60 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

pwnface, on 25 November 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Yeah... I've never seen anyone not shoot an enemy and just wait until it is opened up.

And Win...

[Rossario x Vampire]

xXDivoXx, on 25 November 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I do not understand man... Assaults are Different now .. i Use BattleMaster and Awesome-9m with Xl Engines their speed is 83 km/h Stripping Armor?... i Dont Have Back Armor a Good Assault Pilot Knows the Direction of an Attack and Put other teammates behind his back
This game is great ...just don't play it whole time... and there is not much to grind i have a lot of mechs but usually i just Cant find my self Piloting something Other than a Fast Assault or PulseLazer Hunchback4p ....
Bad Team mates Even The Game By Killing Enemies !

Exactly after such posts I usually see Masters and Victors in game, and never saw an Highlander or Banshee such as 3S or 3E. Rarely HeavyMetal was spoted. Pure assaults are dead as class... even Atlases are disapperaing replaced by Warhawks and Whales. Probably King Crab will share the fate of Highlander... massive first weeks gameplay and than will be collecting dust in garage. XL engines are killing the class, bad team without providing ECM and AMS cover are killing the class, Ghostheat are kiling the class.

Assault which can't go "zombie" is just an hevier version of medium mech.

Edited by Rossario x Vampire, 26 November 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Satan n stuff, on 26 November 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

It's 125K more than 75K, but you only get it if you win?

They tried that this past weekend. Folks didn't like such restriction to be placed on their personal play styles apparently. Had to Survive (same as win right)

Besides, some folks claim to never WIN. How do they ever "benefit" from such a lucrative option?

P.S. And you just not giving a **** about anyone else, is not really a doable reason. Sorry.

[The Boz]

...how the hell is "kill, assist, win, survive" the same as "win"!?

Also, it is systematically impossible for you to never win. A 50:50 win:loss ratio is a direct consequence of an Elo-based matchmaking system, given enough games to achieve placement confidence.

[mogs01gt]

Necromonger Commander, on 26 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

If you are getting shot in the back you weren't paying attention and walked into a cluster F@ck. The only time I get shot in the back in an assault is by team mates trying to shoot past me.

no. Its fairly simple and common tactic to get behind slow assaults and alpha their backs. All good Medium or Light pilots know this. The point is that wen two assaults are engaged, the support mechs should be stripping components, chasing off enemies or destroying their backsides.

Almond Brown, on 26 November 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

They tried that this past weekend. Folks didn't like such restriction to be placed on their personal play styles apparently. Had to Survive (same as win right)



Besides, some folks claim to never WIN. How do they ever "benefit" from such a lucrative option?



P.S. And you just not giving a **** about anyone else, is not really a doable reason. Sorry.

No they were playing to survive, not to win.

Edited by mogs01gt, 26 November 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[xe N on]

mogs01gt, on 25 November 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

I feel your pain!! Man, When your team doesnt cover you from Mediums and lights stripping back armor and tearing off limbs:

My pain are assaults that get all the support they need but rather stay back and hide while their "support" are getting shredded by enemy fire.

Playing assaults successful requires both strategic thinking but also bravery. Most assault pilots lack in one of both.

Assaults are not for tanking damage. No mech can tank damage for long if multiple mechs focus on one target. However, assaults can apply enormous pressure by using it fire power and force the opposing team to retreat from their fire allowing the own team to get the upper hand.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[mogs01gt]

xe N on, on 26 November 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

My pain are assaults that get all the support they need but rather stay back and hide while their "support" are getting shredded by enemy fire.

That's an entire thread by itself right there.

[Satan n stuff]

Almond Brown, on 26 November 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

They tried that this past weekend. Folks didn't like such restriction to be placed on their personal play styles apparently. Had to Survive (same as win right)

Besides, some folks claim to never WIN. How do they ever "benefit" from such a lucrative option?

P.S. And you just not giving a **** about anyone else, is not really a doable reason. Sorry.

Looks like we have a mind reader here. Tell me, oh great one, where I think you can shove that attitude.

If you happen to still be reading after that, I'd like such an *ahem* obviously intelligent person who would never ever do such a thing as low as ignoring details to avoid damaging their own argument, to explain to me why winning to get a reward and win + survive + get a kill + get an assist to get a reward aren't quite the same thing.
In case you missed it, that was sarcasm.

I don't doubt that there are players who claim to never win, but it's a statistical certainty that those claims are complete BS. Even the worst players win some matches, and giving them an incentive to play better might just make them try to win more, do you see how that might work?

As for me not caring about anyone else, I have a very long post history saying otherwise. Now go bend spoons or whatever other tricks you think you can do, you can't possibly be any worse at it than at mind reading.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 26 November 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[Davers]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

You're talking about two separate issues

There's a difference in "give 200k per win" and "reward actions that encourage teamplay"

As for "kill steal", it doesn't exist. This is a team based game. You're talking about rewarding team based play in one breath and then condemning it in the next. When you play as a team and work together, you do things like focus fire. Do you really expect me to stop in the middle of a firefight and ask "Hey, has anyone else "claimed" this kill before I shoot at it?"

Of course not! What are we, bloody Clammers?

[Sandpit]

The Boz, on 26 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I explained to you, several times, exactly what I mean by kill stealing. You choose to ignore it. Same way you choose to ignore tagging.
Whatever, dude.

no, he chooses to refute the very idea of "kill stealing" in a team based game. You refuse to acknowledge it because you want your kill.
gl&gh

[YueFei]

Fatal funnels, peeking corners right at the corner itself, these are the downfall of unsupported Assault mechs.

Slicing the pie surgically, applying pressure to 1 or 2 enemies at a time, using heavy armor and firepower to out-trade the enemies on the edge, and pressuring those enemies into crappy sight lines, so that the rest of the team can move up.

That's how you can use an Assault mech to tank enemy fire without being suicidal.

Must have long range weapons for this.

[Abivard]

The biggest problem is how PGI has placed spawns and who spawns where!

As long as PGI makes maps and spawns that ENCOURAGE fast mechs to run away from the assault mechs this stuff will continue.

[scruffy416]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Flat rewards. Team wins? 200k CB. Team loses? 75k CB. No kill-steal rewards.

No.

1 - You'll never achieve a 50/50 win ratio without streaks of wins and losses - win streak, fine, but how many losses are you going to play where you get 0 CBills? 3? 4? 10? I've had loss streaks that long and longer, but I keep playing because at least I'm making CBills and progressing some. Not gonna do that with a zero CBill reward.

2 - This "delayed shooting" or waiting for a cherry-red CT before shooting -- I'll admit I'll feel this has happened to me in the past -- I'm also gonna say this is all in my head, because I'll only ever feel it when I'm having a drag-out brawl with someone and then a teammate pops in to help and kills them. You feel bitter because you did all that work and no Killing Blow! But I'm gonna say 90% of the time it's just that -- feeling. Hell, maybe they were holding fire because they just finished alpha'ing someone else and are cooling down... I'm busy piloting here MY mech, I don't know.

3 - All the tourneys and events nowadays promote Assists over Kills. I think that has to make the "wait-for-killshot" people in the minority.

4 - The idea that people who are dedicated to doing nothing but taking kill-shots are going to be deterred by from that action by no CBills doesn't really fly -- people will still crow about their KDR and number of kills they got that round, etc. -- unless you're advocating no screen messages announcing kills during the round, and no list of kills at the end of round screen.

5 - No reward for close games - Imagine a near 15 minute game that ends with no reward due to something random like a player's client losing connectivity mid-brawl - not your fault, not the team's fault, just dumb luck.

6 - No reward for personal effort. - You can't pick your teams in this game if you play PUG -- PUG is where noobs start off and where we need to attract and retain new players -- so you're going to be thrown in with a random crowd every match. Hopefully you're lucky and MM does a good job, and you end up with a good team - but sometimes you won't -- you'll do OK, you'll act in the interests of the team, but other players won't, and you end up with a loss -- you are advocating punishing the entire team for the actions of some and you don't even acknowledge those who did play as a team -- as others have mentioned, the new reward system gives players bonuses for team play. Being punished for actions taken by others isn't gonna fly with new players IMHO.

They effectively had zero CBill games enabled back in the day when Repair and Rearm was still a thing. If they hadn't removed Repair and Rearm, I would be either not be playing this game at all, or I would not have put any money into it.

[Xmith]

Abivard, on 26 November 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

The biggest problem is how PGI has placed spawns and who spawns where!

As long as PGI makes maps and spawns that ENCOURAGE fast mechs to run away from the assault mechs this stuff will continue.

Actually, it's up to the teams to decide if they want to push hard and leave the assaults behind. Drop points are not the problem.

You will have potential problems if no one recognizes that the assaults are in the trailing lance.

Don't blame drop points. Blame the blue team.

[Sandpit]

Xmith, on 26 November 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Actually, it's up to the teams to decide if they want to push hard and leave the assaults behind. Drop points are not the problem.

You will have potential problems if no one recognizes that the assaults are in the trailing lance.

Don't blame drop points. Blame the blue team.

You'll notice a lot of bad behavior around here gets blamed on PGI. There's always a scapegoat.

[Abivard]

Sandpit, on 26 November 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

You'll notice a lot of bad behavior around here gets blamed on PGI. There's always a scapegoat.

You will notice a lot of white knights around here who will blame everything on the players.

If you can not understand how spawn placement effects players game behavior, then you should sit silently in the corner until you learn when, how,why,where, when and what it does... otherwise you simply sound like an pompous fool.

[Xmith]

Abivard, on 26 November 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

You will notice a lot of white knights around here who will blame everything on the players.

If you can not understand how spawn placement effects players game behavior, then you should sit silently in the corner until you learn when, how,why,where, when and what it does... otherwise you simply sound like an pompous fool.

I know people like to call others they don't know stupid or idiots but PGI in their wisdom has hope for the intelligence of the average MWO pilot.

PGI is aware that some people will have trouble dealing with drop placements and has no doubt there are pilots who have some talent when it come to problem solving.

All it takes is a few words in chat or coms to set the match in motion to favor the blue team.

[Sandpit]

Abivard, on 26 November 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

You will notice a lot of white knights around here who will blame everything on the players.

If you can not understand how spawn placement effects players game behavior, then you should sit silently in the corner until you learn when, how,why,where, when and what it does... otherwise you simply sound like an pompous fool.

wow
Did you really just call ME a white knight?
bwahahahaha

I wish people like you realized just how ignorant they sound and just how much credibility they lose when they say things like that about others when they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
shame on you

[Abivard]

Xmith, on 26 November 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

I know people like to call others they don't know stupid or idiots but PGI in their wisdom has hope for the intelligence of the average MWO pilot.

PGI is aware that some people will have trouble dealing with drop placements and has no doubt there are pilots who have some talent when it come to problem solving.

All it takes is a few words in chat or coms to set the match in motion to favor the blue team.

White Knight much?

Insults and slurs directed against any opposing views thinly disguised as condemning said actions,Check!

Whitewash and blind faith in PGI's Omnipotence, check!

Ability to read the Mind's of all the PGI staff and convey their thoughts as well as future hopes and insights to the reader, Check!

Blames everything on the player's or OTHERS, check!

Insinuates that anyone that is not a white Knight must be to stupid to not see how brilliant everything really is, Check!

Straw argument, Check!

Advises to use 3rd party app's or extreme work around rather than acknowledge a problem may exists, check!

Looks like you are a typical white Knight/Troll.

[The Boz]

Sandpit, on 26 November 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

no, he chooses to refute the very idea of "kill stealing" in a team based game. You refuse to acknowledge it because you want your kill.
gl&gh

It's not about me wanting my kill. Are you even reading my posts? Are you trolling me? I have to ask, because we've had this very discussion, in this very thread, quite recently.