444 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

Water Bear, on 02 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

As a guy who owns Atlases and a Whale, I just don't believe you. Have you ever launched in an Atlas and spawned in a lance with a whale? The 7 kph difference between speeds means that over short distances it looks like you're traveling at the same speed. You have to walk a long way to notice a speed difference that small.

I've noticed the same is even true of heavy mechs. Moving at 71 kph vs 60 is an 11 kph difference. A legged Awesome moves faster than that. And that's so slow that you're almost not moving.

The difference in twist speeds is more noticeable.



I might not know the best clan mechs, but the Timber and Whale are both far better in their respective categories than 90% of IS mechs. In an IS vs. Clan comparison, then, the clans win in my mind because they have the best heavy and the best assault (and because of the storm crow, probably the best medium, too).

well maybe the IS shouldn't have bombed itself stupid, then they might be able to build mechs that aren't garbage.

[Timuroslav]

Gyrok, on 02 December 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Clan Ballistics < IS Ballistics (PP FLD = WIN)
Clan SRMs < IS SRMs (IS SRMs do more damage per missile)
Clan LRMs < IS LRMs (IS LRMs have a nasty bunch fire mechanic, clans cannot touch this)
Clan Energy ~ IS Energy (Clans have ~15% more range + ~15-20% more damage for ~40% more heat...a debatable trade...IS has std PPC + short beams)
Clan Chassis < IS Chassis (Customization is king here...)

Clan SRMs are Lighter weapons and get what? less than 0.60 Less damage in one Srm 6 volley? The heat is the same so you're wrong there and They're Half the WEIGHT.
Clan Lrms can be used at Point Blank in pure Lrms Builds. Even if it's exponential decay damage. At least they can fight mechs off. Also Clan LRM screen shake of Doom.

Clan can make their own Mech variants with Omni pod swaps so you're wrong there
Oh and the Clan Case is WAY better than IS case

Damage Speed and Distance are clear advantage to a little bit longer duration time and more heat.

Your Strongest Argument is the Lrms and Ballistics.
You're dead wrong about SRMs and customization though.
You're right about Lasers, they're debatable.
Customization ends up being about the same.
Innersphere mechs can only insert what hard points they have on the Chasis.

Clan Mechs?
I don't like the hard points NEW OMNI POD
There Fixed. Lego mechs too stronk

Also the argument everyone is ignoring.
Clans have bigger weapon variety.

Edited by Timuroslav, 02 December 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Water Bear, on 02 December 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Is there any other mech in the game that's scary when it's not looking at you?

If you are scared when they are not looking at you, I dunno what to tell you. I just see "LUNCH".

Timuroslav, on 02 December 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Clan SRMs are Lighter weapons and get what? less than 0.60 Less damage in one Srm 6 volley? The heat is the same so you're wrong there and They're Half the WEIGHT.
Clan Lrms can be used at Point Blank in pure Lrms Builds. Even if it's exponential decay damage. At least they can fight mechs off.

Clan can make their own Mech variants with Omni pod swaps so you're wrong there
Oh and the Clan Case is WAY better than IS case

Damage Speed and Distance are clear advantage to a little bit longer duration time and more heat.

Your Strongest Argument is the Lrms and Lasers.
You're dead wrong about SRMs and customization though.
Customization ends up being about the same.
Innersphere mechs can only insert what hard points they have on the Chasis.

Clan Mechs?
I don't like the hard points NEW OMNI POD
There Fixed. Lego mechs too stronk

Also the argument everyone is ignoring.
Clans have bigger weapon variety.

not really, because a lot of the variety, like the ACs, suck.

[RetroActive]

Hillslam, on 29 November 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

Make no mistake, the 5SS is about to be ruined, rest assured.

Which is BS, since its goodness is only on the hairy edge.

Source? If true I will be very sad...

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Timuroslav, on 02 December 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Clan Mechs?
I don't like the hard points NEW OMNI POD
There Fixed.

Also the argument everyone is ignoring.
Clans have bigger weapon variety.

Ehh...not being able to change the engine (or other upgrade options) is pretty big. I'd say IS mechs have an edge on customization just from that.


As for weapon balance, IS isn't superior in any area, save for ballistics. Missles tend to be a wash (shorter cool down vs lighter weight launchers, etc etc)
, and energy weapons favor the clans (range is king!).

[Timuroslav]

Clan get LB-20s and LB-5s and LB-2 . in the Current Timeline that's what I'm referring to in terms of Variety. Yea, it's my weakest argument, but I'm sticking to my guns here. Being able to swap hard points so you can fit different weapons is a pretty big deal. It should remain that way. Yea, not being able to swap engines is kind of a down side, but the disadvantages kind of even out for what you're capable of what your'e doing.

If you don't like the hard points in your Inner Sphere mech, you kinda of have to gut the whole thing and start moving stuff around. You're limited by the hard points where as clan mechs you are not.

But, Clan mechs are limited by their Critical slots, and engine. so again it kind of evens out. Keep in mind PGI will imput more Omni pods in the game for Clan mechs. So that big Big lack of customization? It's kinda gonna go out the window.

Edited by Timuroslav, 02 December 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 December 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ehh...not being able to change the engine (or other upgrade options) is pretty big. I'd say IS mechs have an edge on customization just from that.


As for weapon balance, IS isn't superior in any area, save for ballistics. Missles tend to be a wash (shorter cool down vs lighter weight launchers, etc etc)
, and energy weapons favor the clans (range is king!).

beam duration is still not to be ignored. in the open, no t huge deal, but in many situations, it is

[Mcgral18]

RetroActive, on 02 December 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Source? If true I will be very sad...

The Twitter.

It was worded as slight; take it as you will.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

beam duration is still not to be ignored. in the open, no t huge deal, but in many situations, it is

Heat is the bigger problem, in my opinion. 1.4s have diminishing returns, and you can only fit so many.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 02 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The Twitter.

It was worded as slight; take it as you will.



Heat is the bigger problem, in my opinion. 1.4s have diminishing returns, and you can only fit so many.

i feel it goes hand in hand, quite a bit, TBH. Often, most of that extra damage is wasted, but you still get full heat. And you can't twitch away. On fast harassers and brawlers I feel that beam duration is often far more important than range. So on my YLW for instance I wouldn't trade for the clan equivalents if I could. Or my HBK-4G (ok, not really fast, but the twist is important)

Mcgral18, on 02 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The Twitter.

It was worded as slight; take it as you will.



Heat is the bigger problem, in my opinion. 1.4s have diminishing returns, and you can only fit so many.

it could use a slight nerf, and still be fine. FS9-A and K, not really concerned about the quirks, they need to fix the bloody hitreg.

[Sjorpha]

Almond Brown, on 02 December 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

2 exact Mechs, one gets a New Player Pilot, the other a Veteran Pilot. Tell me that the Pilots will not decide who wins. Your argument to the contrary makes little to no sense...

That is not what I said, nor is it relevant.

The fallacy is in believing that examples such as yours above have any bearing on game balance, they don't.

Game balancing is all about the opposite example, equal pilots (top tier), in different mechs.

Edited by Sjorpha, 02 December 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[SaltBeef]

What dissapoints me the most about the Clans is the heat. A lot of builds are crap because of heat spikes. The heat could be toned down a bit to make them more enjoyable to play if you got 4Er meds you need like 20 dbl heatsinks which is crud. Bishop has already stated how Clan AC's are just junk. I must wholeheartedly agree! The Autocannon option just does not exist for the clans. AC's are not remotely effctive to most players which is why you NEVER see them used outside of the Dire Whale. Devs either need to add some PP damage or increase thier rate of fire and round travel speed to make them usable.

Edited by SaltBeef, 02 December 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Timuroslav]

If there is a nerf I think Inner sphere mechs need. It is that Jumpjets should be its own hard-point.

[Bishop Steiner]

SaltBeef, on 02 December 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

What dissapoints me the most about the Clans is the heat. A lot of builds are crap because of heat spikes. The heat could be toned down a bit to make them more enjoyable to play if you got 4Er meds you need like 20 dbl heatsinks which is crud. Bishop has already stated how Clan AC's are just junk. I must wholeheartedly agree! The Autocannon option just does not exist for the clans. AC's are not remotely effctive to most players which is why you NEVER see them used outside of the Dire Whale. Devs either need to add some PP damage or increase thier rate of fire and round travel speed to make them usable.

I think shortening their burst would be huge. I like them having limited PP-FLD as part of the balance tradeoff for lightweight more variety, tbh. also it's good ALL their weapons are not equal or better, but would like a few more appealing options, ballistically. Tighten up the spread some maybe on LBX 20s, too.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

i feel it goes hand in hand, quite a bit, TBH. Often, most of that extra damage is wasted, but you still get full heat. And you can't twitch away. On fast harassers and brawlers I feel that beam duration is often far more important than range. So on my YLW for instance I wouldn't trade for the clan equivalents if I could. Or my HBK-4G (ok, not really fast, but the twist is important)

Yeah, but you dont build hunchies and wangs for long range combat. If the hunchback had quirks for medium pulses, and they applied to cmpls, and you could mount cmpls...would you? I know I would on my Jenner. Same with anything that had quirks for LPLs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Timuroslav, on 02 December 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

If there is a nerf I think Inner sphere mechs need. It is that Jumpjets should be its own hard-point.

I have always felt that to be fair, if it's what I think, meaning that JJs, if used, have a fixed location? I'd be fine with that. I always thought NARC, TAG etc should be "support hardpoints", same with AMS, flamers, mgs.

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 December 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Yeah, but you dont build hunchies and wangs for long range combat. If the hunchback had quirks for medium pulses, and they applied to cmpls, and you could mount cmpls...would you? I know I would on my Jenner. Same with anything that had quirks for LPLs.

I wouldn't. That ubershort beam duration means more to me, TBH, so I can snatch my Hunch out of the line of fire.

There are other mechs I would though, I am sure. Not all attributes suit all mechs and situations is the point. I certainly would not swap out my IS MPL on my Wang unless the clan quirk was to reduce beam duration to comparable. The range and damage is not worth risking my right arm for.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

I have always felt that to be fair, if it's what I think, meaning that JJs, if used, have a fixed location? I'd be fine with that. I always thought NARC, TAG etc should be "support hardpoints", same with AMS, flamers, mgs.

I like the idea, but if you mix ams into support hardpoints, you end up with mechs sporting crazy amounts of ams. Which...could be interesting.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 December 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

I like the idea, but if you mix ams into support hardpoints, you end up with mechs sporting crazy amounts of ams. Which...could be interesting.

I like interesting, as long as it doesn't break balance.

But on many 3050 mechs, the field mod kit was to drop a MG for anAMS, so why not? MGs and flamers are not "anti mech" weapons, primarily, and they don't seem interested in actually making them so, so why not call them what they are. And making you drop a gun for a laser designator? Stupid.

I'd run a 6-7 AMS Arrow for giggles.

I think all mechs should get 1 "support" hardpoint (instead of how most get AMS) to use as wanted, and any existing support weapons get the same treatment. Though the Ember would get boned, hard, lol.....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 December 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Brody319]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I like interesting, as long as it doesn't break balance.

But on many 3050 mechs, the field mod kit was to drop a MG for anAMS, so why not? MGs and flamers are not "anti mech" weapons, primarily, and they don't seem interested in actually making them so, so why not call them what they are. And making you drop a gun for a laser designator? Stupid.

I'd run a 6-7 AMS Arrow for giggles.

Someone should make a video with an angelic quire singing while 6-7 AMS shoot down waves of LRMs.

[MountainCopper]

In a match of IS vs Clan Mechs, the IS side would still be weaker. By quite a bit, imho.
Even with the benefits, you would HAVE to take an XL-engine to match Clan Mechs which are 5 tons lighter than your Mech.

If you take a STD engine in preparation for CW, survivability, because it's lore-conform, the side-torso hit boxes simply don't allow the use on an XL, or just because you liked the loadout, you are just cannon fodder to a degree that isn't funny.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 03 December 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[Brody319]

GoldenFleece, on 02 December 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

In a match of IS vs Clan Mech, the IS side would still weaker. Even with the benefits, you would HAVE to take an XL-engine to match Clan Mechs being 5 tons lighter.
If you take a STD engine in preparation for CW, survivability, because it's lore-conform, or just because you liked the loadout, you are just cannon fodder to a degree which isn't funny.

Because no mech anywhere is better off with a STD engine over an XL engine. Yup, no mech can properly mount a formidable loadout that matches clan levels of damage without bringing an XL engine.