22 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

So I was thinking about clan quirks the other day and wanted to see what others thought


Here is my 2 cents:


1) Quirks are based upon the variant used (CT)
2) Quirks should be based solely upon the default loadout for that variant. (I think PGI has seen the light on this from Russ's comments. I hope so anyway)
3) The TW and SCrow will probalby get some negative quirks because they Tier 0 at this point in game balance. The DW is Tw so it will get minimal quirks if any


With those thoughts, here is a start. What do you guys think?:

Adder:

Prime (T5)

 
+10 Armor in RA and LA
+25% speed on ERPPC
-25% heat from ERPPC
+10% range on ERPPC
+100% crit rate on Flamers
 
A (T5)
+10 Armor in RA and LA
+25% CD on LRM20
-25% heat on LRM20
+10% range on LRM20
+100% crit rate on Flamers
 
B(T5)
+10 Armor in RA and LA
+15% CD on UAC5
-25% heat on ERLL
+10% range on missiles
+100% crit rate on Flamers

KitFox

[Lily from animove]

I think clanners will get their whole qurisk different and relatd to pods, so probably PPC buffs only go for arms (unfortunatel,y because I prefer them in my Torsi), since this would be a more logical step.

I also don't think the adder has some serious armor issues. Heat and dissipaion are its main issues due to the fact of havign the very hot clanweapons but no being able to equip a proper amount of DHS in reverse.
This is the bggets issue of all clan lights, they can not dissipate the heat of their weapons and have to stuck with the very high heated (and heat inefficient) clan energy weapons.

Edited by Lily from animove, 03 December 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Lily from animove, on 03 December 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think clanners will get their whole qurisk different and relatd to pods, so probably PPC buffs only go for arms (unfortunatel,y because I prefer them in my Torsi), since this would be a more logical step.

I also don't think the adder has some serious armor issues. Heat and dissipaion are its main issues due to the fact of havign the very hot clanweapons but no being able to equip a proper amount of DHS in reverse.
This is the bggets issue of all clan lights, they can not dissipate the heat of their weapons and have to stuck with the very high heated (and heat inefficient) clan energy weapons.

You can't do pods, then you can mix and match the best ones, it will be based around having a complete Prime variant etc. Otherwise you end up with stacking pod bonuses.

[Andi Nagasia]

I disagree I think we need both,
personally i feel we need to see Clan Quirks,
after every mech is Quirked out balancing them will be much easier,
as you can easily make a 10% Quirk, a 8% or 12% depending on Balance,

i do feel that Clans need to also get Omni-Pod Quirks,
but since people keep saying that will/may lead to Abuse,
here's an Example,
NVA-P= 30% Heat Displacement(Heat Displacement Quirks)
-HD- 2% Heat Displacement Quirk
-CT- 20% Heat Displacement Quirk
-LT- 2% Heat Displacement Quirk
-RT- 2% Heat Displacement Quirk
-LA- weapon Quirks
-RA- weapon Quirks
-LL- 2% Heat Displacement Quirk
-RL- 2% Heat Displacement Quirk
NVA-B= 10% Turn-Angle (Speed, Angle, Thresh-hold Quirks)
-HD- 10% Heat Thresh-hold Quirk
-CT- 10% Torso Turn-Angle Quirk
-LT- weapon Quirks
-RT- weapon Quirks
-LA- weapon Quirks
-RA- weapon Quirks
-LL- 5% Acceleration/Deceleration Quirk
-RL- 5% Acceleration/Deceleration Quirk
NVA-S= 10% Structure(Structure(Hp) Quirks)
-HD- 10% HD Structure(Hp) Quirk
-CT- 10% CT Structure(Hp) Quirk
-LT- weapon Quirks
-RT- weapon Quirks
-LA- weapon Quirks
-RA- weapon Quirks
-LL- 10% Leg Structure(Hp) Quirk
-RL- 10% Leg Structure(Hp) Quirk
i believe this system would help with Clan Balance,
as well as give Hard-point-less Omni-pods Purpose,

[Shae Starfyre]

I think quirks should come in one crit-sized, 1/2 ton packages.

[FupDup]

Koshi
+8 to +12 points of additional arm armor
+10% top speed
Some other stuffs, I dunno

Fenris
+10 to +12 points of additional CT armor on the Prime only, because it lacks the CT laser of other variants (big drawback)
Moar Omnipods for moar hardpoints

Badder
+X armor on the full body, to emphasize its durability over other lights
-X% energy weapon heat, for more pewpew DPS
Some other stuffs

Suckoner
Omnipods that give it at least one energy hardpoint per side torso
Some modest agility nudges

Cute Fox
Slightly more armor on each body part, but not as much as the Badder
Non-S side torsos should give roughly +7.5% top speed each, because they have no hardpoints whatsoever
-X% energy weapon heat (less than the Badder's) to make up for having Poordubs™ due to a sub-250 engine
An extra module slot that can be either a weapon mod or mech mod

No-Va
Some agility buffs to the side torsos that don't come with 4 ballistics
-X% energy heat, particularly for the ERMLs
Maybe redistribute the hitboxes a bit

Mad Dawg
Will have to see what happens with the December 16th hitbox adjustment to decide for sure
The non-A side torsos could probably have a bigger missile cooldown bonus, because they don't have 3 hardpoints
Remove the negative quirk from the 3-energy arm, apply a small positive quirk to the non-3-energy right arms

Peacedove
If possible, quirks that improved the effectiveness of Targeting Computers would be kewl
Otherwise, focus on projectile speeds, beam durations, and other stuff to emulate the effect of better Targeting Computers
Don't need to go overboard here because the mech is already quite decent (contrary to common belief)

Gargles
Needs to be released first!

[Duke Nedo]

Why not start with some tier thinking? I'd throw something like...

Tier 0: Stormcrow, Timberwolf
Tier 1: Direwhale, Hellbringer (because ecm only)
Tier 2: Warhawk, Adder, Kitfox, Maddog
Tier 3: Summoner, Nova
Tier 4: Fenris, Mist Lynx
Tier 5: None

I'm trying to use the same scale as the IS mechs then. Nova could be argued to be Tier 4 perhaps, but I also wouldn't cry if Adder and Kitfix was moved up to Tier 1 (not tier 1 scouts, but tier 1 mechs).

[Shae Starfyre]

Hey, Mech Mechanic, how can I get another 10% range on this here Gauss Rifle?

Well, sir, we could install this "thingy-me-bobber" but it'll take up a crit space and add half a ton to the design; need some structural support...

Just do it! I need my Quirks!

Customization in the hands of the players!

I want my Ac20 to fire faster...

Well, sir, we can remove these here extra balistic hard points, reduce the engine down, and install this "magnetic recoil fidget device" for 1 ton and 2 crit slots, and you can be on your way!

Edited by Aphoticus, 03 December 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Joe Mallad]

Um... I love me some Clan Mechs, even tho I'm not a "clan player". BUT... While I'd like to see the Clan mechs get some mech based quirks like unique quirks for speed, twisting armor or structure... I do however think the Clans DO NOT need weapon quirks at all. Lmao, the Clan weapons already out perform most IS weapon even with the new IS weapon perks. The whole idea with IS weapon quirks was to make unused IS mechs a bit more relevant again and a bit more competitive across the board. Not to mention to give them a bit more staying power against the already superior Clan Tech.

If the Clans get weapon quirks than that on e again makes them even more powerful and once again pulls them away from most IS weapons being able to be relevant against the Clans. Look, the Clans should have a tech advantage and as it stands, they do. They don't need much more IMO.

[SaltBeef]

I just want heat reductions for some lasers and internals durability boosting in key locations kit fox adder legs, nova arms, sumoner boost JJ add 1 energy to each torso 1 energy to each arm. Ice ferret and myst lynx arms boosts , warhawk Torso boost. Dire whale gonna needs some lovin if it is quirked away from the Meta. Build and ultra AC ghost heated. All timeline omni pods or sell the other mechs varients. I am not too picky. Boost heat sinks a tiny bit I feel like a roasted Marshmellow in all of my Clan mechs.

[Mister Blastman]

Just give the Summoner the option of mounting endo. Screw lore. Give it endo. The same holds true for the other bottom-tier Clan 'mechs.

However, the blowva needs more than endo (since it maxes out crits), it needs its arms flipped on end so the hand part is at or above head level.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 03 December 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Brody319]

Tier 1 mechs simply don't get quirks. Don't give them negative quirks, they don't need a nerf!.

Nova, Warhawk, Maddog, and Kit Fox would probably be fine if they just got some quirks
Hellbringer, and Direwolf are both fine so no quirks for them
Summoner, Adder, Ferret, and Koshi need quirks and New omnipod options to help make them more viable.


Tier 1: Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Direwolf - No quirks, no new omnipods, are fine as they are
Tier 2:Hellbringer - really close, could use quirks, but won't be bad without them.
Tier 3: Warhawk, Maddog, Kitfox - Need quirks. Mainly energy quirks for all, and some missile ones for maddog and Warhawk
Tier 4:Adder, Ferret - Needs quirks and omnipods. Not bad but outclassed and need some extra help.
Tier 5: Koshi, Summoner - Need plenty of quirks and omnipods.. Outclassed by almost every mech in the same weight class and are unable to do their role due to a lack of proper hardpoints.

Edited by Brody319, 03 December 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Negative quirks?

WTF is wrong with people?

Really all most of these 'mechs need are more pods available even if they are out of the timeline or invented by PGI altogether.

Ghost heat really screws up the Nova since boating small lasers is almost all it can do with its limited pod space--it really needs to go for a lot of reasons and if/when it does the Nova will be a very dangerous 'mech.

[Greenjulius]

Duke Nedo, on 03 December 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Why not start with some tier thinking? I'd throw something like...

Tier 0: Stormcrow, Timberwolf
Tier 1: Direwhale, Hellbringer (because ecm only)
Tier 2: Warhawk, Adder, Kitfox, Maddog
Tier 3: Summoner, Nova
Tier 4: Fenris, Mist Lynx
Tier 5: None

I'm trying to use the same scale as the IS mechs then. Nova could be argued to be Tier 4 perhaps, but I also wouldn't cry if Adder and Kitfix was moved up to Tier 1 (not tier 1 scouts, but tier 1 mechs).

I agree with most of this list, but I think the Badder, having no ECM, Jump Jets, or speed, is at best a Tier 3 mech, or probably more like Tier 4.

The Mist Lynx has issues, but the hitbox resizing may help it a lot. Currently it's Tier 4-5, but might jump to 3 if the arms stay on. It's not as bad as pre-quirk Locusts, but it's not much better. It really needs more options than arm only weapons, or at least arm armor buffs.

I'd almost say the Fenris/Ice Ferret was Tier 3, but the lack of weapons and tonnage makes it sit somewhere closer to 3-4.

The Summoner and Nova seem about right. They aren't terrible mechs, just not good. The Direwhale and Hellbringer are rightly placed too, especially with the HBR's fixed boxes. The Mad Dog is supposed to receive a hitbox resize this month, so it should be firmly in the Tier 2 slot.

The only mech I'm having trouble deciding on is the Kitfox. I love it to death, but the heat increases to clan energy hurt it badly a few months ago. It's too fragile to put up as much fight. The Jump Jets and ECM add to it's rating however, so Tier 2-3 is probably right. It just needs some heat and arm/leg buffs to make it effective again.

I know ".5's" aren't pretty, but hopefully they convey that the models need more buffs than the mechs above them.

My tier list:
Tier 0: Stormcrow, Timberwolf
Tier 1: Dire Wolf, Hellbringer
Tier 2: Warhawk, Maddog
Tier 2.5: Kitfox
Tier 3: Summoner, Nova
Tier 4: Fenris, Adder
Tier 4.5: Mist Lynx
Tier 5: None

Brody is spot on that the Ferret, Lynx, Summoner and Adder can all be fixed with omnipods and quirks.

Edited by Greenjulius, 03 December 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

shad0w4life, on 03 December 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

You can't do pods, then you can mix and match the best ones, it will be based around having a complete Prime variant etc. Otherwise you end up with stacking pod bonuses.

I do this already. For example, one of the Mist Lynx variants have I think a 20% durability to armor quirk so I mount them as standard on all my Mist Lynxs.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Greenjulius, on 03 December 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

I agree with most of this list, but I think the Badder, having no ECM, Jump Jets, or speed, is at best a Tier 3 mech, or probably more like Tier 4.

The Mist Lynx has issues, but the hitbox resizing may help it a lot. Currently it's Tier 4-5, but might jump to 3 if the arms stay on. It's not as bad as pre-quirk Locusts, but it's not much better. It really needs more options than arm only weapons, or at least arm armor buffs.

I'd almost say the Fenris/Ice Ferret was Tier 3, but the lack of weapons and tonnage makes it sit somewhere closer to 3-4.

The Summoner and Nova seem about right. They aren't terrible mechs, just not good. The Direwhale and Hellbringer are rightly placed too, especially with the HBR's fixed boxes. The Mad Dog is supposed to receive a hitbox resize this month, so it should be firmly in the Tier 2 slot.

The only mech I'm having trouble deciding on is the Kitfox. I love it to death, but the heat increases to clan energy hurt it badly a few months ago. It's too fragile to put up as much fight. The Jump Jets and ECM add to it's rating however, so Tier 2-3 is probably right. It just needs some heat and arm/leg buffs to make it effective again.

I know ".5's" aren't pretty, but hopefully they convey that the models need more buffs than the mechs above them.

My tier list:
Tier 0: Stormcrow, Timberwolf
Tier 1: Dire Wolf, Hellbringer
Tier 2: Warhawk, Maddog
Tier 2.5: Kitfox
Tier 3: Summoner, Nova
Tier 4: Fenris, Adder
Tier 4.5: Mist Lynx
Tier 5: None

Brody is spot on that the Ferret, Lynx, Summoner and Adder can all be fixed with omnipods and quirks.

I agree mostly though I don't thing there is a Tier 0 unless your implying the are OP and they are not.

Alot of the Clan mechs are in a good place as is. Direwolf, Timber Wolf and Stormcrow don't need anything, they are Tier 1. Hellbringer is solid Tier 2 right now and since it has ECM as an advantage that is it quirk. Warhawk is a solid Tier 2 in my mind as well so just a wee little bit of help is needed. Kit Fox is really probably a 2.5 hehe, not quite good enough to be a 2 but not bad enough to be a 3. Few minor quirks, mostly heat related.

Nova, Summoner, Adder, Fenris and Mist Lynx need some help though, both in the form of quirks and additional omnipods added.

Nova needs a major heat related quirk in regards to ER MLs. Probably 20% in heat reduction. Also adding a couple of pods that allow it to mount a couple missile launchers in the torso would go alone way.

Summoner is in dire need of hardpoint inflation, at least in regards to energy weapons. One single omnipod that allows for 2 E in one of the Torsos would fix this mech right up. As far a Quirks, honestly a JJ one. Basically give it a medium mech Jump Profile instead of a heavy.

Fenris needs a bit of hard point inflation, maybe adding an arm with 2-3 E to be paired with the other 2 E arm. Also heat reduction quirks.

Mist Lynx needs a omni pod for one of its torsos that has a E or two so it can still fight after losing it arms. Also it runs way too hot so probably a 15% heat reduction.

Adder just needs hard point inflating. 2 Pods, both adding 2 E to each arm would work.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 03 December 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[SaltBeef]

My tier list

0 Timberwolf
1 Stormcrow, Hellbringer
2 Dire whale, Warhawk, Mad Dog, Kit Fox.
3 Summoner, Nova.
4 Ice ferret, Adder
5 Myst lynx

For me the Dire was Never Ever Tier 0 or 1. IT IS TOO SLOW, Too Vulnerable to flank and light swarms, Hit or Miss if left to fight on it's own at all. Shakes horribly and easily blined by weapons fire.

Edited by SaltBeef, 03 December 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

I just have to defend the Adder a bit, it is not in need of anything major. Really not. It has 16 available tonnage, that is like the small IS mediums, but it has the profile of a light with high mounted torso hardpoints. It's truly excellent at peek-a-booing and medium range skrimishing.

[Brody319]

Duke Nedo, on 03 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I just have to defend the Adder a bit, it is not in need of anything major. Really not. It has 16 available tonnage, that is like the small IS mediums, but it has the profile of a light with high mounted torso hardpoints. It's truly excellent at peek-a-booing and medium range skrimishing.

It could use some better omnipods to give it more loadout options, and some quirks to decrease heat. It doesn't need as much work as the Summoner, Lynx, or Ferret.

[Kain Demos]

Viktor Drake, on 03 December 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Adder just needs hard point inflating. 2 Pods, both adding 2 E to each arm would work.

Someone in another thread mentioned there are out-of-timeline configs of the Adder with 2E LT/RT.

Just give us those pods (timeline won't matter since it isn't the 'mech or the weapons that don't exist yet) and unlock the flamer.