156 replies to this topic

[SaltBeef]

I do not think they are going to leave the clans this way!.. they will be working on them. They did a good job with a lot of the IS mechs.. now some of the gimped clan mechs should be reworked. A few of the IS mechs still need some lovin. They, ( PGI ) play the mechs and they know which ones are crapsauce! I have see Paul I.in a Match before on the Public test server. plus they got lots of feedback.
Don't forget they have the Public test server the greatest tool for trying stuff out.

Edited by SaltBeef, 04 December 2014 - 03:38 AM.

[Revorn]

I wouldnt go for a Clan Nerf, but for future IS Buffs, Maybe make them a bit Tankier.

But if this is necessary, we will see with CW. Personaly, i expect many good wins for the Clans, because, i guess they are up Dammagewise. But we will see.

[Decoy3]

BOWMANGR, on 04 December 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

I still remember one guy arguing that IS XL engines are better because they may kill you instantly when destroyed but you do have customisationzomg while poor Clanners are still alive and kicking but they are gimped on Mechlab. Say what? Is MechlabTM a game? Can I score, gain C-bills and win by playing MechlabTM where IS is apparently better? *sigh

Anyone who has ever played a clan light might disagree with your unequivocal assertion that non-customisable engines are always better because of the two crits per side torso. Or the Summoner that wishes it could trade Ferro for Endo. I'm not saying clan XLs are bad, but I'm also not going to agree that the lack of customization is irrelevant.

Also, are you seriously arguing that the mechlab doesn't affect gameplay? Because this Atlas is obviously going to score just as well as this one.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think IS and Clans are fairly balanced as a whole, but...

I think we need to see a good Clan quirk pass. We need to get other Clan mechs close to the performance of the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow, then do one last reevaluation of the Clans as a whole to see if another Clan wide nerf is necessary.

Nerfing Clan mechs or tech now without a quirk pass seems like a bad idea. Let's try and get the Clan mechs close in performance (buff the underachievers), then scrutinize the entire Clan performance as a whole.

[TamerSA]

I also think that nothing can really be done before seeing how CW plays out. And I agree that nerfing the already average tech at this point is pointless. Either nerf the strong ones and get the weak ones on par, or do it the other way around.

Sounds like a good idea.

[LordKnightFandragon]

People want to endlessly nerf the clans because TT Clans are straight up better then IS in almost all aspects. Then, Paul, one of the devs said they wanted clans to be different, not better. So, this leads to the IS guys always viewing the Clans as OP, no matter how much nerfing is done to the Clans. Basically they are caught up in the Clans are OP from TT and cant get over the fact that here in MWO, they are not really OP, except for maybe a select few mechs. And of those, I would only vote the Timby and SCR are even remotely OP.

The Whale, while it can pack as much firepower as all the land armies of the Napoleonic era, its got 0 mobility, its massive and insanely easy to hit. The Whale is basically the WoT T34 of MWO: Mass focus on firepower, absolutely useless everything else. IMO: Makes it a very avg mech.....almost bad.

[Molossian Dog]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 December 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

...
I think we need to see a good Clan quirk pass. We need to get other Clan mechs close to the performance of the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow, then do one last reevaluation of the Clans as a whole to see if another Clan wide nerf is necessary.
...

This is what I was talking about. This will only spoil the clan players even more. And when the inevitable nerf will come the boards will be full of rage. Again.

Who ever defined Timberderp/Stormcrow level as "normal"? It is not.

[Necromonger Commander]

Its a game. In games both sides are supposed to be even. That is why they handicap the clans and quirk low tier mechs.

[Lily from animove]

its not about nerfing clans its about balance, some clan chassis, DWF, TBR and SCR are way too good to buff othes on their level, and just need a nerf for the sake of balance.

The only guys who think these chassis are ok are probably not good pilots now knowing how these chassis just can exceed others easily AND be reliable.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Necromonger Commander, on 04 December 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Its a game. In games both sides are supposed to be even. That is why they handicap the clans and quirk low tier mechs.

And yet we have Clans and IS on the same side...soooo.....there goes that arguement lol...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Molossian Dog, on 04 December 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

This is what I was talking about. This will only spoil the clan players even more. And when the inevitable nerf will come the boards will be full of rage. Again.

Who ever defined Timberderp/Stormcrow level as "normal"? It is not.

And you know what, maybe the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow may need to get knocked down a bit. Still, we need a Clan quirk pass first. We need to equalize all the chassis a bit more before we go changing or not changing things.

As for the forums being enraged...heck, what else is new. Ive seen a rant thread about the cockpit glass changing color on the Founders mechs when the Founders mechs adopted changeable colors. People will rage about anything.

Anyway, if the other Clan chassis were quirked, I think any small Clan wide adjustment would see less complaining than if PGI just nerfed the Clans again without a quirk pass.

[bluepiglet]

If someone does not want to see Clan get nerfed in general, they should ask PGI to fix TBR and SCR instead of blaming IS players.

[Molossian Dog]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 December 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

And you know what, maybe the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow may need to get knocked down a bit. Still, we need a Clan quirk pass first. We need to equalize all the chassis a bit more before we go changing or not changing things...

And the only viable approach is to buff everything to a level that is widely accepted as pure OP?

We have 3 chassis outdoing all others. Solution: Buff everything to the level of that minority?
Why? Why not the other way round?

If you ask me Step1 would be to finally fix the botched hitboxes, the JJ bug exploitation and void shields. When unintended advantages through bugs are eliminated, you can then re-evaluate the 3 outliers. What sense would it make to do that before? And after that look at clan tech as a whole.

BOWMANGR, on 04 December 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

... I still remember one guy arguing that IS XL engines are better because they may kill you instantly when destroyed but you do have customisationzomg while poor Clanners are still alive and kicking but they are gimped on Mechlab. Say what?...

lol yeah, I remember that conversation. UltimateX argued that because he was capable of building a bad Warhawk that didn´t make use use the inbuilt heat sinks, Clan engines were inferior. That eventually stopped. Only to be started all over in another thread.

A good time was had by all.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 04 December 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[TamerSA]

Thanks for the input bluepiglet.

I am not blaming IS players.... I am just asking why we should even consider nerfing Clans further when they have 3 viable chasis atm. This was sparked on because I still frequently see the request to nerf Clan tech (not just the strong mechs) in general on other topics.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Molossian Dog, on 04 December 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

And the only viable approach is to buff everything to a level that is widely accepted as pure OP?

We have 3 chassis outdoing all others. Solution: Buff everything to the level of that minority. Why not the other way round?


lol yeah, I remember that conversation. UltimateX argued that because he was capable of building a bad Warhawk that didn´t make use use the inbuilt heat sinks Clan engines were inferior. That eventually stopped. Only to be started all over in another thread.

A good time for all of us.

You have blinders on. Your only seeing what you want in my comments and then going off on that.

What I'm getting at is equalize their performance and then REEVALUATE THE PERFORMANCE AS A WHOLE. That doesn't mean QUIRK EVERYTHING AND LEAVE IT ALONE AND OP.

You can't nerf the Clan tech as a whole (like reduce the performance of the C-ERMLaser to make a Timber Wolf and Stormcrow less effective), because you will send underachievers even farther down the crapper.

All I'm getting at is hold off on nerfs until a quirk pass. Then address the tech and see where it is at. The quirk pass improves the underachievers and then maybe the tech can be addressed without butchering the lesser mechs further (without a quirk pass).

[Joseph Mallan]

TamerSA, on 03 December 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

Ok, before you jump on me I want to state that this is a very honest and serious question coming from a below average player who doesn't bother to number crunch or meta.

Not everybody wants the Clan Nerfed. I petitioned to keep them more of a challenge. But the soft gamers wanted fair and balanced. I wanted the uphill fight the Clan Invasion was written to be. I wanted to fight against the Clans best. I get watered 3:2 Beer instead.

[Anarcho]

Give the clans more PODS, and that is it. If a NOVA had some missile hardpoints, heat wouldnt be that much trouble anymore. Maybe some quirks IF the complete set of pods are used, like the tiny xp bonus. NOVA prime set complete? Here, take 9% heat decrease bonus, want to mix and match? No bonus for you. This way, meta people have more flexibility to workaround the bad points from clans, and lore people would have a bonus for using the stock setup.

[Kmieciu]

I don't believe there is an issue with TBR rear hitboxes. They have been tested and are quite huge. They register damage the same way IS mechs do.
The problem is that a stock 75ton Timberwolf has the agility (speed, turn speed and torso twist rate) of a stock 60ton Dragon/Quickdraw. No other IS heavy mechs can match it (due to engine size limitations), neither can the Victor (except P2W XL400 Dragon Slayer).
Simply put, TBR is so agile you'll never see it's RT anyway. That's why i put 2-4 points of armor in there.

Spoiler

Edited by Kmieciu, 04 December 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Timber needs a nerf, storm needs the hitboxes fix and all other clan mechs need a buff.

OVer all if you think its bad now wait for CW to start lol

[Molossian Dog]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 December 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

You have blinders on. Your only seeing what you want in my comments and then going off on that.

What I'm getting at is equalize their performance and then REEVALUATE THE PERFORMANCE AS A WHOLE. That doesn't mean QUIRK EVERYTHING AND LEAVE IT ALONE AND OP.

You can't nerf the Clan tech as a whole (like reduce the performance of the C-ERMLaser to make a Timber Wolf and Stormcrow less effective), because you will send underachievers even farther down the crapper.

All I'm getting at is hold off on nerfs until a quirk pass. Then address the tech and see where it is at. The quirk pass improves the underachievers and then maybe the tech can be addressed without butchering the lesser mechs further (without a quirk pass).

Isn´t it quite amusing that I´m tempted to accuse you of the same? Blinders.
I didn´t say a word about a clan tech wide nerf.

The part you were missing or ignoring was that the quirk pass you speak about is all about improving the underachievers.
I was talking about nerfing the overachievers.

After some serious bug fixes. Which might go a long way of bringing the overachievers in line.