94 replies to this topic

[Jonny Slam]

Just played a few PUGS, as I will, and I noticed how less then 25% of the pilots brought AMS.

In this age of "OH GOD! SAVE US FROM LRMS!!! panic merchants flooding the forums with their Sob stories about the death from the sky, and how they are super great pilots who don't deserve to be shot at my stupid LRM loving noobs with no skills, I was needless to say surprised.

If you don't want to get killed by missle... mount a anti missile system.

Or I guess you could whine and beg constantly for a nerf...... but who is that pathetic?

[Brody319]

Puggers will never commit to bringing an AMS without some kind of c-bill reward encouraging them. Just the way pugs work.

[totgeboren]

Yeah, I was playing around with my CPLT-C4 I had in my garage (it was the second mech I bought ) yesterday, seeing if I could do something fun with the new quirks.
So, mounted 4xLRM10s, a medlas and a TAG, lots and lots of ammo and the cooldown module for LRM10.
Tried it a few PUG games.

In some games many had AMS, and the only way for me to get any missile through was to alpha all four LRM10s at the same time (lots of heat). That is, not only can you use terrain, speed, ECM and radar deprivation to counter LRMs, AMS is definitely an efficient means of blocking LRMs, especially Clan LRMs since they can't even alpha. If three or four mechs have AMS, you got yourself an umbrella.
I also realised why I do so well in my STK-5S. It has 2 AMS mounted! So even if I'm slow, my AMS will protect me against most of the enemy LRMs heading my way.

After using my little missile boat a few games again, I feel less sympathy for the LRM complains.

Mount an AMS if your mech isn't fast enough to simply move out of the way. Grind c-bills for the Radar deprivation module if your AMS isn't enough. There are easy counters to LRM systems, not to mention that lights sneaking up on LRM boats get free kills more or less.

Yesterday I had a firestarter sneak up on my C4, and he rather skilfully took of first one ear, then the other, and then I was a heavy with a medlas.

Take out enemy brawlers at range, and enemy range with brawlers.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Radar Derp is betta.... Learn to avoid rather than bring an umbrella. Umbrellas are for accountants

[Joseph Mallan]

Brody319, on 25 November 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Puggers will never commit to bringing an AMS without some kind of c-bill reward encouraging them. Just the way pugs work.

I PUG and all my Mechs carry AMS... So you must be talking in generalizations about some other group of players.

[Willard Phule]

I'm guessing you play in the group queue, mostly.

AMS really doesn't matter all that much in the solo queue, depending on what it is you're doing.

Consider this: Team A has 4 ECM mechs and has a total of 8 LRM launching guys. Team B has no ECM and none of them bothered to bring BAP/CAP, TAG or NARC. The amount of AMS on Team B isn't really going to matter much after about 2 minutes into the game....they'll all be out of ammo.

If you can ditch the AMS and ammo and slap in an Active Probe of either flavor, you're helping your team FAR more than if you brought an AMS that will eventually just be dead weight.

Right now, at least in the solo queue, the name of the game is "the team that covers it's LRMs with ECM the best will win." And that holds true unless the other team has way more BAP/CAP than your team has ECM.

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2014 - 03:17 AM, said:

I PUG and all my Mechs carry AMS... So you must be talking in generalizations about some other group of players.

......and you use BAP. Hush, you.

[The Boz]

Radar derp has a size of 0 and weight of 0, AMS only takes out 3 missiles aimed at you, 1-5 aimed at a friend near you, in an ideal case. Missiles that AMS takes out are not a direct reduction of damage, because it does not distinguish between missiles that are going to hit and missiles that are not. An entire lance standing together sharing AMS to protect themselves from the dreaded LRM15 is very vulnerable to strikes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 26 November 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

I'm guessing you play in the group queue, mostly.

AMS really doesn't matter all that much in the solo queue, depending on what it is you're doing.

Consider this: Team A has 4 ECM mechs and has a total of 8 LRM launching guys. Team B has no ECM and none of them bothered to bring BAP/CAP, TAG or NARC. The amount of AMS on Team B isn't really going to matter much after about 2 minutes into the game....they'll all be out of ammo.

If you can ditch the AMS and ammo and slap in an Active Probe of either flavor, you're helping your team FAR more than if you brought an AMS that will eventually just be dead weight.

Right now, at least in the solo queue, the name of the game is "the team that covers it's LRMs with ECM the best will win." And that holds true unless the other team has way more BAP/CAP than your team has ECM.



......and you use BAP. Hush, you.

Bap is the sound effect used when I cuff people trying to put words in my mouth...

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 November 2014 - 03:34 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

OP is right, about 20% or less of PUGs bring AMS...which is why I don't bring AMS and I PUG.

If I dedicate 1.5 or 2 tons to AMS, and the crit space in the location it has to go, the following happens...

I'm in a match and LRMs are incoming...
My AMS only blocks a small portion, so I still get hit and take damage. My AMS is also trying to help surrounding PUGs who are out in the open and getting rained on. Within a couple minutes, my AMS ammo is gone anyway.

So, I dedicate 1.5 to 2 tons of AMS. I still take damage, my team still takes damage, and it is gone soon (especially if my team doesn't believe in taking cover and I am near them).

It's not worth it. Id rather use the tonnage and crit space for something else and take radar derp or stay near cover when LRMs seem present.

Very few builds I carry AMS, and it is normally when I have extra room and tons after the build I want and am like...ehh, I guess AMS.

Maybe if more PUGs carried AMS, it would be worth it because we could actually stop LRMs for real, but I'm not going to set a trend by always bringing AMS, so it isn't worth it.

Maybe if AMS was way more powerful (maybe it is with the AMS modules, never tried them *shrug*), but as it stands now, nah, I'll pass on AMS.

[Willard Phule]

The Boz, on 26 November 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Radar derp has a size of 0 and weight of 0, AMS only takes out 3 missiles aimed at you, 1-5 aimed at a friend near you, in an ideal case. Missiles that AMS takes out are not a direct reduction of damage, because it does not distinguish between missiles that are going to hit and missiles that are not. An entire lance standing together sharing AMS to protect themselves from the dreaded LRM15 is very vulnerable to strikes.

That part, right there, is where MW:O's AMS differs from TT's AMS. In BT/TT, your AMS only fires at one group of missiles coming at you.....if someone fires 2 LRM15s at you and you have a single AMS, you get to pick which launcher to apply it to.

Here, it just spazzes until you're out of ammo. Worst thing you can do is get the extended range for the AMS...it just makes it burn ammo all the faster.

[The Boz]

I also hate it when it burns through ammo firing at walls and rocks and ceilings, and shutting it down every single time I get behind a building is really fiddly.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 26 November 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

I also hate it when it burns through ammo firing at walls and rocks and ceilings, and shutting it down every single time I get behind a building is really fiddly.

A bug that kinda needs to be fixed eventually.

[Thunder Child]

The curious thing is, I've seen an entire salvo of LRMs get shot out of the air, by the lance of mechs UNDER the Carpark on Crimson. The missiles were headed to their teammate at the far end, but despite their ams not having los, it still fired and eliminated the salvo. Need to check this for other caves/tunnels to see if it is still neutralising through walls.

[The Boz]

Thunder Child, on 26 November 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

The curious thing is, I've seen an entire salvo of LRMs get shot out of the air, by the lance of mechs UNDER the Carpark on Crimson. The missiles were headed to their teammate at the far end, but despite their ams not having los, it still fired and eliminated the salvo. Need to check this for other caves/tunnels to see if it is still neutralising through walls.

CryEngine differentiates between "terrain" and "structures", so it's possible that AMS can shoot through a "structure" such as the HPG or the mentioned carpark, but not through a mountain.

[Vassago Rain]

One AMS shoots down about 4 missiles.

Clan robots throw on 30 tubes largely for free.

If you add both AMS modules, you'll have 10% increase in DPS, for 4.4 missiles, and you start shooting them about one second sooner.

Do the math.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 26 November 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

One AMS shoots down about 4 missiles.

Clan robots throw on 30 tubes largely for free.

If you add both AMS modules, you'll have 10% increase in DPS, for 4.4 missiles, and you start shooting them about one second sooner.

Do the math.

AMS never EVER shot down more than a handful of Missiles and only shot the first salvo fired. So a wily player shot an SRM2 first then the LRM20s for AMS free damage!

[MeiSooHaityu]

That's why AMS is more of a group drop item and less a PUG drop item. A huge AMS umbrella from a coordinated drop might be useful, but one lone AMS in a PUG drop is lackluster.

That's why AMS wont catch on as is in PUG drops. AMS is too weak by itself to be worth it.

[James DeGriz]

"if you don't like LRMS. MOVE OUT OF THE WAY WHEN YOU'RE BEING HIT BY THEM".

Lost count of the number of people I've seen standing out in the open while being pummelled to death by three or four LRM salvos at once and make absolutely no attempt at all to MOVE. They'll die in about 20 seconds, then log out.

You could bring all the rewards you want to LRM counters, but if players are unwilling to do something as basic as that, what hope do we have?

[Kensaisama]

Oh look, a bring AMS thread

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 November 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

That's why AMS is more of a group drop item and less a PUG drop item. A huge AMS umbrella from a coordinated drop might be useful, but one lone AMS in a PUG drop is lackluster.

That's why AMS wont catch on as is in PUG drops. AMS is too weak by itself to be worth it.

This is kinda spiting your face thinking ain't it?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 November 2014 - 05:17 AM.