142 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

No tto sound mean...but use better cover? I find if I use buildings and such 50% higher than me, it tends to block them jsut fine.

the bloody things average about 30% accuracy for a reason.

It might be up to a whopping 35% with NARC useful and ECM not god mode cloaking anymore, but they are seriously still the least accurate and efficient weapon in the game.

And this coming from a guy with neither ECM or AMS on the majority of his mechs. Or LRMs.

Use cover, not concealment.

[Mercules]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

Use cover, not concealment.

Bah, you only need cover if you are wandering around in a sub 60kph mech without ECM or AMS around. If you go faster than that then concealment will break LoS and the missiles will fly to the last spot they "saw you at" then swoop down and straight forward. All you have to do is take a step perpendicular to their flight path and they don't hit you.

I am seriously going to have to get my 12-year-old playing this game so I can show him how to do it then come back here and claim "It's so easy a child can do it."

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

mrpetzold, on 27 November 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

You are kidding, right? I really hope it for your own sake.
I know you are a newb-lurmer, and probably the most "famous" of them all. "I take it youre new". Seriously..

Not kidding, and you must be new if you think they need to be nerfed yet again lol

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

No tto sound mean...but use better cover? I find if I use buildings and such 50% higher than me, it tends to block them jsut fine.

the bloody things average about 30% accuracy for a reason.

It might be up to a whopping 35% with NARC useful and ECM not god mode cloaking anymore, but they are seriously still the least accurate and efficient weapon in the game.

And this coming from a guy with neither ECM or AMS on the majority of his mechs. Or LRMs.

Use cover, not concealment.

all of this OP, in short, learn to play.

I know you dont wanna hear that but do that instead of tearing up here

[Urdnot Mau]

Abivard, on 27 November 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

You think it is unreasonable to expose your legs to fire for over 10 seconds and suffer damage?

Just how much time under fire do you think should pass before you take real damage? 30 seconds? 45 seconds? A minute? never?

how F**ed up are you to twist someone's words like that?
maybe you're just F*** stupid.
You think that time was the point of my argument?
jesus christ

Mercules, on 27 November 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

Hmmmm... How many Dual Gauss salvos would it take to leg you? How many LPL Salvos?

Except those guns actually take aiming skills to do that. If LRMs moving downwards as they get close to you is worse than streaks aiming for CT only

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 27 November 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[NautilusCommand]

Urdnot Mau, on 27 November 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

how F**ed up are you to twist someone's words like that?
maybe you're just F*** stupid.
You think that time was the point of my argument?
jesus christ

thelrmdefenseforce.png

[NautilusCommand]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 November 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

Not kidding, and you must be new if you think they need to be nerfed yet again lol



all of this OP, in short, learn to play.

I know you dont wanna hear that but do that instead of tearing up here

All of this, in short, I don't think understand what I was saying. So uhhh you can piss-off.

Edited by NautilusCommand, 27 November 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[mrpetzold]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 November 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

Not kidding, and you must be new if you think they need to be nerfed yet again lol

I think you misunderstood my post. Although, regarding how incredible easy it is to do 1k dmg in a lurmboat against the "no-top" ELO-bracket it might be to easy to use. Probably why you use it?
Especially some maps where the cover is close to non-existence with the current AOA.
Btw, during no-peak times where the amount of players is low there is usually 6-8 lurmboats on each side, do you think that is a good thing?

[Troutmonkey]

The thing I don't like about lrms is that compared to direct fire weapons, you can't limit how many people your are engaging.

With LRM one mech with LoS equals 12 potential sources of missiles within 1000m. With direct fire weapons it's very difficult to be in LoS of the entire enemy team at once unless you're really unlucky or just really stupid.

LRMs seem pretty balanced right now in comparison to previsios LRMpocalypses, however I'd still like to see passes on LRM balance to make them much more viable for direct fire, and less overwhelming for indirect fire. That way LRMs are still viable but people won't feel overwhelmed and take fire from 12 mechs without being able to see any of them or return fire.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 27 November 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[Mercules]

mrpetzold, on 27 November 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

I think you misunderstood my post. Although, regarding how incredible easy it is to do 1k dmg in a lurmboat against the "no-top" ELO-bracket it might be to easy to use. Probably why you use it?
Especially some maps where the cover is close to non-existence with the current AOA.
Btw, during no-peak times where the amount of players is low there is usually 6-8 lurmboats on each side, do you think that is a good thing?

The amount of damage LRMs do is inversely related to the skill of the target.

There is no map where cover is non-existent.

If you get hit with LRMs you probably made a mistake. I make mistakes and occasionally get hit with LRMs. If this happens to you a lot.... well.... I know you don't want to hear it, but you probably need to figure something out because they are literally the weakest viable weapons in the game. (Flamers just are not viable at all)

[Kyle Lewis]

Urdnot Mau, on 27 November 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

It is not reasonable when you get legged in a heavy by 2-3 salvos of a LRM boat while you're running for cover

It's ridiculous

stop shaving your legs then, cause that is the only way your going to get legged in a heavy.

[STEF_]

To OP, have you ever tried to use radar depr. while hiding?

Without los, lrm salvo cannot hit you at all, even with low buildings.

edit, forgot to write my motto: LRMs are terribad

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 27 November 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[NautilusCommand]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 November 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

To OP, have you ever tried to use radar depr. while hiding?

Without los, lrm salvo cannot hit you at all, even with low buildings.

edit, forgot to write my motto: LRMs are terribad

Spending too much of my dosh on new clan mechs, might when the dust settles.

[Tincan Nightmare]

OP don't bother. Every time its the same thing in regards to complaints about LRM's. First it will be the list of counters you can use (ECM, AMS, etc.) followed by 'use cover, if your getting hit your a bad player'. The worst will be those that say higher level players never use LRM's as they are useless in high level play, and are only bad in PUG matches where all the unskilled players hang out. And after they make that statement, it will be followed by another stating that LRM's are in a good place finally ( ) and they need to be left alone ( ). So evidently LRM's SHOULD be useless in high level play, and a constant complaint and irritant for new players and those that like to PUG.

Its sad, because instead you would think these 'high level' players could come up with ideas on how to make LRM's both more effective at higher levels while not being a nuisance for newer/PUG players, but nope lets stick with the status quo and keep them just for farming cbills in PUG matches and earning points in challenges. GG close.

[mrpetzold]

Mercules, on 27 November 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

The amount of damage LRMs do is inversely related to the skill of the target.

There is no map where cover is non-existent.

Okey, you should atleast try to read and understand what this thread is really about. But since you haven't im still gonna take the time to answer you.
First, please tell me where to find the cover on a map like caustic valley? And I mean cover without having to move through 1000 meter in the open. Also, remember this:


Things that doesn't count since having many several mechs in these position means being stomped 12-0
- The pipes in the little "city" B3
- Behind the ridge 2-line
- Behind the two rocks by the water F4 and E5

Other things to remember:
- The two "mountains" D5 does not work as cover because of AOA, which is what this thread is about
- The caulderaridge does not work as cover because of AOA.
- This thread is mainly about soloque, where you dont have the VOIP that can tell someone about narc/UAV's/ECM-spotters effective.

And one more thing at the end. How can the to use your own words "the weakest viable weapons in the game" be so easy to get minimum 1000 damage, especially on caustic? I can agree that it is the weakest viable weapons against the top-units. But thats not what this thread is about at all. Its about the AOA, which makes alot of maps to have much less cover.

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 November 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

To OP, have you ever tried to use radar depr. while hiding?

Without los, lrm salvo cannot hit you at all, even with low buildings.

edit, forgot to write my motto: LRMs are terribad

This is just untrue. Because of shared information the mech with the lurms DO NOT NEED LINE OF SIGHT. They can just stand behind, holding 1 button without having to aim. Lurms are terrible against the top units. But thats not what this thread is about, is it?

Edited by mrpetzold, 27 November 2014 - 11:25 PM.

[RiggsIron]

Captain Stiffy, on 27 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

LRMs are finally in a good place. The constant whining is now unwarranted. Stop.

No they are not. Not it is not.
No.

[Captain Stiffy]

RiggsIron, on 27 November 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

No they are not. Not it is not.
No.

63 posts. I'm sure you've been around a long time and have read all the best arguments about it and experienced 3 LRMpocalypse's. OR no. They are in a good place.

They don't suck
They aren't instant kill
If you don't suck they aren't a huge issue

They are in a good place.

[STEF_]

mrpetzold, on 27 November 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

This is just untrue. Because of shared information the mech with the lurms DO NOT NEED LINE OF SIGHT. LRMS are terrible against the top unit. But thats not what this thread is about, is it?

If there is a shared info, this means that an enemy still has los to you.

Rarad depr warns you both visual (lil flash) and sound (bleep) every time someone gets los or lose los to you.
I can say that I rarely have problem with lrm, and, when radar depr on, I quite never get hit by.
And I sure you I don't hide all time
It's happens because lrm speed is just too damn slow!

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 27 November 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[RiggsIron]

Reitrix, on 27 November 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

A more shallow angle out of the launcher, especially in Direct Fire engagements would also make the LRMs 10x more useful in places like Crimson ...

Getting hit while having your face firmly planted into a building that should be providing cover just feels crap.

Indeed.

Unless a target is narced or tagged - that should be the only avenue for indirect fire.

Mechs can be snuck up on by heavy/assault mechs unless you spend 12 million in modules per mech, as mechs 1000 years in the future dont have rear view mirrors or cameras behind them (or seismic sensors by default) - but without any upgrades all LRMs can auto lock onto any target as soon as a single person a km away is in visual range of another mech - and that data is sent along as well as instantly compensating for movement? Yeah no.

Hypocrisy is what it is.

[SerratedBlaze]

I feel like missiles have become more maneuverable around terrain both in vertical and side/side angles recently. And to some degree its nice, But I agree it's a tad much.

The difficult thing about missiles is finding a place for them to fit. I think that 1-3 LRM5s are a great side weapon to ballistics to harass a known target that happened to get over a hill for a moment while you pursue, and that quad 15s with cd mod in a mastered awesome 8R is dedicated rain of doom and should be worth the assault slot.

Thing is they aren't so light as to be the sidearm they should be since lasers are weight and slot efficient unless the primary weapon is LPL/PPC in which case heat sinks need to be added. Missiles generate enough heat to be poor sidearms for these hot builds too though.

And with so many variants getting bigger launchers recently the volly size has been upped which should mean less screenshake but clans undo that (i hate the screenshake from point blank chainfire clrm).

My solution: make disengage time much shorter (even with the module) so that spotting is rewarded. Reduce angle of attack sideways and up/down very slightly, and tighten cluster so those who use them as primary with good targeting can do some damage. I used to run 2 lrm20+A with tag and the spread is still pathetic. The other good thing about tightened cluster is they will ALL miss more often, fewer leg shots randomly making it through.

Edited by SerratedBlaze, 27 November 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[RiggsIron]

Mystere, on 27 November 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Then go join a group. Don't ruin a weapon just because there is no one to carry you.

So a weapon that is ONLY balanced for groups large enough to build around LRMs sounds fair to you?

You dont sound like you understand what balance is. Or that MMOs exist also outside of your groups.

Or are you just plainly saying anyone that is not in a group should just accept not having fun - or quit?
I dont see you paying for others gameplay - but you think you get to say solo queue shouldnt get to enjoy the game?

Logic!