93 replies to this topic

[Viges]

mania3c, on 30 November 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

Man..mechwarrior needs new players more than it needs you... without new players, no mechwarrior..your way of thinking is just flawed and stupid..

Mechwarrior needs many things, but tons of casuals with gamepads that can only win or whine? Nope.

[mania3c]

Viges, on 30 November 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

Mechwarrior needs many things, but tons of casuals with gamepads that can only win or whine? Nope.

If they would whine without reasons..maybe I would agree with you but whines are justified because of bad design..

[Willard Phule]

There's a reason they removed groups of any size from the solo queue, but apparently the OP wasn't around for that.

Personally, I have no problem with 2 man groups in the Solo Queue....as long as there's a tradeoff.

We get stuck with the perpetually incompetent and "new players" in every single match in the solo queue. If we allow groups in the solo queue, then it's only fair that the group queue gets to use solo "new players" to fill their matches instead of smaller groups.

We get the guys the groups have to carry, they get the guys we have to carry. Fair trade.

[Nostram]

I would prefer to not be dropped into the solo queue when I am grouped with other people, even if it is only one person. If this were put back in I would like the option to choose group queue only.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Willard Phule, on 30 November 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

There's a reason they removed groups of any size from the solo queue, but apparently the OP wasn't around for that.

Personally, I have no problem with 2 man groups in the Solo Queue....as long as there's a tradeoff.

We get stuck with the perpetually incompetent and "new players" in every single match in the solo queue. If we allow groups in the solo queue, then it's only fair that the group queue gets to use solo "new players" to fill their matches instead of smaller groups.

We get the guys the groups have to carry, they get the guys we have to carry. Fair trade.

I hardly ever see new players in solo. Maybe my elo is much higher than yours? Cant imagine that as i am not very good.

Still Haven't seen a noob in a long time.

[Viges]

mania3c, on 30 November 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

If they would whine without reasons..maybe I would agree with you but whines are justified because of bad design..

Yea how it is unfair and horrible experience for a group to play against other groups but ok against solo players, that design is so bad.

[KuroNyra]

Viges, on 30 November 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Yea how it is unfair and horrible experience for a group to play against other groups but ok against solo players, that design is so bad.

When 2 guy want to play together and are forced to fight group of Clans and mercenary grouped in 4, using TS, Mumble and others material to talk to each other.
Yeah, it's pretty bad.

There is no sort of design for the groupe of casual player just wanting to play together.
At the moment, we just have a gross separation of Solo player considered has PUGS and thus not important by some douchebag.

And the "elite" (yes, some people like to think they are the elite, hopefully it's not everyone case.) playing in group only "having more right than the others." (again for the douchebags.)

There is nothing between, if you want to invite a friend to try the game, and he lik it. Screw it, you can't play with them because you will be forced to fight guys who could eat him alive in a 1 vs 1, so let's not talk about 4 vs 1.

And yes, that is a problem. Problem in the past was group of +4 to full team facing Pugs. Not a group of 2 guy on a team facing another team of pug with there own group of 2 guy.

Edited by KuroNyra, 30 November 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Now this thread is looking like something from a year ago. Welcome back topic, you have been missed

[KuroNyra]

Mickey Knoxx, on 30 November 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Now this thread is looking like something from a year ago. Welcome back topic, you have been missed

Who made the cake for his return?

[Mudhutwarrior]

The whole argument is moot when you have so many defending synch drops into solo. Just synch drop.

[Redacted]

Frankly having the ability of comms with two men I could do a lot of damage to a twelve man. Solo I can put hurt on a synch drop. May not win but if I can make the bast,,, work for it its worth the price of admission.

I wont though as its a clear unfair advatage in solo. But if you do look for me. Let me know. I will do my best to hurt you.

Edited by John Wolf, 05 December 2014 - 05:22 AM.
Unconstructive

[KuroNyra]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

The whole argument is moot when you have so many defending synch drops into solo. Just synch drop.

[Redacted]

Frankly having the ability of comms with two men I could do a lot of damage to a twelve man. Solo I can put hurt on a synch drop. May not win but if I can make the bast,,, work for it its worth the price of admission.

I wont though as its a clear unfair advatage in solo. But if you do look for me. Let me know. I will do my best to hurt you.

If you have to use synch drop to play with your friend. There is a problem.

Edited by John Wolf, 05 December 2014 - 05:22 AM.
Moderated Quote

[mania3c]

Viges, on 30 November 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Yea how it is unfair and horrible experience for a group to play against other groups but ok against solo players, that design is so bad.

You really don't get it..

we all know solo play and group play are very different beasts.. .except 2 man have much more common with solo play compared to medium-large group play..PGI is basically punishing playing with friend... and it's not just my experience.

some statistics...do you know what is the most common group size in any MMO, team based or cooperation game since..well..video games went mainstream? it's 2 by large margin..these groups are the most casual groups you can find in this industry.yet...PGI decided they wont support these people..because..you know..two guys talking to each other, chatting on facebook, or just laughing together, listening music in 12v12 is too hardcore for other people.. it's non-sense and I really can't get my head around how people can't see this .. if someone want to have some impact in MWO..they will form larger group.

Of course..there may be some hardcore try-hard two man groups..which would have some serious impact in 5v5 game or something..but in 12v12?? no way..not in this reality/universe/dimension.. and best part is..noone ever blamed 2-man groups for anything...never ever..it was always about sync drops or about 4 man groups..which actually have large impact. my little conspiracy theory is, that they just don't have tech to separate 4-man groups from 2-man groups...so they twist some posts on the forum and just telling us "player asked for it" (which never happen) and call it a day because some people will cover their backs with some weird stories, how two man group ruined solo games...it's really facepalm worthy..

Edited by mania3c, 30 November 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[L A V A]

I know a number of folks who used to drop in a 2 man configuration. Just buds who wanted to play together.

Ever since the new group/single queue was introduced those folks have stopped playing.

When you drop solo, take a look around. The place used to be full of green mechs, but not anymore. Maybe it is my elo, but I really don't think so.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

The whole argument is moot when you have so many defending synch drops into solo. Just synch drop.

[Redacted]

Frankly having the ability of comms with two men I could do a lot of damage to a twelve man. Solo I can put hurt on a synch drop. May not win but if I can make the bast,,, work for it its worth the price of admission.

I wont though as its a clear unfair advatage in solo. But if you do look for me. Let me know. I will do my best to hurt you.

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 05 December 2014 - 05:22 AM.
Moderated Quote

[burns]

Cannot fully agree with OP.


Out of 15 people i brought into MWO only one still plays regulary with me.

When i drop with that one guy, group queue is not a problem at all - i think we even win more there than we do in solo drops. He´s not a bad player though and knows the game quite well.


On the other hand, recently i tried bringing someone else into the game, he was very reluctant to read up on stuff beforehand or even configure his fricking keyboard layout ... so off we go into the group queue - one minute later his trial assault lay dead in the sands of tourmaline (rly ****** spawn position) while i was running away in my hunchie.

Guy uninstalled the game instantly, and swore never to install again because "i left him to die"


So there´s that. People who can cope with competition, and newbs who don´t.

Edited by burns, 30 November 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Quaamik]

PGI had a fix suggested, multiple times and on multiple threads, to counter the small groups (2 - 4) in PUGs. It was in game VOiP for each team.

Think, what is the huge advantage that a 4 man group holds that allows one 4 man to dominate a 12 v 12 match? Its not rehearsed tactics, or skill, its communication. Eliminate the communication gap and they are not a problem.

Instead, since PGI did not want to institute VOiP, they split the queues and lumped 2 man groups in the group queue.

Personally, even without VOiP, I think they should make the 2 mans drop in whatever slot is available first, solo or group.

Edited by Quaamik, 30 November 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

EnzyteBob82, on 29 November 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

I started this thread because I feel that having an enjoyable experience whilst playing this game with a buddy should be an option. Right now, it isn't. The only option is to sync drop and hope for the best. Otherwise it equates to lost match after lost match.

And the rate at which I personally get put in a match against a 12 man as a 2 man happens at perhaps a 1 in 3-4 match rate. That's pretty bad. Sometimes it even worse depending on the time of day. So yes, it's frequent enough........

If 8 mans and up were restricted to ONLY playing a group of comparable size, say + or - 1, I would have no issues. The playing field would be equal. I don't see this happening because the wait times would be redic, however. 3 player groups in solo is too much though, I agree.

I don't see why they should spoil the fun for groups of two by limiting them only to the group pool just to appease the bigger groups. At the end of the day, a group of two is NOT going to dominate a match in the solo pool. They WILL get dominated in the group pool, though.

As was said, axe instead of a scalpel. Break out the small knife PGI! Groups of two in the solo would in fact be a happy medium in which there are no losers.

Agreed. As a long time early beta player, I can attest to the fact that I cannot get any of my friends to play mechwarrior. This game is the absolute most unfriendly game to play with a friend and allowing groups of 2 in the solo que would be a great compromise.

[Willard Phule]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 November 2014 - 04:43 AM, said:

I hardly ever see new players in solo. Maybe my elo is much higher than yours? Cant imagine that as i am not very good.

Still Haven't seen a noob in a long time.

Considering that we haven't heard anything concrete about how the Elo/Matchmaker works lately, you may very well be correct.

To be completely honest, there is no way anyone could compile an explanation of how that system works, with links to Developer information on these forums, without using information from well over a year ago. And it's been 5-6 months since the matchmaker was re-written, so even some of that information would be out of date.

I can tell you some things about what I've experienced and you can draw your own conclusions. The primary thing to keep in mind is the primary timeframe I play in. I play primarily from 4am-6:30am, Mountain time. Occasionally, I might get a couple of matches in the after noon, but not enough to really get a feel for it.

I know that I am, in no way, as good as some of these competitive players. Not by a long shot. But I've been playing in the Solo Queue exclusively for a long time. Knowing what to anticipate, in as far as what sort of bad individual performance to expect, goes a long way to your personal stats.....however that factors into whatever weird math they use to determine your Elo. I'm pretty sure that were I to join a group, I would be a tactical liability to whatever team I ended up on. Solo queue habits do not work there....and vice versa. They're two different worlds.

During the time I play, it is a complete hodge-podge of players in any given team. Most of the time, less than half of them speak a common language. Many times, especially from 5am-6:30am, we end up with a lot of lower ranked players. I actually ask my team how many of them are new. Barring the answers from the smart-asses, you'd be surprised how many confess to having started playing a couple of days ago, yesterday morning, etc. It can be as many as 4-5 per team.

So, whatever mechanic it is that places them in a match full of people that have been playing this game for well over a year (I'm not the only one out of the 24), can unzoom without looking at their hands so they don't shoot their teammates in the back or bumble off the face of the planet, understand the importance of countering the other team's ECM regardless of your feelings about LRMs and other assorted important things that we "get" and they don't, it's doing it well.

The claims of "the better you are, the more you have to carry" isn't just a slogan to chant while making sure everyone knows your displeasure with PGI. It's an honest to God feeling you get if you play more than 3 or 4 matches in a row without getting up and taking a rage break. Seriously.

And, please...PLEASE...don't tell me to "teach them how to play." I'm absolutely sick and tired of hearing it. I've been playing this game for well over a year. At which point do I get to play with other people that have been playing long enough to not be matches that are considered "appropriate for new players?"

I'm sick and tired of PG and PG-13 rated matches. You know the ones....80% of the team has LRMs and no way to cut the other team's ECM. They stand still, zoom in, and wait for targets. The first time they get a lock is when they're getting ran ove by a herd of brawlers......or.....your team has a single ECM mech. Instead of staying with the group and sharing the love (because there hasn't been a bonus for it), he runs off to pretend to be Carlos Hathcock with either an ERPPC or a couple of ERLLs.

I want to play with other people that know how to spell BAP. I want to play with people that know that having 4 ERPPCs and a .5 heat efficiency might not be a good build. I want to play with people that actually have the letter "R" painted on their keyboard....and can find it without looking at their hands.

The new players get extra cbills for having to put up with the crap they take from us... it's called a "cadet bonus." When do I get paid a "cadre bonus" for having to lose over and over and over because Forrest Gump thinks shooting his friends in the back with an AC20 is a friendly way to say "hi?"

[Dirkdaring]

Sandpit, on 29 November 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

They didn't "knee jerk" anything. The complaints were non-stop and flooding the forums and twitter. Whether you agree with it or not this wasn't a "small minority" complaint. Tons of those in the solo queues were complaining everywhere they could.

Seriously, stuff like this makes it seem like PGI just did whatever without any regards to the community. It was the community that asked for it. At least get the facts straight

BS. I read this forum daily. Put your money where your mouth is. Show some threads where people complained about 2 mans in solo queue. We'll wait.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Willard Phule, on 30 November 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Considering that we haven't heard anything concrete about how the Elo/Matchmaker works lately, you may very well be correct.

To be completely honest, there is no way anyone could compile an explanation of how that system works, with links to Developer information on these forums, without using information from well over a year ago. And it's been 5-6 months since the matchmaker was re-written, so even some of that information would be out of date.

I can tell you some things about what I've experienced and you can draw your own conclusions. The primary thing to keep in mind is the primary timeframe I play in. I play primarily from 4am-6:30am, Mountain time. Occasionally, I might get a couple of matches in the after noon, but not enough to really get a feel for it.

I know that I am, in no way, as good as some of these competitive players. Not by a long shot. But I've been playing in the Solo Queue exclusively for a long time. Knowing what to anticipate, in as far as what sort of bad individual performance to expect, goes a long way to your personal stats.....however that factors into whatever weird math they use to determine your Elo. I'm pretty sure that were I to join a group, I would be a tactical liability to whatever team I ended up on. Solo queue habits do not work there....and vice versa. They're two different worlds.

During the time I play, it is a complete hodge-podge of players in any given team. Most of the time, less than half of them speak a common language. Many times, especially from 5am-6:30am, we end up with a lot of lower ranked players. I actually ask my team how many of them are new. Barring the answers from the smart-asses, you'd be surprised how many confess to having started playing a couple of days ago, yesterday morning, etc. It can be as many as 4-5 per team.

So, whatever mechanic it is that places them in a match full of people that have been playing this game for well over a year (I'm not the only one out of the 24), can unzoom without looking at their hands so they don't shoot their teammates in the back or bumble off the face of the planet, understand the importance of countering the other team's ECM regardless of your feelings about LRMs and other assorted important things that we "get" and they don't, it's doing it well.

The claims of "the better you are, the more you have to carry" isn't just a slogan to chant while making sure everyone knows your displeasure with PGI. It's an honest to God feeling you get if you play more than 3 or 4 matches in a row without getting up and taking a rage break. Seriously.

And, please...PLEASE...don't tell me to "teach them how to play." I'm absolutely sick and tired of hearing it. I've been playing this game for well over a year. At which point do I get to play with other people that have been playing long enough to not be matches that are considered "appropriate for new players?"

I'm sick and tired of PG and PG-13 rated matches. You know the ones....80% of the team has LRMs and no way to cut the other team's ECM. They stand still, zoom in, and wait for targets. The first time they get a lock is when they're getting ran ove by a herd of brawlers......or.....your team has a single ECM mech. Instead of staying with the group and sharing the love (because there hasn't been a bonus for it), he runs off to pretend to be Carlos Hathcock with either an ERPPC or a couple of ERLLs.

I want to play with other people that know how to spell BAP. I want to play with people that know that having 4 ERPPCs and a .5 heat efficiency might not be a good build. I want to play with people that actually have the letter "R" painted on their keyboard....and can find it without looking at their hands.

The new players get extra cbills for having to put up with the crap they take from us... it's called a "cadet bonus." When do I get paid a "cadre bonus" for having to lose over and over and over because Forrest Gump thinks shooting his friends in the back with an AC20 is a friendly way to say "hi?"

Definitely must be the time frame. I am on hours before you and maybe some after as I am eastern. Start around 430 am til maybe 8 am then later in the day in afternoon drive time. I hit mostly the same players in the morning as there is a slot the groups synching fall into. I assume before school because of the antics and chat displayed. If I get lucky to stay awake in the evening some of the real good players come out and the best matches generally. If I cant sleep 2am to 4am eastern is mostly the EU and Russia and no matter what is said the Russians are usually very good and worth the lack of sleep. The EU players are a mixed bag like American just with less E-peen.

Dirkdaring, on 30 November 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

BS. I read this forum daily. Put your money where your mouth is. Show some threads where people complained about 2 mans in solo queue. We'll wait.

Don't question the self appointed expert of MWO..