than we can switch back and forth between.

1 full camo unlock is 1250 MC, but a one-shot is 125. Even if I was going to pay for the 1250, in order to get value out of it, I'd have to change it around more than 10 times and that's just not going to happen. And on top of that I'd need additional patterns @ 1250 a pop, to change between. That's a mech worth of MC, for some skins that I can only use on one chassis type.

I tend to use the 125 MC one-shots when I get a new mech. I bought the full Fractal camo for the Atlas when I first started playing and I regretted it ever since. I set them all to Fractal, which I could have done for 375, but instead paid 1250 because I didn't know any better.

[SkyHammyr]

I'm okay with the Per-Chassis Camo Unlock. I understand that it takes resources to make the camo work on different chassis so, asking to pay for that is justified.

What annoys me is the locked camo on hero mechs. I buy a camo spec for my Battlemasters, I should be able to paint my Phoenix Battlemaster with that camo spec.

[Milocinia]

Full camo unlocks are very overpriced but on the flipside, one-shots are reasonably priced.

Full unlocks should at least unlock the camo for all variants of that chassis.

Alternatively I would be reasonably happy to pay double what the full unlock price is for a complete unlock across all mechs, just like colours are now.

[Molossian Dog]

Saobh, on 25 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Guys its economics. Sell few at a higher price or sell lots cheap. ...

As mentioned in the premium time discussion...a lot of normally effective laws of economy don´t work in a digital enviroment.

In other words: Reserves of colours/patterns are infinite. There are initoal costs, but production costs=0. Noone has to dive to gather sea snails because the stoock of that luxurious purple is running out. Which makes the pricing policy twice as insulting.

But now it is too late. Once you asked a specific price for a specific "commodity" you can´t go back without offending or reimbursing people.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 25 November 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Tastian]

They are priced high so that they can put them on sale. More people will buy them at 50% off (even though that is still ridiculously high).

I do agree. Camos are cool and its a shame I don't buy them because of the price.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Halcyon201, on 25 November 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

I saw a couple threads on cosmetics and it got me thinking about camo patterns, and why I don't buy permanent patterns ever.
This is another example of how PGI's greed is shooting them in the foot.

I bought one permanent camo pattern, right when I first started playing MWO. It was the skull pattern for the Atlas, and I was completely dismayed when I found I couldn't apply it to my other mechs.
I was expected to pay again

Well I never did. And as long as PGI continues this ridiculous purchase policy with camo patterns, I never will.
I really don't know what their thought process is on this, but if they offered universal camo patterns I would spend way more on them because I'm getting a better value for my money.

To think players will just fork over truckloads of money on camo patterns just because they want the same permanent pattern on all their mechs is ludicrous.
The other side of the ridicu-coin is they probably expect players to spend more money applying one-shot camos then they would buying permanent camos, which is equally insulting to the player.

This entire process is just dangling a carrot and when the player reaches for the carrot PGI hits them with the stick.

I agree. I will occasionally buy a one shot camo for my favorite mechs but since it is a one shot, even if something else cool comes out I will never by another. Also no way in hell would I buy an "unlock" for like $10 if it wasn't an account wide unlock but likely would if it actually was account wide.

Honestly I have the same issue with cockpit items. I have been wanting a warhorn but I will be damned if I spend 750 MC on an item I have to manually switch every time I want to change mechs. I mean I already fume over the fact that due to the obscene C-bill costs, I have to swap modules when I am cycling through my mechs for their 2x each day, I am not going to also swap cockpit items.

[GalmOne]

What annoys me is that nowhere was written that the "permanent" camo was for one chassis only, i thought that was the one shot
I bought my first Nova camo some time ago thinking that i could use it on my KTX also and got a realy bad surprise

I would be ok if they were limited by weight class but frankly 1000 mc for a single chassis is way overkill

[pwnface]

Camo unlocks should definitely be account wide and for ALL your mechs. I wouldn't mind this even if it meant increasing the price a little bit from 1250MC, as it works now buying these camo unlocks are a terrible value. Generally, buying in bulk (like an unlock) is rewarded with better value, but that is not the case here.

Edited by pwnface, 25 November 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[-Halcyon-]

Saobh, on 25 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Guys its economics. Sell few at a higher price or sell lots cheap.

It's price gouging.
Supply and demand has 0% relevancy in a digital game. As someone said, they aren't running out of pigment for their repaints.
Maybe they might have to replace the AA batteries in their wireless drawing tablet every once in a while. It doesn't justify the insane price tag they put on a 1 mech only camo pattern.

They're greedy, and the reason they haven't changed their pricing model is because some people are buying, but if they changed the model they would make way more money with more overall sales.

[Mothykins]

Easier to tempt people into buying things if they're small.

That said, when the price of a Camo and paint is more than a 'Mech...?

[Killstorm999999]

Molossian Dog, on 25 November 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

As mentioned in the premium time discussion...a lot of normally effective laws of economy don´t work in a digital enviroment.

But this one does: supply and demand. Even though there is no supply, offering the camos at a lower price is effectively increasing the supply. It's backwards from what you normally expect, but the effect on demand will be the same. More people will buy. So it all comes down to weather or not more people will buy it at the cheaper price to off set the difference, which is something we forum users certainly do not know, and PGI might not even know.

Quote

But now it is too late. Once you asked a specific price for a specific "commodity" you can´t go back without offending or reimbursing people.

But because of this point, it's probably not going to change any time soon.

Edited by Deltron Zero, 25 November 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[Killstorm999999]

Halcyon201, on 25 November 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

They're greedy, and the reason they haven't changed their pricing model is because some people are buying, but if they changed the model they would make way more money with more overall sales.

Possibly. Supply is not relevant, but demand still is. Lowering the price will increase demand, but will the number of increased sales make up for the lower price? Who can say? I doubt PGI has done an in depth analysis.

It can't be said for certainty if lowering the price will make them more money. I can say it would make me happier though!

Edited by Deltron Zero, 25 November 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[terrycloth]

Right now the only demand for the full unlock on camo patterns is people who assume it's for all chassis since it doesn't say differently anywhere. Any money they make from them is from tricking people. No one ever buys more than one, and I doubt many people buy more than 10 single-shots of the same pattern.

If it was a full unlock like it says it is, some people would buy a second one. They'd make more money. The current setup is just stupid all around. It's lose-lose.