148 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

So, maybe it's been bandied about...and usually, I am mr TT guy.

That said, I can admit, there is an imbalance in IS XLs vs Clan ones.

So, a possible idea:

Instead of IS XL side torso loss equalling instant death, have it do similar to the clan ones, but with steeper penalties. Have the mech lose 25-40% speed (rough number, could be tweaked) and generate a base 15-25% heat on the heat bar.

The mech is still alive, but badly damaged--- also it makes CASE useful, as you will still lose the torso and take penalties, but by keeping damage from spreading, it has a place again on IS mechs.

Anyhow, just a not fully formed idea I have been tossing about my head this morning, thought I would get some input.

*engaging flame shield in.....3......2.......1......ENGAGED!*

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 December 2014 - 11:51 AM.

[Mark Brandhauber]

I like it as an Idea, would love to see it in game..... but I sense much entitlement in the posts on the horizon.

[ApolloKaras]

How will your opinion differ if they decide to do Light Engines?

[Brody319]

*snarky internet laugh*
You dare Imply that the IS are anything but filthy peasants with caveman tools?

[Bishop Steiner]

Saxie, on 02 December 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

How will your opinion differ if they decide to do Light Engines?

Make the Lights suffer substantially less, akin to what the Clans get now, for penalties? problem solved. (well, maybe)

Remember, with what I am recommending, the mech IS legitimately crippled, more so than a Clanner in same boat. Just not totally ruined.

And while STD Engine mechs can use CASE, too many stock units come with it and an XL.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 December 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Mark Brandhauber]

light engines in another 12 years?....... seriously......

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 02 December 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

*snarky internet laugh*
You dare Imply that the IS are anything but filthy peasants with caveman tools?

Of course not! But neanderthal with a club in your face is exactly what I claim to be!

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

So, maybe it's been bandied about...and usually, I am mr TT guy.

That said, I can admit, there is an imbalance in IS XLs vs Clan ones.

So, a possible idea:

Instead of IS XL side torso loss equalling instant death, have it do similar to the clan ones, but with steeper penalties. Have the mech lose 25-40% speed (rough number, could be tweaked) and generate a base 15-25% heat on the heat bar.

The mech is still alive, but badly damaged--- also it makes CASE useful, as you will still lose the torso and take penalties, but by keeping damage from spreading, it has a place again on IS mechs.

Anyhow, just a not fully formed idea I have been tossing about my head this morning, thought I would get some input.

*engaging flame shield in.....3......2.......1......ENGAGED!*

Well to be honest I was thinking the same thing but I was strongly hesitating bringing up this discussion because of the likelyhood PGI would rather nerf the Clan XL rather than buffing the IS XL but since the subject has been broached I guess I will chime in.

Yeah I am with you on this Bishop. I honestly find myself mostly shying away from playing IS mechs due to the XL engine vulnerabilities and it isn't that I really feel they make IS mechs weaker rather I hate having to be so hyper-aware of my ST damage every match I play.

With Clan mechs I can just play and if I lose my ST I lose my ST. I mean it sucks and honestly cuts my ability to fight significantly but I don't actively fret and worry about the status of my STs. Most my IS mechs however, the minute my armor turns orange, I get so damn paranoid about losing a ST that it actively stresses me out.

So yeah, even as a dedicated Clanner who would find IS mechs much tougher opponents in CW, I am 120% behind your idea. No instant death, but much steeper penalties like significant reductions and speed and cooling sounds to be a perfect compromise and one that won't obsolete IS standard engines in the process.

Hell if they buffed IS mechs that way, maybe they could even loosen up on the massive heat Clan weapons generate and I would be 1 million percent down with that idea.

[Ryche]

I have a problem with that idea.

Basically we keep bringing things up for the IS versus the clans but lets not lie to one another here. Clans are more expensive both in terms of cbills and MC than IS chassis by a huge margin much more so than just an XL and endo and double heat sinks.

If with this change we saw a change to prices for Clan mechs to be comparable to IS mechs price wise then it wouldnt be such an issue.

[Barantor]

I would be fine with that, but the tradeoff would be that the IS would no longer get to put on or off endo steel structure. If the mech comes with it stock, it keeps it, but can't remove it and if it doesn't come with it, then you don't get it.

It nerfs the IS customization options, but to be honest those are way out of whack anyway.

While we are at it, fix the flamer.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ryche, on 02 December 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I have a problem with that idea.

Basically we keep bringing things up for the IS versus the clans but lets not lie to one another here. Clans are more expensive both in terms of cbills and MC than IS chassis by a huge margin much more so than just an XL and endo and double heat sinks.

If with this change we saw a change to prices for Clan mechs to be comparable to IS mechs price wise then it wouldnt be such an issue.

that cost has zero effect on the battlefield. FPS balance is in game, not in economy.

Barantor, on 02 December 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

I would be fine with that, but the tradeoff would be that the IS would no longer get to put on or off endo steel structure. If the mech comes with it stock, it keeps it, but can't remove it and if it doesn't come with it, then you don't get it.

It nerfs the IS customization options, but to be honest those are way out of whack anyway.

While we are at it, fix the flamer.

be fair, and tbh, logical trade. You can't realistically replace the mech's skeleton anyway, so I always kinda hated that.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I believe allowing an IS mech to survive torso destruction would make IS standard engines as worthless as single heatsinks. I think I would rather see some real penalties to Clan mechs that lose a torso.like half movement and massive extra heat.

[Ryche]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

that cost has zero effect on the battlefield. FPS balance is in game, not in economy.


be fair, and tbh, logical trade. You can't realistically replace the mech's skeleton anyway, so I always kinda hated that.

Of course it matters in the battle field. when it costs 45 million cbills just to unlock the elite skills for a timberwolf versus say 18 million cbills for a thunderbolt it does matter. you will see fewer clan mechs due to insane costs that are elited and mastered due to this which means IS chassis will be at an advantage in terms of skills unlocked.

[Barantor]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 02 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

I believe allowing an IS mech to survive torso destruction would make IS standard engines as worthless as single heatsinks. I think I would rather see some real penalties to Clan mechs that lose a torso.like half movement and massive extra heat.

For a light or medium pilot (centurion and HBK aside) the standard engines are mostly worthless anyway.

[Moonlander]

I would likely pilot more IS mechs if IS XLs didn't make me stress out so much while playing. I feel like I have to constantly hide because if someone alpha's a ST, I'm done for. Sure, it's not all IS mechs but the ones I want are better when using XLs. Payload and all. I would be down with this change.

[superteds]

it would make std engines in the majority of cases (exluding torso ac20's etc) redundant. there's also lots of fits that are only not too powerful by virtue of having the side torso drawback... i'm not really sure this is needed. that's quite a heavy change for a problem that can mostly be addressed with quirks.

[Deathlike]

I'd have to honestly think about it.

The most likely result would actually generate more people to use IS XL engines, despite the penalties... since you can fit more stuff due to the tonnage savings.

You'd also buff mechs that are already XL friendly and not necessarily Lights, because a slow Light is a dead Light. I'm talking about Victors, Shadowhawks... and a whole host of other XL-friendly mechs.

Again, I'd have to think about it.

[ApolloKaras]

Mark Brandhauber, on 02 December 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

light engines in another 12 years?....... seriously......

Im just throwing it out there, PGI at one point did say that they may deviate from the time line.

[Barantor]

Deathlike, on 02 December 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I'd have to honestly think about it.

The most likely result would actually generate more people to use IS XL engines, despite the penalties... since you can fit more stuff due to the tonnage savings.

You'd also buff mechs that are already XL friendly and not necessarily Lights, because a slow Light is a dead Light. I'm talking about Victors, Shadowhawks... and a whole host of other XL-friendly mechs.

Again, I'd have to think about it.

Aside from the Victor, I know a lot of folks leg those other mechs so it is kinda moot?

It would definitely benefit the assaults and some of the heavies that have the hardpoints but can't often use them due to the weight of a standard engine.

I think there needs to be a tradeoff though, like endo steel being bound to specific chassis.

[Andi Nagasia]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

So, maybe it's been bandied about...and usually, I am mr TT guy.

That said, I can admit, there is an imbalance in IS XLs vs Clan ones.

So, a possible idea:

Instead of IS XL side torso loss equalling instant death, have it do similar to the clan ones, but with steeper penalties. Have the mech lose 25-40% speed (rough number, could be tweaked) and generate a base 15-25% heat on the heat bar.

The mech is still alive, but badly damaged--- also it makes CASE useful, as you will still lose the torso and take penalties, but by keeping damage from spreading, it has a place again on IS mechs.

Anyhow, just a not fully formed idea I have been tossing about my head this morning, thought I would get some input.

but Bishop, you know whats coming in 3054 with the IS-Light-Engines,....
i fear that when it does come out Clan will be too Nerfed to Fight Back,