50 replies to this topic

[Captain Stiffy]

I seem to remember purchasing the basic colors for c-bills. Is this no longer possible?

Oh I see it. But there are no dark colors at all. BLECH

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 25 November 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Quxudica]

Captain Stiffy, on 25 November 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

I seem to remember purchasing the basic colors for c-bills. Is this no longer possible?

you get three options for cbills i think. All pretty ugly. Honestly the paint system is a horrible f2p style set up in the worst sense.

[Golden Vulf]

Grabbing any of the current preorder packages will get you a variety of colors. It isn't for MC, but for a direct charge.

The Resistance Packs are the cheaper option, Top tier 80 bucks, 4 mechs + variants and 24 colors, and 6 camo unlocks?

Edited by Golden Vulf, 25 November 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Quxudica]

Golden Vulf, on 25 November 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Grabbing any of the current preorder packages will get you a variety of colors. It isn't for MC, but for a direct charge.

The Resistance Packs are the cheaper option, Top tier 80 bucks, 4 mechs + variants and 24 colors, and 6 camo unlocks?

Maybe I'm just way too frugal but I can't see how anyone would look at that as anything but a rip off. You could buy the top tier collectors edition of an entire triple A game that cost millions of dollars to make for that price. I really just can't comprehend how PGI sells any of these bundles for how overpriced they are. But to each their own I guess.

[Brody319]

Quxudica, on 25 November 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Maybe I'm just way too frugal but I can't see how anyone would look at that as anything but a rip off. You could buy the top tier collectors edition of an entire triple A game that cost millions of dollars to make for that price. I really just can't comprehend how PGI sells any of these bundles for how overpriced they are. But to each their own I guess.

Collector editions are limited, and really do not cost millions to make. A figurine, map, CD with the game's soundtrack, and other free **** probably costs them around 20 bucks from Chinese labor. Now the cost of the game itself cost millions to make, but they are planning on Millions of people to buy them to make up that cost. I would not call these packaged overpriced.

These mechs all play different and are unique. CoD releases 2-3 maps as 20 dollar DLC. Maps that are made easily by a team of like 4 people, and more often than not can just be reskins of older maps. Plus all this content is released for free later! you can buy all these mechs for c-bills and you are getting a better deal because you know how good they will be by then because of how many people that have tested them via purchase and MC.

[Quxudica]

Brody319, on 25 November 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

Collector editions are limited, and really do not cost millions to make. A figurine, map, CD with the game's soundtrack, and other free **** probably costs them around 20 bucks from Chinese labor. Now the cost of the game itself cost millions to make, but they are planning on Millions of people to buy them to make up that cost. I would not call these packaged overpriced.

These mechs all play different and are unique. CoD releases 2-3 maps as 20 dollar DLC. Maps that are made easily by a team of like 4 people, and more often than not can just be reskins of older maps. Plus all this content is released for free later! you can buy all these mechs for c-bills and you are getting a better deal because you know how good they will be by then because of how many people that have tested them via purchase and MC.

CoD map packs, and map packs in general, are horrible and a blight on multiplayer gaming. I really detest it - not just for the money grubbing nature of them but for the harm it does to a games community by splitting it artificially amongst those that have and have not the maps. As an old PC gamer it seems so bizarre to me to see people paying huge prices for maps. We used to get maps for free or even make them ourselves. meh.

Also I was referring to the games costing millions, I know full well CE's are cheap junk and I almost never suggest someone pay for them. That said, 70 bucks for a triple A game's collectors edition (as useless as CE's are) seems like a better deal than 80-150 bucks on early access to virtual mechs that you might not even like. You can literally get these things for free if you wait a couple months.

I think my mindset is just to outside their target demographic. I've certainly bought virtual items before. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying 20 USD more for a couple virtual vehicles than it costs for entire big budget games. I'd never pay more than 10 bucks for something like that personally and even tens pushing it.

The whole paying for paintjobs and cockpit decals flummoxes me even more. I remember back in the day when Bethesda got publicly skewered over the whole Horse Armor fiasco, yet no one bats an eye at a company charging three bucks for an RBG code. At least the camo's took some minimal amount of effort. but eh, as i said to each their own.

[Mothykins]

Well, I will say that PGI is at least not as ****** as Disney Infinity or Skylanders is.

We're talking $100+ in ON DISK DLC aimed at small children. Small. Children. Individual characters cost between $8-20, depending on where you get them.

The only upside is you get a figurine. Whoo.

If nothing else, take solace in the fact that PGI is not actively scamming small kids out of their allowance and lunch money.

[Brody319]

Quxudica, on 25 November 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

CoD map packs, and map packs in general, are horrible and a blight on multiplayer gaming. I really detest it - not just for the money grubbing nature of them but for the harm it does to a games community by splitting it artificially amongst those that have and have not the maps. As an old PC gamer it seems so bizarre to me to see people paying huge prices for maps. We used to get maps for free or even make them ourselves. meh.

Also I was referring to the games costing millions, I know full well CE's are cheap junk and I almost never suggest someone pay for them. That said, 70 bucks for a triple A game's collectors edition (as useless as CE's are) seems like a better deal than 80-150 bucks on early access to virtual mechs that you might not even like. You can literally get these things for free if you wait a couple months.

I think my mindset is just to outside their target demographic. I've certainly bought virtual items before. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying 20 USD more for a couple virtual vehicles than it costs for entire big budget games. I'd never pay more than 10 bucks for something like that personally and even tens pushing it.

The whole paying for paintjobs and cockpit decals flummoxes me even more. I remember back in the day when Bethesda got publicly skewered over the whole Horse Armor fiasco, yet no one bats an eye at a company charging three bucks for an RBG code. At least the camo's took some minimal amount of effort. but eh, as i said to each their own.

If you wanna look at something horrid, look at TF2 and CSGO. TF2 has unusual hats that are worth 500-600 dollars each and possibly more. CS:GO has guns that are worth several hundred dollars and they function exactly the same as the base guns. They litterally have all the content and are just paying for skins. Imagine if the Maddog and Catapult were exactly the same in every way, but were just visually different.

This game is honestly the most money fair game I've played.

[Vassago Rain]

Brody319, on 25 November 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you wanna look at something horrid, look at TF2 and CSGO. TF2 has unusual hats that are worth 500-600 dollars each and possibly more. CS:GO has guns that are worth several hundred dollars and they function exactly the same as the base guns. They litterally have all the content and are just paying for skins. Imagine if the Maddog and Catapult were exactly the same in every way, but were just visually different.

This game is honestly the most money fair game I've played.

lol no.

Putting clans behind a six month paywall, only to target nerf them as they released for c-bills. Sorry, bro.

[bobF]

Brody, you getting paid to shill for PGI?

If you're thinking to yourself "what kind of mouthbreathing chump pays 80+ dollars for less content than the most skimpy, cash-grab DLC ever," then you have some modicum of genuine discernment. Good job, you are among the last hope for the species.

[MischiefSC]

It's the nature of F2P.

Here's the simple principle for PvP F2P:

1. Players are the content. It's not that enemy AI are too complex to make; that's flat out silly. Of course you can make AI to pilot mechs, just that people don't feel as competitive playing against AI.

2. The basic F2P stuff is ugly but functional and has some limitations that can be eliminated by money. Wrapped up with #1, you have a sense of competitiveness driving the desire to spend money to look better and cooler than other people. So you charge money for everything that does that.

3. Free players are simply content. Paying players need just enough of an advantage that they feel like they are getting an edge by paying money - for example getting something early. By the time it's out for free everyone knows the strengths and weaknesses and it's been nerfed and other stuff buffed. End of the day you need to make a money-spending playing have just a bit of an advantage over a F2P player. Enough that they're motivated to keep spending to stay ahead of the release curve, not so much that the F2P content targets for them to shoot realize they're playing at a perpetual disadvantage, on the back side of the curve.

If you're not spending money you are content for those of us who do. That's how the system works; that's why you can play the game for free. So that we have someone to feel like we're better than. We look better and have newer, better mechs and gear than you. If you're a F2P player you need to understand that those of us who spend money have a significant edge over you. We earn between 30 and 80% more cbills per match and we do it across a variety of mechs. We've had a lot of experience with almost every mech and build. We've got hundreds of thousands, even millions of GXP because we spend MC to convert it when there's a sale. That extra cbill income gets us more modules, better modules, massive stockpiles of weapons and equipment to let us build whatever we want whenever we want. We have the best mechs sooner and get more practice in with them so that when you get your Timber Wolf it's probably been nerfed (after I got my 700 drops in mine. Literally, I got 700 drops with an effective 80% cbill and XP boost before the TW got nerfed. Like a free 40 or 50 million cbills and coverted 400k GXP from it, enough to unlock almost every good module when they were released) and we all know exactly what the strengths, weaknesses and functionality of the mech are.

The same will be true with every mech you get as F2P. We'll already have it, know it, master it and get it nerfed from the advantages it has by the time you get it.

Paying has advantages. Significant, measurable, tangible advantages over F2P players. Paying money gives me an edge over F2P players. F2P players exist to be content to be played against/beaten by paying customers.

Does that mean every paying customer is better than F2P players? No. But two people of equal skill, one F2P and one spending money on the game, the one spending money has an edge and it's more than just camo.

It's the nature of this sort of game. You want to play for free, that's great. Understand though that you will be made to feel thwarted, 2nd class and at a disadvantage to people who pay. It sucks, it's horrible and it eats at the overall 'fun' of the game. It does however keep the lights on. The other options is that everyone pays. Telemetry says that F2P tends to pay a bit better overall though in terms of investment vs return.

So, yes. Basic paints suck. They are supposed to. Selling mechs is a terrible waste of money. It's supposed to be. Waiting 6 months to get access to great mechs is crappy. That's the point. Not saying it's right, just that it's the business model we have taught developers we will pay the most for.

[bobF]

I would agree, if only the money actually gave advantage, and this is everyone's first pvp game.

Figuring out The Stuff of this game is not rocket science. For people who have more than two brain cells to rub together and enjoy online gaming as a hobby, the p2w advantage in this game is laughable. I still haven't got elite skills for any of my mechs, and bought weapon modules for just one (my currently retired DDC). There is no obvious, observable advantage the p2w player enjoys here, like you can see in other games. Maybe it's just me, but I go into every match fully confident my free tbr can blow up your golden tbr without issue; the only thing that separates pilots is skill, and that's not something you can pay for. It costs only time practicing to aim straight, drive good, or research effective builds online.

If I was a chump, I too would attempt to justify my gullibility with the e-leet pixels I just bought, and superhuman displays of power on the battlefield. As it turns out, it's just overpriced geometry and low res textures.

[Quxudica]

Brody319, on 25 November 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you wanna look at something horrid, look at TF2 and CSGO. TF2 has unusual hats that are worth 500-600 dollars each and possibly more. CS:GO has guns that are worth several hundred dollars and they function exactly the same as the base guns. They litterally have all the content and are just paying for skins. Imagine if the Maddog and Catapult were exactly the same in every way, but were just visually different.

This game is honestly the most money fair game I've played.

The best system I've seen is Path of Exile. Nothing they sell affects gameplay. That said even their model affects the game negatively in many ways.

The older I get the more I just really don't like the F2P model. When the trend first started to take root, I was for it as it seemed like a great thing. But now that significant times past I've seen rather clearly how the game always suffers from the buisness model. Artificially inflated grind, subpar art assets to push you into buying better ones, arbitrary restrictions and the piecemealing of content.. I really just wish most of the F2P games I dable in used the old buy to play standard model reall. MWO is definitely in that camp.

There probably isn't enough of a market for this kind of game to be succesfull with the traditional model, I get that. But I wish there was as there is no doubt in my mind that MWO would be a better game if it was not a F2P title.

[Vassago Rain]

C-bill blue is my favorite blue.

[Apocryph0n]

Golden Vulf, on 25 November 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Grabbing any of the current preorder packages will get you a variety of colors. It isn't for MC, but for a direct charge.

The Resistance Packs are the cheaper option, Top tier 80 bucks, 4 mechs + variants and 24 colors, and 6 camo unlocks?

Resistance Packs do not give you any Camo. Only colors. Only the Wave2 has camos in it, but only for the mechs in Wave2, not for anything else.

[Golden Vulf]

Early access to Wave 2 isn't gaining much of an advantage at all. The mechs are not fully quirked and everyone has been shouting how inferior they are to what has already been released.

Now that's not to say I haven't been having fun in my Mist Lynx, that mech is sweet as ****. I don't have any Firestarters to compare it to, but I don't pilot many Inner Smear mechs.

The only thing I'd change on the Mist Lynx would be unlocking the BAP so it can be removed, and allowing for a seventh jump jet to be mounted. And some side torso energy hard points wouldn't hurt.

Apocryph0n, on 26 November 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Resistance Packs do not give you any Camo. Only colors. Only the Wave2 has camos in it, but only for the mechs in Wave2, not for anything else.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 26 November 2014 - 12:56 AM.

[MischiefSC]

bobF, on 26 November 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

I would agree, if only the money actually gave advantage, and this is everyone's first pvp game.

Figuring out The Stuff of this game is not rocket science. For people who have more than two brain cells to rub together and enjoy online gaming as a hobby, the p2w advantage in this game is laughable. I still haven't got elite skills for any of my mechs, and bought weapon modules for just one (my currently retired DDC). There is no obvious, observable advantage the p2w player enjoys here, like you can see in other games. Maybe it's just me, but I go into every match fully confident my free tbr can blow up your golden tbr without issue; the only thing that separates pilots is skill, and that's not something you can pay for. It costs only time practicing to aim straight, drive good, or research effective builds online.

If I was a chump, I too would attempt to justify my gullibility with the e-leet pixels I just bought, and superhuman displays of power on the battlefield. As it turns out, it's just overpriced geometry and low res textures.

It's all over-priced. Way, crazy over-priced. That's not the point.

Two players; one spends money one is pure F2P. The one who spends money has an advantage. More mechs, better variety, more experience with them, more cbills and XP for the exact same effort. Significantly more. The visuals (paint/camo/etc) are just there for look. The rest? If you want to pretend that the guy with 60 mechs and the ability to play, outfit and tinker with every mech in the game doesn't have an advantage over the guy who can only handle 4 at a time and only has a handful of modules/tools at his disposal....

Well, shine on you crazy diamond.

Compare the TW as it is now to what it was 4 months ago. Same with the Dire Wolf.

Which isn't the only example. Ilya Muromets, Ember, etc. More money, more XP, more experience with more options and getting it all earlier is an advantage.

Just not a huge one, which is the point. It's enough to encourage people who spend money to keep doing so but not so much to make those who don't feel like there's no point.... but are encouraged.

It's what all the cool kids are doing!

Not a big fan of P2W.

[Apocryph0n]

*snip*

Edit: OR they want to make a sudden surprise out of it. In which case it worked out wrong, the sole reason I did not buy the Resistance pack is that the page no longer shows no sexy camo specs as faction content.

Edit2: Nevermind, found it now. Funny how they hid it behind that tiny details button. Will wait for pictures of the camos


@Mischief: Remember tho, the "PaytoWin" guy paid money. Which is his drawback.

Me for example: I have like 2 hours of play time per week (2 hours over 5 days is not a lot), and some more on weekends. How would I ever be able to grind mechs, especially since I am - lorewise and from TT a clanner. Should people that can't grind 24/7 not be able to play? atm there is no golden ammo or anything that makes your mech better that you cant grind. RL Money is just a shortcut in MWO. Except for Mechbays, yea, but their price is laughable. (If I look at the amount of time and fun I have per chassis - it's pretty good bang for buck. You can spend hundreds of bucks in one night of partying here and that's only like 6-7 hours of entertainment.)

Edited by Apocryph0n, 26 November 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Quxudica, on 25 November 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Maybe I'm just way too frugal but I can't see how anyone would look at that as anything but a rip off. You could buy the top tier collectors edition of an entire triple A game that cost millions of dollars to make for that price. I really just can't comprehend how PGI sells any of these bundles for how overpriced they are. But to each their own I guess.

There is a list of about 50 games most people haven't played that are WELL WORTH the price of 15-20 dollars they are now or are totally free. I would go so far as to list them but panties get extremely knotted and bunchy whenever anyone points out that this game is insanely overpriced.

There absolutely will be a day when the F2P thing is well ingrained in the public consciousness as a total rip-off and on that day the developers who chose to bleed players will be cast down from on high and shamed forever.

[Escef]

I have purchased no paint outside of c-bill paints. But I've purchased pre-order packs. So, in addition to basic green, blue, red, and orange, I have Phoenix red. black, and grey (more like a tan); Hot Rod black, bright red, and dark red; Invasion orange, green, and grey; and polygon white, grey, and black (more like a dark grey); with more on the way.