Lrm Artemis Still Worth It?
#1
Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:34 PM
after 100 patches and changes, is it still worth it to use artemis on 3x lrm20 launchers for mostly indirect fire or better 1x lrm5 + lrm20 without?
Wehre can I find the actual stants of artemis again?
Cheers
No1337
#2
Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:41 PM
#3
Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:48 PM
#4
Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:55 PM
#5
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:31 PM
http://mwo.gamepedia.../Artemis_IV_FCS
#6
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:31 PM
#8
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:32 PM
Edited by Diznitch, 05 December 2014 - 06:33 PM.
#9
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:32 PM
tag basically does the same thing for only 1 ton
#10
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:40 PM
Diznitch, on 05 December 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:
Damm I thought that too . I guess im wrong :/
EDIT:
Still I dont think its a waste. I had better results with artemis then without.
Edited by deadmedo, 05 December 2014 - 06:49 PM.
#11
Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:52 PM
I think the lock speed is always, but i'm not sure.
Regardless the tighter spread is the more useful bonus.
Artemis is iffy on usefulness, if you have 3+ launchers, or only fire indirectly its basically a horrible waste.
see my lrm guide book for info on when and when not artemis is useful.
#12
Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:12 PM
Khobai, on 05 December 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:
tag basically does the same thing for only 1 ton
Some mechs don't have the extra energy hard point. And if you only have a single launcher, then Artemis is only 1 extra ton anyway. Also, tag doesn't help SRMs.
Looking at YOU, Zeus!
Edited by Golden Vulf, 05 December 2014 - 07:12 PM.
#13
Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:13 PM
zortesh, on 05 December 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:
This.
There was a dev post about it waaay back. Some of the tech negates each other - i.e. TAG bonuses do not stack with artemis with LOS, or some such.
Time to test my search-fu.
Edit: here we go:
EDIT4:
Ok, here are the numbers, methinks. From the below thread:
https://mwomercs.com...rc-and-artemis/
As I recall, Gauvan's SCIENCE! seems to ring true from the elusive command post I'm basing this off. The command post had a pictoral representation of missile arcs and the like, discussed missile arcs from direct and indirect positions, and provided some numbers. Buggered if I can find it though. Anyhoo:
Gauvan, on 20 October 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:
Artemis is a Missile-related upgrade found in the mechlab upgrades menu. Adding Artemis to a mech changes all LRMs and SRMs on the mech to a new type (LRM + Artemis and SRM + Artemis). Artemis has no effect on SSRMs. [Or, at least, it shouldn't. I belive there is a low priority bug that reduces SSRM lock-on time when Artemis is installed.]
Artemis Missile systems weigh one more ton and require one more critical slot to fit. They also require Artemis ammo--this should be the only ammo type presented if Artemis is installed. Artemis ammo weighs the same as non-Artemis.
Artemis provides a benefit to the firing mech similar to the effects of a Narc’d target. Artemis projectiles are more tightly clustered and so deliver more damage to the target (this affects SRMs as well). The spread of Artemis Missile weapons is 75% that of normal. Targeting time and target decay are reduced [need to verify this ]. However, the Artemis effect is only included when the mech with Artemis has line-of-sight with the target themselves. Indirect fire using a team member’s line-of-sight does not benefit from Artemis.
How Artemis, Narc, and TAG interact
Artemis, Narc, and TAG (described fully in the Energy article) all provide benefits that relate to targeting and the use of Missile weapons. These three systems interact in the follow ways:
- Artemis and TAG effects stack. Artemis and Narc do not stack.
- TAG and Artemis effects stack. TAG and Narc effects stack.
- Narc and TAG effects stack. Narc and Artemis do not stack.
MWO calculates stacked negative bonuses by multiplying the percentage effects and applying the result. If three bonuses affect the same thing, and one provides a -40% effect, the second a -20% effect, the last a -10% effect, the total effect is a -56.8% reduction.
The math works like this. A -40% bonus reduces the thing to 60%, a -20% bonus reduces it to 80%, and a -10% bonus reduces it to 90%. 60% * 80% * 90% = 43.2%. Subtracting this from 100% gives the combined effect (100% - 43.2% = 56.8%).
Positive bonuses are added then applied. A +40%, +20% and +10% set of bonuses result in a +70% effect.
So, for Artemis, Narc and TAG:
Artemis + TAG:
- Time to lock onto target: (50% + 50%): 25% of normal
- Missile spread: (67% + 75%): 50.3% of normal
- Time to lock onto target: (50% + 75%): 62.5% of normal
- Missile spread: (75% + 75%): 56.3% of normal
So there you have it.
The above bit doesn't mention missile tracking however, which is also strengthened by TAG and Artemis:
Quote
MISSILE TRACKING BONUS WITH TAG, NARC and ArtemisIV
Tracking helps missiles retain lock on a target. It helps a little with stationary targets but it is mainly used to control the hit % on moving targets.
It follows the same rules as above with weapon lock time.
TAG and NARC work together.
TAG and ArtemisIV (with line of sight) work together.
ArtemisIV trumps NARC.
So:
Both Artemis and TAG decrease missile spread by themselves, and significantly when used together. Artemis and TAG also increase missile tracking by themselves (Artemis requires LOS for this) and stack when used together.
So HECK YES, Artemis is worth it, but most of the bonuses require LOS.
Edited by Kiiyor, 05 December 2014 - 08:04 PM.
#14
Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:59 AM
Diznitch, on 05 December 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:
This is a necro and a half, but... didn't see the answer actually given.
Tracking strength (for those being directed to it) is the frequency the missile will make course corrections. If the missile normally makes 8 course corrections, an additional 50% tracking strength gives it 12 course corrections.
#15
Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:20 AM
no1337, on 05 December 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:
after 100 patches and changes, is it still worth it to use artemis on 3x lrm20 launchers for mostly indirect fire or better 1x lrm5 + lrm20 without?
Wehre can I find the actual stants of artemis again?
Cheers
No1337
For mostly indirect fire...nope. Not worth it. Artemis does nothing without direct LOS to the target. More ammo would suit you better for dealing more damage per match than Artemis for "mostly" indirect fire.
Also are the launchers clan or I.S. tech?
With the lighter and smaller clan tech options you have a great deal more "wiggle" room to use artemis than with the bulky I.S. tech.
These days with another round of LRM nerfs and Artemis nerfs... I would reconsider using LRMs at all at this point if you are a primarily an I.S. mech pilot. The Clans can still use them due to having the capacity to mount a good number of LRM tubes and still have considerable direct fire weapons as well. But if you are a Clan pilot...ATMs!
"ArtemisIV will always replace any bonuses from NARC. Even if Artemis does not have line of sight."
This bit of info taken from a dev post on LRM mechnaics is another point against Aretmis use if you are primarily using indirect fire.
What this means is since Artemis requires LOS to grant ANY bonus the bonuses NARC would have given you are replaced with the Artemis bonuses and then negated if you have no direct LOS.
So if you have Artemis you will never have either Artemis or NARC bonuses for indirect fire.
Essentially a NARC'ed target targeted indirectly by an Artemis LRM launcher will only gain the benefit of the target feed from the attached NARC and not the lock speed or spread bonuses from either Artemis or NARC.
Edited by Lykaon, 23 October 2017 - 11:30 AM.
#17
Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:34 PM
#18
Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:40 PM
Without I did alot of dmg, but got no kills. Spreads damage way too much.
With Artemis, I can get alot more kills, and do triple the dmg.
#19
Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:43 PM
zortesh, on 05 December 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:
I think the lock speed is always, but i'm not sure.
Regardless the tighter spread is the more useful bonus.
Artemis is iffy on usefulness, if you have 3+ launchers, or only fire indirectly its basically a horrible waste.
see my lrm guide book for info on when and when not artemis is useful.
Yeah that's what I thought, it doesn't directly decrease spread, rather it alters the flight path in a way that makes the missiles hit more effectively, which is basically spread but slightly better?
#20
Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:03 PM
Shifty McSwift, on 23 October 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:
Yeah that's what I thought, it doesn't directly decrease spread, rather it alters the flight path in a way that makes the missiles hit more effectively, which is basically spread but slightly better?
It increases tracking strength (how well the missiles follow the target, I.E. number of hits) AND reduces spread (how tightly-grouped the missiles are, I.E. how many hit the same component instead of spreading the hits around the 'mech).
They nerfed the spread-reducing property of it, but it's still there. And as far as LRMs are concerned, less spread is always better. Always.
Artemis' usefulness for SRMs is now dubious, but in the neverending quest to make your LRMs suck less and be less of a liability for your team, ANY spread reduction is good spread reduction. Artemis + TAG on big launchers puts in some work.
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