60 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

75% of people dont care about winning or about cbills. They care about living the longest at all cost. That is there goal.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 25 November 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Sandpit]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Do you have any evidence, proof, theory, mechanism, or concept to back up your claim?

do you?

What "claim" am I making that you want "backed up"?

[Gas Guzzler]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

how does kill stealing "promote teamplay"?

Who cares about kill stealing. Seriously, get over it.

Best way to win is to kill the bad guys as quickly as possible. You expect people to hold their fire while you take your time putting down an enemy Mech? How could you expect that to ever happen??? Of course everyone is going to shoot. Good teamwork involves focusing fire and getting enemy firepower OFF the battlefield. No one cares about buffing your personal K/D ration or Kill count or whatever you are trying to show off.

You are the problem when you want your team to stand and watch while you finish off an enemy. What kind of team play is that??

[Corbon Zackery]

The fact is with all the clan mechs running at high speeds. Most of the Assaults are losing their protection. Then the Assaults are picked off rather easy.

When it was just IS mech Assaults were screened by 64kph mechs sporting fire power to combine kill opponents.

That why you get bonuses for staying In formation. Now you have most of your team in the 70kph to 90kph speed zone while your assaults plod away at 40-to 60kph.

The other issue is so many noobs are trying to ride Assaults into battle. Then they get crushed doing less than 100 damage. Before it was ok because you have extra assaults to compensate.

Now with 3 some noob in a 100ton atlas gets popped you pretty much lost the game.

That's why we need to keep looking into a level based system of play. To keep young inexperienced players out of these types of mechs. No one issues a rookie pilot a 20,000,000 c-bill atlas.

Its like veteran players are forced to use these mechs just to keep noobs out of them during matches.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 25 November 2014 - 04:00 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

When I say "kill steal", I don't mean the "kill someone you didn't really help bring down" thing, I mean the "save your shots until your teammates expose the enemy CT and have to stop firing due to cooldown/overheat, and then shoot said enemy for massive CB payout".
If an action increases the chances to win, it encourages teamplay. If an action encourages teamplay, it encourages chances to win. I don't see how this is such a difficult concept to grasp for some of you...

Okay, this changes my standpoint a bit.

I don't see how this could be a problem when assists yield more C-Bills?

Seriously i have never witnessed this, and personally shoot as soon as I can.

[pwnface]

Yeah... I've never seen anyone not shoot an enemy and just wait until it is opened up.

[mogs01gt]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 25 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

When I used to play TF2 as a Heavy (before the massive buffs and way before the crafting system) I learned that being a huge target that moves slowly and being successful was heavily reliant on your positioning.
Being a good Assault pilot works exactly the same way. You need Mediums and Lights to keep fastmovers and flankers off of you the same way they need you to mush big mechs and lead the initial charge.
Assault mechs have advantages that not everyone who plays one knows how to utilize, and has weaknesses that can be easily exploited to the untrained pilot.
Positioning is a key element.
Its spatial awareness and anticipation of how faster mechs are going to attack you and compensating for that.

I only played a few matches and each time, unless our team was stomping the other, the faster mechs simply ran forwards to their deaths.. I was thinking to myself "man I wish I had a medium mech beside me, trying to hit this FS9 sucks balls"

[The Boz]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 November 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Who cares about kill stealing. Seriously, get over it.

Best way to win is to kill the bad guys as quickly as possible. You expect people to hold their fire while you take your time putting down an enemy Mech?

I AM EXPECTING THEM TO NOT HOLD THEIR FIRE. That is my entire point.
"Does this action help me win? No? Well it can bother off, then."

EDIT: bug-to-the-ger is censored? Really?

Gas Guzzler, on 25 November 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I don't see how this could be a problem when assists yield more C-Bills?

Seriously i have never witnessed this, and personally shoot as soon as I can.

The assist CB moneymaker encouraged an even more stupid playstyle: tagging. "Oh, you want me to help you take down that DWF? But I already attacked it! Have patience while I tag the Spider!"

Sandpit, on 25 November 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

do you?

What "claim" am I making that you want "backed up"?

Pattern detected: keep making accusations and asking questions, without ever bothering to provide an actual argument. Yeah, I'll be ignoring you from now on.

Edited by The Boz, 26 November 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

I didn't say it did. You said 200k cbills did.

How does 200k cbills promote teamplay?

It's 125K more than 75K, but you only get it if you win?

[PhoenixFire55]

Thats just the way of the PUGs. If I knew that the assault mech I have an option to support/protect actually knows what he is doing I'd help him out. But chances are he'll do the same 50 damage in a 100t mech even if you watch his back etc. I'd rather spend this time harassing the enemy doing damage and kills myself knowing with 100% that this time won't be wasted.

[Water Bear]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Flat rewards. Team wins? 200k CB. Team loses? 75k CB. No kill-steal rewards.

If it makes you feel any better I understood what you meant. Your assumption is that team play is positively correlated to winning, and that rewarding kills, assists, etc encourages maximizing those behaviors whether they are the best thing to do to help the team at some moment or not.

[The Boz]

Water Bear, on 26 November 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

If it makes you feel any better I understood what you meant. Your assumption is that team play is positively correlated to winning, and that rewarding kills, assists, etc encourages maximizing those behaviors whether they are the best thing to do to help the team at some moment or not.

Exactly. Because, after all, what purpose (outside of silly "challenges") is teamwork that does not lead the team to victory?

[mogs01gt]

IMO only the team what wins should get the CBills. It would prevent those running off to get one kill and then dying. At least, I would hope it would prevent that..

[Joseph Mallan]

mogs01gt, on 25 November 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

I feel your pain!! Man, When your team doesnt cover you from Mediums and lights stripping back armor and tearing off limbs: you can really tell when you have bad teammates who only play for themselves. I dont blame them though since this game is too focused on cbills. The problem is, if they actually supported their team, they would earn more cbills by winning.


How can PGI create game modes that promotes team play rather than cbill grind??


Mogs

I take a Brawler Atlas and provide close range support for my Assault Lance. Works really nice and nets me many bonus C-bills. In PUGs! But when I team up with 3 Lawmen and we are separated at the drop... makes it hard to get those bonuses.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

how does kill stealing "Kill Confirmation" "promote teamplay"?

There is your answer. The enemy is dead you can now start shooting another mech assisting your team mate. In real life its called "overlapping fields of fire" and looks like this:
<----- Teamwork done right. Nobody worries about kill stealing!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 November 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[Killstorm999999]

mogs01gt, on 25 November 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

How can PGI create game modes that promotes team play rather than cbill grind??

Mogs

The winning team gets 100,000 + salvage + completed objectives + maybe surviving
The losing team gets less.

No bonus cbills for kills, assists, spotting, dmg, et cetera.

Edited by Deltron Zero, 26 November 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Deltron Zero, on 26 November 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

The winning team gets 100,000 + salvage + completed objectives + maybe surviving
The losing team gets less.

No bonus cbills for kills, assists, spotting, dmg, et cetera.

They should get zero, they lost.

[Almond Brown]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

how does 200k cbills "promote teamplay"?

"Oh No's" Not again... LOL

To the OP, when the fat armored pigs are in front where they belong, we got your back. When you sit back in the back row yelling "Go! men Go!. We look back while the the enemy Little en's munch you for lunch and smile as you get exactly what you deserved.

P.S Mostly a Heavy and Assault pilot myself. Get your ass out Front, if you want Rear end support.

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

how does kill stealing "promote teamplay"?

What is this "kill stealing" you speak of? We win or Lose as a Team... right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 November 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Necromonger Commander]

If you are getting shot in the back you weren't paying attention and walked into a cluster F@ck. The only time I get shot in the back in an assault is by team mates trying to shoot past me.

On my lights I equip lots of back armor because once they start chasing you you are going to take damage running away.

[The Boz]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

There is your answer. The enemy is dead you can now start shooting another mech assisting your team mate. In real life its called "overlapping fields of fire" and looks like this:
<----- Teamwork done right. Nobody worries about kill stealing!

I explained to you, several times, exactly what I mean by kill stealing. You choose to ignore it. Same way you choose to ignore tagging.
Whatever, dude.