90 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Vassago Rain, on 07 December 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

I like it when extra credits is quoted, because it's always by people who ignore the obvious, like a mute button.

You ever used voice that doesn't have a mute button? Me neither.

One of the Call of Duties in the recent past didn't have a mute button for a while, and its absence was horrific.
And, as you point out, the response was basically, "WTF, Who makes a game without the ability to mute other players?"

[Vassago Rain]

Gattsus, on 07 December 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

The thing is, and I fear you missed the point in their argument, that when someone clicks mute, that's a single person saying: I don't like what I hear. When statistics are used, and implemented they way they mention, it means that there is a community trying to make a point, which is quite different.

I would argue that the main point, in general, is how to enable community moderation of harassment, which may be is easier, cheaper and automatic. For example, although not exactly the same, the management of TKers in MWO is atrocious. You have to send an email to support, wait for their answer and you never hear from them again if you don't poke them a bit. The automation of this process, for example an in-game report button which in turn aggregates statistics about a single user, could be a more elegant and general option. Obviously, it can be abused like everything, but great powers come with big responsibility, and I hope we can reflect that we're an in general, more mature audience.

Dude, plz.

Voice chat isn't new. It's not serious business.

If they add voice chat to MWO, or they put it on steam so you can use steam's voice chat, then old men everywhere will be yelling in chat when they see ultimate golden battlemasters with triple SRM2s and a single ER PPC.

That's how life works. You mute people who mic spam, and everybody else is of very little concern.

Social justice warriors like extra credits, who portray themselves as talking down to their audience from above a podium, are the ones who truly need to be muted and ignored.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 December 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Gattsus, on 08 December 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Without casting doubt about your comment, I fear that not everyone has that chance. It is not a reason to accept this behaviour, because not all he members of this community "know how to deal with it", and they shouldn't.

I think videogames may be a bit too hardcore for you, as you clearly have problems dealing with people who get mad, and feel that someone losing their temper and threatening to come to your house and beating you up will follow through with it.

It's good that once they do add voice to the game, they'll have a mute button, so you don't have to put up with old men who get angry and complain very loudly in the microphone...

[bobF]

Vassago Rain, on 08 December 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Social justice warriors like extra credits, who portray themselves as talking down to their audience from above a podium, are the ones who truly need to be muted and ignored.

So much this.

Can the concerned citizen-nannies and good behavior crusaders please **** off already. This is a video game, nothing is at stake here; if you really feel someone's online feelings are that sacred then you're simply too weak to live in this reality.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gattsus, on 08 December 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Without casting doubt about your comment, I fear that not everyone has that chance. It is not a reason to accept this behaviour, because not all he members of this community "know how to deal with it", and they shouldn't.

Point is the likelihood that Lil Billy will come and kill you in your sleep are astronomically low and frankly if you take it to heart that much you may wanna stay indoors and never interact with people. Cause on a weekly basis I hear threats... every other day give or take. Then again I live within 30 minutes of Detroit.

And yes, everyone SHOULD know how to deal with it. It is the best step to not being a victim!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 December 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 08 December 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Dude, plz.

Voice chat isn't new. It's not serious business.

If they add voice chat to MWO, or they put it on steam so you can use steam's voice chat, then old men everywhere will be yelling in chat when they see ultimate golden battlemasters with triple SRM2s and a single ER PPC.

That's how life works. You mute people who mic spam, and everybody else is of very little concern.

Social justice warriors like extra credits, who portray themselves as talking down to their audience from above a podium, are the ones who truly need to be muted and ignored.

Funny, I thought it was the Young Pups trying to be cool who do the most yelling and ranting! I hang with a fairly well aged group of players, some with PTSD. and we hardly ever "Lose our cool" on Comms.

[Molossian Dog]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 December 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

I would be careful of those who promote Ochloracy or mob rule. ...

Oligarchy has brought us far.

That being said in this specific case I agree with you. Nothing is more disgusting than sanctioned and organized mobbing.

Let people make their own decisions. Like with deciding if to hit the mute button or not.

-----------------------------------------

While Extra Credits has some good ideas I very much dislike the first video above.
"If anyone is more than 10% above the norm..."

The hell? What kind of attitude is that? Do-gooder Godwin´s law?

Edited by Molossian Dog, 08 December 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 December 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Funny, I thought it was the Young Pups trying to be cool who do the most yelling and ranting! I hang with a fairly well aged group of players, some with PTSD. and we hardly ever "Lose our cool" on Comms.

Oh god, no.

Kids just do the usual whining and baseless threats in their teenage voices. When my guys see that last pubbie who's running a ridiculous standard 150 cent AH with triple machineguns and LRM45, the world blows up.

Also fighting games. Fighting games are 50% salt and mad.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 08 December 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Oh god, no.

Kids just do the usual whining and baseless threats in their teenage voices. When my guys see that last pubbie who's running a ridiculous standard 150 cent AH with triple machineguns and LRM45, the world blows up.

Also fighting games. Fighting games are 50% salt and mad.

That seems low by the way folks on the forum make it sound!

[MoonUnitBeta]

Brody319, on 07 December 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

seriously, a mute button is pretty much all we need. most games have started adding it because of how useful it is.

Ah, yes. This is exactly my point why in-game voip is going to change absolutely nothing at all!
I find it funny, people demand, "we need in-game voip for better communication and commanding!".
But for those who don’t want it, you can mute it or turn it off? Wait… isn’t that counterproductive? Implementing a system just to have it undone? Wasn’t the whole point supposed to guide the entire team to victory? A month later, and only 4 people will probably use in-game voip? Gosh, kinda sounds like how it works right now… only the people who want it, use it…

I know a fair amount of people that would prefer to use third party programs. Why?

• It’s often better quality.
  
• It’s closed to only the people they’re playing with (so joking around, casual talk, etc doesn’t bother other players that aren’t part of your “group”)
  
• They can mute, kick, or ban players from it.
  
• There’s already a basic understanding and respect that comes with being allowed the privilege to use a server.
  
• You can talk about the team that you’re on without talking to them.
  
• You can be a leader of a small group (instead of the whole pug), or you can listen to relevant information (because you are a closed group working together on one goal, instead of trying to herd cats)
  
• 12 man voip games exist under the premise and common understanding that there are 1-3 leaders to help guide them to victory. The rest of the team understands how each other players. The rest of the team understands that they are to follow orders. Try and get that kind of willingness and understanding from a 12man pug match…

The type of situation that most people are thinking of when they promote voip is things like, “incoming kappa, fall back E6 and defend”, “all sights on Echo”, “lights: break and cap”, “LRM’s lock Golf”
You know, tactical situational stuff like that to make communicating easier.

But we cannot forget other stuff that will drive most people to turn voip off instantly and render it completely obsolete, such as:

Bad microphone etiquette:

• *heavy breathing*
  
• *chewing*
  
• *drinking*
  
• *coughing*
  
• *snorting*
  
• *throat clearing*
  
• *mics set to voice activation, but ambient noise has it continually on*
  
• *DJ’ing your crappy music*

Shouting:

• “OMG! GET OUT OF MY WAYa. MOVE!”

Voice clutter:

• “OMG there’s so many there! Eaahhh!!! Ahhahahahah! Wee!”
  
• “OH AHHAHA! Did you see that?!!”

Demanding:

• “Stop blocking my shots!”
  
• “kill this guy!”

Put-downs:

• “thanks for the help… NOOBS.”
  
• “Wow. What a ****** team.”
  
• “You guys suck.”

Back seat driving:

• (dead) “use thermal ____.”
  
• (dead) “why aren’t you using thermal, ____?”
  
• (dead) “Unlock your arms ____! Walk backwards when he’s circling you…”
  
• (dead) “man this guy is so bad"

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 08 December 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Rick Rawlings]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 December 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

quote...

I get what you are saying and if it weren't for the fact that you're wrong, you'd be totally right, In Red Orchestra 2, there are 32 people on a team. (32!!) Maybe 6-10 of them are talking. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but even when I don't, I am listening, as are the other 21-25 people and things get done or not done according to those instructions. I would guess that the mechwarrior crowd is of a similar age and temperment to those people. And if someone does go all jackhole on you, guess what happens? Three or four clicks later and you can't even tell when that person is saying anything,
cause they're muted. 4 people cooperating in a pug game through coms is better than no people cooperating, even if you decide to tune out. Besides if you want to opt out, just do so. You could have talked about wasted development time and resources, increased net traffic or whatever, but you didn't, so your whole argument so far is "I'm not interested in this so no one else should have it too..." That's like wasting lasers on an empty escape pod, because everyone knows we get charged by the laser now...

[Molossian Dog]

If there only would be something like...a button...
A button we could press when we want to talk to the whole team.

That would be awesome.

Sadly that technology is still decades ahead.

[Vassago Rain]

Rick Rawlings, on 08 December 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

I get what you are saying and if it weren't for the fact that you're wrong, you'd be totally right, In Red Orchestra 2, there are 32 people on a team. (32!!) Maybe 6-10 of them are talking. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but even when I don't, I am listening, as are the other 21-25 people and things get done or not done according to those instructions. I would guess that the mechwarrior crowd is of a similar age and temperment to those people. And if someone does go all jackhole on you, guess what happens? Three or four clicks later and you can't even tell when that person is saying anything,
cause they're muted. 4 people cooperating in a pug game through coms is better than no people cooperating, even if you decide to tune out. Besides if you want to opt out, just do so. You could have talked about wasted development time and resources, increased net traffic or whatever, but you didn't, so your whole argument so far is "I'm not interested in this so no one else should have it too..." That's like wasting lasers on an empty escape pod, because everyone knows we get charged by the laser now...

His main point is that OUTSIDE THIRD PARTY CHATS ARE BETTER!!!!!!! but you can't get random pubs on those third party chats, so it's a worthless argument.

[Dimento Graven]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 December 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Point is the likelihood that Lil Billy will come and kill you in your sleep are astronomically low and frankly if you take it to heart that much you may wanna stay indoors and never interact with people. Cause on a weekly basis I hear threats... every other day give or take. Then again I live within 30 minutes of Detroit.

And yes, everyone SHOULD know how to deal with it. It is the best step to not being a victim!

Don't forget a lot of these people have grown up in a generation where bringing an asprin in to school will get you expelled, drawing a picture of a gun will get you expelled, and where 'making someone feel bad' is considered a mortal sin.

Sometimes... Sometimes we DO deserve to be yelled at. Doing stupid things repeatedly usually requires 'turning up the volume' to get dense people to stop.

Anyway, god help us against those damned Generation X'ers and beyond...

[MoonUnitBeta]

Rick Rawlings, on 08 December 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

quote

You had a good experience with a game using voice chat? Congrats! But, yeah sorry, that doesn’t make me wrong? But your pitiful summary of my post just shows me that you completely misunderstood my post all together.

I never said “I’m not interested in it so no one should have it too…”.
I think it’ll be great if works out. But my point in my previous post is that people on these forums have in-game voip fixed in their head as an end-all be-all solution to team play. It’s not. It won’t be. Sorry. You can’t achieve that if half the team isn’t even listening. I told you why most people will be turning it off. I know too many people that simply turn it off as soon as they find out it’s a feature. People who already use and prefer 3^rd party programs will automatically turn off the feature to avoid cross-chatter.

If people talking in MWO’s chat is any indication to how they’re going to talk in voice chat, you can guarantee that I’m turning it off, as with most people. I know a few people that have zero tolerance for any of the examples I’ve listed above. I don’t need lip smackers and big talkers telling me that I suck, or hearing some exasperated sigh because he died, or a spectator trying to talk me through my life problems. I’ve encountered more worse experiences with voice chat than I have good ones, and that’s just listening both in-game and 3^rd party.

And what about new players? They’re already talked down in typed chat, can you image when you give the right people the power to ACTUALLY CONTROL THE NEW PLAYER THROUGH HIS EARS?! Those back seat drivers are ganna have a hay day on those poor new people, “back up! Do this! Do that! No! Yes! Kill him! Get his CT! His CT! Shoot his CT! OMG! His CT not his leg! CT!!!” ho-lee-sheet. Give me a break. No thank you. Not even once man.

What do you mean I didn’t talk about wasted development? A feature that hardly gets used kinda of conveys that, dontchathink? I just hope they put off voip development as long as they can.
What do you mean I didn’t talk about increased net traffic? It’s not going to be an issue because the MWO population is relatively small, and my presumption is that a very small percentage will have it muted, or continue using 3^rd party programs.
Does it need to be spelled out for you?

In your argument, all you have going for you is, “if 4 people use it, it’s better than nothing.” And that’s all I can partially agree with.

Vassago Rain, on 08 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

His main point is that OUTSIDE THIRD PARTY CHATS ARE BETTER!!!!!!! but you can't get random pubs on those third party chats, so it's a worthless argument.

It wasn't even that.
It's about the amount of people that disable the voice chat because no one wants to hear the garbage that comes with it.
DId you totally skip this part?

Bad microphone etiquette:

• *heavy breathing*
  
• *chewing*
  
• *drinking*
  
• *coughing*
  
• *snorting*
  
• *throat clearing*
  
• *mics set to voice activation, but ambient noise has it continually on*
  
• *DJ’ing your crappy music*

Shouting:

• “OMG! GET OUT OF MY WAYa. MOVE!”

Voice clutter:

• “OMG there’s so many there! Eaahhh!!! Ahhahahahah! Wee!”
  
• “OH AHHAHA! Did you see that?!!”

Demanding:

• “Stop blocking my shots!”
  
• “kill this guy!”

Put-downs:

• “thanks for the help… NOOBS.”
  
• “Wow. What a ****** team.”
  
• “You guys suck.”

Back seat driving:

• (dead) “use thermal ____.”
  
• (dead) “why aren’t you using thermal, ____?”
  
• (dead) “Unlock your arms ____! Walk backwards when he’s circling you…”
  
• (dead) “man this guy is so bad"

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 08 December 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 December 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

...

Back seat driving:

• (dead) "use thermal ____."
  
• (dead) "why aren't you using thermal, ____?"
  
• (dead) "Unlock your arms ____! Walk backwards when he's circling you..."
  
• (dead) "man this guy is so bad"

Yeah well, constructive criticism is sometimes necessary. I actually wish to hell MORE people would do this, it might help accelerate the improvement of skill in the game.

[Rick Rawlings]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 December 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I never said “I’m not interested in it so no one should have it too…”.

Yes, you did. And your last post was just so many ways of saying it again. Don't want it? Turn it off. Let the people who seem to be able to navigate your non-problems have a very useful tool for puging...

[MoonUnitBeta]

Dimento Graven, on 08 December 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yeah well, constructive criticism is sometimes necessary. I actually wish to hell MORE people would do this, it might help accelerate the improvement of skill in the game.

Oh man lol… I hope you really don’t see barking at people how to play the game in any chat medium as CONSTRUCTIVE. You’ve seen my examples… those aren’t constructive. Sometimes, you don’t need criticism any more, and you just play how you want to play. Some games I just take flight and do w/e I want, but then I get people breathing down my neck because I’m not going to B4 to snipe that one mech that’s cored. Just leave me alone. It’s 5 vs 1 and all I have is a small laser.

Everyone plays differently. Everyone learns at a different pace.
Heckling players for not playing how YOU play is not behaviour I’m about to endorse. Sorry.

[Dimento Graven]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 December 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Oh man lol… I hope you really don’t see barking at people how to play the game in any chat medium as CONSTRUCTIVE. You’ve seen my examples… those aren’t constructive. Sometimes, you don’t need criticism any more, and you just play how you want to play. Some games I just take flight and do w/e I want, but then I get people breathing down my neck because I’m not going to B4 to snipe that one mech that’s cored. Just leave me alone. It’s 5 vs 1 and all I have is a small laser.

Everyone plays differently. Everyone learns at a different pace.
Heckling players for not playing how YOU play is not behaviour I’m about to endorse. Sorry.

Hmm... Guess it's just me then.

When playing with my own unit, I often receive a shot of "Dimento XXXXX", 'XXXXX' being something I'm forgetting to do, or haven't realized, or was being stupid about.

I appreciate those times. Sometimes in my efforts to score more towards the Guillotine achievement I get 'tunnel visioned', or maybe I'm not making use of optimal play.

If what is being yelled at me is appropriate to the situation, I appreciate it. If not, a simple '**** off!' is all that's necessary to shut 'em up.

But, maybe my experience in playing with my own peer group is not normal in this game...

[Master Pain]

mwo is literally the only multiplayer game i have played in the last 15 years that doesnt have ingame voice communication.