444 replies to this topic

[TwentyOne]

PGI should remove the timber and scrow from the game, and then buff the *bad* clan chassis appropriately.

[Rossario x Vampire]

Sjorpha, on 29 November 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

And I predict it will also feature some posts by persons who thinks throwing out negative generalizations about vaguely defined groups of people and with fashionably casual cynicism declare the usefulness of it all makes them sound cool or streetsmart or... something.

Unfortunately bobF is right about topic and community. They suck in game than go on forum to whine.

[bobF]

The cynicism wasn't at all casual, lil buddeh, it was stated plainly.

I just try to keep things in perspective, so the next time you entitled man-children make your salty-teared demands (always without thinking, but with plenty of words), you'll perhaps consider the actual consequences.

I doubt it though. Maybe you people will learn when you start playing your second online pvp game.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Stormcrow, Timber Wolf, and Dire Wolf are the best mechs in the game. I do think some of the IS mechs can now hold up to the other Clan mechs but in general I'd say Clans are still ahead.

As for every new Clan mech being "DoA" I think thats mostly just the past few mechs (and indeed, most of wave II) are of questionable usefulness.

Edited by Rouken, 29 November 2014 - 04:40 PM.

[Hillslam]

As of the last full stop data gather after the quirks were added Russ reported clans were winning 64% of the time. That means IS were winning 36%. Or roughly a double win rate.

So no, its not even. And no it aint the pilots.

I think some of the clan **** mechs need buffed. I think the Dires and Timbers need nerfed. I think the SC is ridiculously bugged with its hitboxes and dumps damage it invisible black holes of "your shot goes nowhere".

Once they bring up the bad chassises then re-run the numbers and see. If by that point its still bd (and I think buffing other chassises will make the 64% to 36% gap widen) then the first thing I'd hit is the clan XL penalty for losing a side.

Right now losing a clan side torso "penalty" is really zero penalty. Its completely invisible and ineffective and does not hamper the mech in any way in game. Losing some of your cooling when you've lost half or more than half of your weapons and thus dont need that cooling anyway is a bad joke.

[Sjorpha]

bobF, on 29 November 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

The cynicism wasn't at all casual, lil buddeh, it was stated plainly.

I just try to keep things in perspective, so the next time you entitled man-children make your salty-teared demands (always without thinking, but with plenty of words), you'll perhaps consider the actual consequences.

I doubt it though. Maybe you people will learn when you start playing your second online pvp game.

Honest question, why are you being this rude and insulting towards/about other people? Is it for personal enjoyment (sadism), just a habit, or is there some kind of actual goal or purpose to it?

I'm asking because this kind of random rudeness and general negativity looks very childish to me, that was the point of my first post. And I'm not saying it to insult you, it's just very foreign to me from where I live that adults behave that way. Of course I don't know your age and I do encounter some teenager with that kind of attitude, but I assume you are adult because most people playing this game are.

So there should be a reason to do it, otherwise it is just randomly being mean. And that would seem a bit irrational and unproductive IMO.

Edited by Sjorpha, 29 November 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[627]

hey what are these OP doomcrow builds by the way?

I die in that thing as fast as in my IS mechs, but it's not the mech mostly, it is bad positioning or a bad match. OP here, OP there... I haven't found a "I win" build for the crow or the madcat at all.

Sure, those mechs are great and definitely tier 1 in that arbitrary classification but there's a difference between broken OP and excellent mech.

And to be true, there are more "tier 1" mechs on IS side now than on clan side.


oh and one comment on the OP dragon: lol

yes dual AC5s are fun on that thing but please, build one and play some rounds and try not to die in 4 minutes with ammo left...

[Walluh]

Hold on did I see someone try to say a Summoner is better than a Thunderbolt?

Have you seen a 5SS?

[Rossario x Vampire]

627, on 29 November 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

oh and one comment on the OP dragon: lol

Thanx. Those dragons are my fav pew-pew when driving a Doomcrow.

Walluh, on 29 November 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Hold on did I see someone try to say a Summoner is better than a Thunderbolt?

Have you seen a 5SS?

Nope, I ain't. I own one mastered Discobolt-5SS with 7xMPL's with range and cooldown modules Tier 5.
But Timberwub-Phime is more stronk.

[Ovion]

I think, overall it's reasonably well balanced at the moment.

The mechs I sucked in pre-clans, I mostly still suck in now - they perform roughly the same.
The mechs I did well in pre-clans, I mostly do well in now - they perform roughly the same.
(Based on damage + income)

On the flipside, with my clan mechs, there's some I do poorly in. These perform pretty similar damage + income wise to the IS mechs I do poorly in.
The Clan mechs I do well in, I earn much the same as the IS mechs I do well in.

The only ones I've really 'done better' in are my Kit Fox, my Mad Dog (which is basically a slightly improved Cata A1 for me), and my Dire Wolf (but my performance in Assaults overall is pretty poor).
And that's not really that much better anyway.... still only on par with my best IS performances, or marginally (see - no mroe than 10%) better than.

And vs each other, my W/L is still satisfactory.

So yeah, in my opinion, for the most part, it's balanced alright overall.

[Sjorpha]

Rossario x Vampire, on 29 November 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

They deserve it. Being so "nancy" on forum due their terribad suck in MWO why should he not being rude?
With such a treads you(not personaly you) wasting forum. So, theire goes disrespect.

I think avoiding needless suffering is a quite good reason actually, and I can't reconcile being bad or obsessed with a game, though it might be unhealthy, with "deserving" any kind of punishment.

I also don't believe in the concept of personal guilt in the first place, having to do with my position on free will and some other things, so the idea of deserving punishment in the ethical sense or because you are a certain kind of person is a completely nonsensical concept IMO (though punishments may be a good idea for the positive effects it sometimes has) But I digress.

Call me a hippie, but if there is no measurable positive and several negative effects to a given behaviour, why behave that way?

Edited by Sjorpha, 29 November 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 29 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clan don't really get a substantial range advantage anymore. CERLL's aren't very good, clan autocannons are pretty much just bad, cERPPC's are a joke - very high heat, long range negated by hellaciously slow projectile speed.

Meanwhile, many IS mechs got substantial range buffs, particularly to their rather efficient Large Lasers.

So, Clans have an excellentech (Timberwolf), a couple good mechs (stormcrow, direwolf) and what will hopefully become a good mech (hellbringer after upcoming CT fix). Also, the Hellbringer competes directly with the Timberwolf - every Hellbringer is one less Timbie.

To the OP, then? Yeah, if you looked at Clans less the Timberwolf alone, I'd say theres a really good argument to be made that they're weak. Take out the Stormcrow and Direwolf, and they'd be in a very, very bad place.

However, this was true from the start, and was why I was deeply nervous about clan weapon nerfs. People cried about OP clans, but it was always a couple clan mechs. With such limited customization, inferior clan mechs are simply inferior.

I'm curious how it'll play out in CW, when players have drop weight limits. This, because the IS has a good selection of very, very strong post-quirkening mediums and light heavies, while the strong clan mechs are also max-tonnage chassis (55, 75, 100t). With a 240t limit and 4 mechs required, clans won't be bringing a lot of Timberwolves and Direwolves to the table.

It's why I felt that everything needed to be done as quirks, but I do disagree with Russ's approach,, while not using Paul's nerfhammer, some chassis do need some mild nerfs, to flatten the curve.

[Hillslam]

If you removed the top tier IS mechs, IS would be in a VERY BAD PLACE.

See how stupid that sounds? Stop saying it about the Timber, Dire and SC.

Both sides have mostly crap mechs and a few good ones. Clanners keep acting like the full gamut of IS mechs are viable.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 November 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

It's why I felt that everything needed to be done as quirks, but I do disagree with Russ's approach,, while not using Paul's nerfhammer, some chassis do need some mild nerfs, to flatten the curve.

Nothing on the IS side needs nerfed. More chassis's need brought up. Or rather, their pallette of chosen quirks changed. Some quirk choices were.... odd. And not at all useful (PPCs on brawlers? really?)

But I agreed with everything being done as quirks, and should be applied to Clans soon. Quirks can be negative (and were for YEARS on alot of IS mechs).

Edited by Hillslam, 29 November 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[MrZakalwe]

Sjorpha, on 29 November 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Honest question, why are you being this rude and insulting towards/about other people? Is it for personal enjoyment (sadism), just a habit, or is there some kind of actual goal or purpose to it?

I'm asking because this kind of random rudeness and general negativity looks very childish to me, that was the point of my first post. And I'm not saying it to insult you, it's just very foreign to me from where I live that adults behave that way. Of course I don't know your age and I do encounter some teenager with that kind of attitude, but I assume you are adult because most people playing this game are.

So there should be a reason to do it, otherwise it is just randomly being mean. And that would seem a bit irrational and unproductive IMO.

He's just a classic internet tough guy- drunk on the power of anonymity, Should be used to those by now.

[Cygone]

CW - Clan 240 Drop Mech Composition

3xSCW + 1xTBR
1xADR + 1xSCW + 2xTBR
2xSCW + 2xHBR
2xWHK + 2xADR
4xMDD

That is basically it, if you run any other Clan Mechs you are intentionally gimping yourself.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hillslam, on 29 November 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

If you removed the top tier IS mechs, IS would be in a VERY BAD PLACE.

See how stupid that sounds? Stop saying it about the Timber, Dire and SC.

Both sides have mostly crap mechs and a few good ones. Clanners keep acting like the full gamut of IS mechs are viable.

Nothing on the IS side needs nerfed. More chassis's need brought up. Or rather, their pallette of chosen quirks changed. Some quirk choices were.... odd. And not at all useful (PPCs on brawlers? really?)

But I agreed with everything being done as quirks, and should be applied to Clans soon. Quirks can be negative (and were for YEARS on alot of IS mechs).

Think about what I am saying. Did I say IS needed a nerf? NO.

and the point, is that with the Clans, you large i have really good, or pretty dang bad. With IS you have a few bands, but thanks to quirks you have a lot of middle of the pack to good.
The only person saying take the TWolf out fo the equation and see what happens is someone who doesn't comprehend the point, or has a vested interest in protecting his EZMode.

The TW is what is called a statistical OUTLIER. SO nerfing ALL the clans based off of the success of ONE OUTLIER is a rather stupid way to approach things.

Sjorpha, on 29 November 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Honest question, why are you being this rude and insulting towards/about other people? Is it for personal enjoyment (sadism), just a habit, or is there some kind of actual goal or purpose to it?

I'm asking because this kind of random rudeness and general negativity looks very childish to me, that was the point of my first post. And I'm not saying it to insult you, it's just very foreign to me from where I live that adults behave that way. Of course I don't know your age and I do encounter some teenager with that kind of attitude, but I assume you are adult because most people playing this game are.

So there should be a reason to do it, otherwise it is just randomly being mean. And that would seem a bit irrational and unproductive IMO.

forum troll, put the guy on ignore and move on. Eventually when no one is there to listen to their rants, they'll move on.

[Hillslam]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 November 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Think about what I am saying. Did I say IS needed a nerf? NO.

Sorry Bishop, wasn't referring to you. Its been the mantra of many other clan players.

I personally think the SC is more of a problem than the TBR and Dire.
I'd put the Dire and TBR on equal "problem" footing atm, with hte TBR a slight lead. Ancedotal, of course, like all our opinions.

I think the clan weapons need left alone. It punishes the bad chassis' along with the good. It should be done by quirks on a per variant basis, as I said (and I think you did too). Pinpoint surgical corrections.

Edited by Hillslam, 29 November 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[The Boz]

Cygone, on 29 November 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

CW - Clan 240 Drop Mech Composition

3xSCW + 1xTBR
1xADR + 1xSCW + 2xTBR
2xSCW + 2xHBR
2xWHK + 2xADR
4xMDD

That is basically it, if you run any other Clan Mechs you are intentionally gimping yourself.

If "gimping yourself" stands for "playing at the level of IS", then sure. Because, apart from the Adder, that's what it works out to.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I generally feel most Clan mechs are slightly inferior right now.

The notable exception is the Timber Wolf which is currently the best heavy in the game. Stormcrow is also a excellent medium but I have seen too many Shadow Hawks and Griffins who mount jump jets (something the crow can't do) kicking arse to say it is any better than them. Direwolf I am not so sure about. it is so ungainly that I have a hard time giving it top honors. It is good when supported by a team but I have taken them out solo many times now, in a Mist Lynx of all things, when other mechs, even Stalkers are more more capable of dealing with lights. I guess I would say, that the Direwolf is situationally good but others are more well rounded. Generally prefer the Warhawk which is about as good as a Stalker give or take. Kit Fox is also good but only in its unique role of team ECM support, in all other ways it gets outclassed by IS lights.

As far as the rest, none are any better then IS mechs and alot are worse. Mist Lynx is decent but totally outclassed by the Firestarter. Ice Ferret is good for what it is, a light mech hunter but its lack of JJs and general lack of firepower prevent it from actually being good. Nova used to be good back when Clan weapons were cooler, now it is mediocre at best and bad at worst. Summoner is just bad. Just bought into them and wish I hadn't. Adder is obviously weak due to lack of energy hard points though I don't own one yet.

Jury is out on the Hellbringer. It's hit boxes are so borked up right now it is a wonder they are usable at all. However the fact that they are usable might mean they end up being good once the hit boxes are fixed.

Don't own a Mad Dog so can't really comment too much about them. They seem average to above average though and last but not least, the Gargoyle which is honestly only going to be as good as its hit boxes. If it ends up having great hit boxes with a fast and large radius torso twist that allows it to be superior at defensive twisting, it might end up being damn good. Without this though, it won't have enough going for it to outclass a Timber, not when it is roughly the same speed and armor with significantly less weapons.

[Hillslam]

Oh yeah, like a whole smorgasboard of viable IS deck combos are open........ right.

3 chassises our of what, 12 clan chassis is a better % of viable platforms than there are top IS performers of their greater number of chassises, 30.

The IS has way more lemons.

By those rates, the IS should have 8 top performing chassises, that can compete with the Dire, SC & TBR. Right now we have.... hold on a second.... oh right, no IS chassises perform like those.

Edited by Hillslam, 29 November 2014 - 05:17 PM.